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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
As promised a SPOLIER heavy look at the Empire DOS Issue, needless to say those 'appendices' are more detailed then I remeber...
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arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 1:42pm

Post #26 of 253 (1210 views)
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Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently the same article suggests she is a "ninja killing machine", suggests she pronounces Sindarin well, and suggests she revives an injured human woman in Laketown. Sounds like a reasonable Elf character to me...arguments about Elf females fighting aside. (Her role is to be in the King's Guard, after all).


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:44pm

Post #27 of 253 (1243 views)
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That was my main fear with Three films of the hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

By trying to hard to make verything cinematic and epic, they would overshadow and convulute the simple story, rendering its tone and purpose out of sync with the visuals on screen. If I'm honest...that ha already partially happened.

If PJ just added 'Peter Jackson's interpretation of The Hobbit by JRR Tolkien' in the opeing credits I'd be fine, but I guess that isn't as catchy as 'its all in the appendices'.

Hopefully though in six hours remaining screen time the talking purse will get his moment...Wink

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Finrod
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 1:46pm

Post #28 of 253 (1195 views)
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Mothers and Fathers [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Fathers and sons is a big theme in the film, it will examine the Bond between Throrin and Thrain in great detail, there is a flashback to his dissapearance outisde Moria, they will explore the 'complicated' issues between Legolas and Thranduil. Bolg IS the son/spawn of Azog,


Fathers, fine, but what about the mothers?

Where is Legolas’s mother?

Where is Fíli and Kíli’s mother?

Where is Tauriel’s mother?

Where is Bolg’s mother?

Is it possible that some of those ladies are the same person?

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 26 2013, 1:46pm

Post #29 of 253 (1181 views)
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I agree that it has already partially happened [In reply to] Can't Post

But some of what did come from the book was so wonderfully done that I can largely forgive the excess. So far. That is why I continue to reserve judgment.

Now I return to my SCOTUS vigil.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:48pm

Post #30 of 253 (1118 views)
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Thank you about my essay [In reply to] Can't Post

You are one of approximately a dozen people who have read the whole thing!

I did consider submitting a shortended version to the Symporium...then I realised my intro was almost the 2000 word limit on its own...

Its Ironic 'The Quest for Erebor' would have suited these films much more than 'The Hobbit'.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


DanielLB
Immortal


Jun 26 2013, 1:51pm

Post #31 of 253 (1136 views)
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Thanks for posting this malickfan :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

If anything, I'm very intrigued by the spoilers they've decided to give us. They're definitely spoilers that are going to get people talking (rather than boring obvious ones we usually get).

As others have rightly said, I'll reserve judgment until I've see the film.


Quote
'This will probably get me struck off The One Ring party list but I am enjoying deviating from the book'


Ian McKellen recently suggested that DOS is PJ's favourite Middle-earth film (so far). I wonder if this is the reason - because he has been able to expand beyond that of what is originally written.

A future adaptation must include the purse! Wink


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 26 2013, 1:51pm

Post #32 of 253 (1194 views)
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About Tauriel... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. 300 year old ELF.

2. Rose through the Ranks
to become Captain of the Guard.
(Could that have been through a Body Count?)

3. She must show some Other-Worldly skills.

Did you think she would be portrayed as
Clumsy?

PJ stated each character will have their Hero Moment.

"All PJ has to decide, is How?... with the time given to him."

After ALL is shown, then... we get to decide.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jun 26 2013, 1:53pm

Post #33 of 253 (1182 views)
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Darker, more serious mood? Netter Smaug confrontation? Me happy! [In reply to] Can't Post

Everything in this article looks extremel
Thank God the (too) lighter tone is gone forever.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:53pm

Post #34 of 253 (1178 views)
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I wouldn't be surprised if they used the storyline of Elrond's wife and applied it to Legolas's mother [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be a logical idea to flesh out his story if his mother was kidnapped by the Necromancer-there is nothing to say it didn't happen.

Isn't fili and kil's mother Thorin's sister? They din't even mention they were Thorin's nephews in the film, so I guess that's extended cut stuff.

Who knows perhaps Bolg is Legolas's mother...

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malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:59pm

Post #35 of 253 (1143 views)
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I take it you read the hobbit (if you read it) after LOTR? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Everything in this article looks extremel
Thank God the (too) lighter tone is gone forever



My probelm with the light moments in AUJ was more to do with PJ's sense of humour thatn the tone of the book. I have read almost all of Tolkien's writings about M.E and I like that The Hobbit is whimsy and not bogged down with 'drama' and meandering prose and complex history, though I agree it's more approriate to get darker as the film progresses.

If Bombur in the Enchanted River and Roac make it in then I'll be happy with the changes...


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 26 2013, 2:01pm

Post #36 of 253 (1100 views)
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I think both will be in [In reply to] Can't Post

We've seen pictures of Bombur being carried, and there has already been a heavy emphasis on the birds, including ravens.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 2:02pm

Post #37 of 253 (1142 views)
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Legolas' mother [In reply to] Can't Post

While I agree that generically, it could make sense to use Celebrian's story for Legolas' mother instead, it does not seem to fit with what we have already been given about the Elves in DoS. (Specifically, dialogue which suggests Legolas and his father are isolationist, while Tauriel is urging more active involvement in the world's affairs.) Such a compelling cause for vengeance against the Necromancer/Orcs would seem more likely to produce the opposite attitude. (As in the books, with Elladan and Elrohir always eager to battle Orcs).


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 2:04pm

Post #38 of 253 (1069 views)
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But will Roac Talk? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ravens can mimic human speeach in real life, so its hardly a strech to expand this a little in the film. It would be a bit of a shame if the only sentient animals in the film are 'the bad guys'.

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namarie
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 2:07pm

Post #39 of 253 (1090 views)
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I guess PJs strategy could be [In reply to] Can't Post

Shock and Awe and Conquer Laugh


"The world is not in your books and maps. It's out there!"

"Such is the nature of evil. In time all foul things come forth."


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 26 2013, 2:07pm

Post #40 of 253 (1078 views)
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I hope so [In reply to] Can't Post

But I doubt it.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jun 26 2013, 2:26pm

Post #41 of 253 (1065 views)
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sounds pretty much more and more like a Warhammer fantasy film -___-. [In reply to] Can't Post

All I really want is a perfectly developed and lovable Bilbo plot, at the CORE of these films. I hope to Eru that PJ will do that, as so far it's looking chaotically iffy.

"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________




Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 26 2013, 2:32pm

Post #42 of 253 (1055 views)
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Thanks for this, malickfan! [In reply to] Can't Post

This quote in particular was interesting to me -


Quote
'Jackson has always felt the book lacked a definte confrontation between the dwarves and Smaug. He's rectified that. There will be bombs, inferanl artillery, and one mightily pissed off dragon. 'It gets pretty crazy'.


I've thought for quite a while that the confrontation between the dwarves and Smaug would be bigger than it is in the book. I'm even more confident, now, that Smaug's death will be saved until film 3 and that the dwarves vs. Smaug will be the climax of DOS (possibly with some sort of Dol Guldor climax as well). I am not sure how I feel about bombs and artillery, though.

There are a few things in here that I like, but lots of it looks like drivel.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 26 2013, 2:36pm

Post #43 of 253 (1082 views)
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Bombs and Infernal Artillery [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably just refers to Smaug's fire-breathing capabilities


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 26 2013, 2:47pm

Post #44 of 253 (1017 views)
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I hope so [In reply to] Can't Post

But really, I don't think that's likely.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jun 26 2013, 3:08pm

Post #45 of 253 (1035 views)
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I bet he's stretching the bit where 2 dwarves watching the ponies get into a pickle when Smaug exits the mountain after confronting Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

Was it Bofur and Bombur? Bifur and Bombur? I don't remember, but I bet the other dwarves will have to figure out a way to distract the dragon as they pull the others up the cliff and into the secret door. Perhaps this will involve some sort of dwarven "artillery", though I'm crossing my fingers for it just being a reference to Smaug's napalm breath.

To be honest, I don't think it would significantly alter the plot, but it would certainly create a very suspenseful scene, the type which PJ seems to favor.

Edit: it would also give the filmmakers the opportunity to create a face-to-muzzle encounter between Thorin and Smaug which Armitage hinted at in an interview once.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951

(This post was edited by Aitieuriskon on Jun 26 2013, 3:10pm)


adnan
Rivendell


Jun 26 2013, 3:15pm

Post #46 of 253 (986 views)
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Wow... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am really liking what I read, I am no purist and am proud of that. All these embellishments sounds like it will be an epic last two parts!! Really excited to see the finished product.

Rivendell


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 26 2013, 3:28pm

Post #47 of 253 (968 views)
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Yep, that's what I've been expecting. [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably Balin's line from the trailer ("That, my lads, was a dragon.") will be the kick off to the big action climax for the dwarves and Smaug.

I don't think it's going to significantly alter the plot either, and it's one of the changes that I can get behind (if done well). But as Voronwe said up-thread, it has the potential to overshadow Bilbo's encounter with Smaug. So as of right now, this is one change I'm cautiously optimistic about.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Elessar
Valinor


Jun 26 2013, 3:43pm

Post #48 of 253 (965 views)
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Sounds great [In reply to] Can't Post

It sounds as if it will continue to keep the spirit of The Hobbit but also add some interesting additions. This is something I don't mind when I feel the two work together. I'm very excited to get my copy of the magazine via my iPad but even more excited to see this movie.



joec_34
Rivendell

Jun 26 2013, 4:06pm

Post #49 of 253 (908 views)
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I like your thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Was it Bofur and Bombur? Bifur and Bombur? I don't remember, but I bet the other dwarves will have to figure out a way to distract the dragon as they pull the others up the cliff and into the secret door. Perhaps this will involve some sort of dwarven "artillery", though I'm crossing my fingers for it just being a reference to Smaug's napalm breath.

To be honest, I don't think it would significantly alter the plot, but it would certainly create a very suspenseful scene, the type which PJ seems to favor.

Edit: it would also give the filmmakers the opportunity to create a face-to-muzzle encounter between Thorin and Smaug which Armitage hinted at in an interview once.


When I read the bit about the dwarves confronting Smaug, I was really worried that it would interfere significantly with the events at the Lonely Mountain. However, your thoughts have given me hope that Bilbo may still be the only party member to face Smaug inside the mountain. I think a battle with Smaug on the outside of the mountain may be interesting, and certainly seems fitting for movie Thorin.

"Happy painting and God bless, my friend." - Bob Ross


sycorax82
Rohan

Jun 26 2013, 4:11pm

Post #50 of 253 (909 views)
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I like the sound of all of this. If you're gonna change things, why not go for it in a big way? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with PJ that the Dwarves deserve a proper face-off against Smaug, which Tolkien didn't really include (they just hide from him).

I can't wait to see what they do i regards to Thrain. It really is the missing piece of the puzzle from AUJ.

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