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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
As promised a SPOLIER heavy look at the Empire DOS Issue, needless to say those 'appendices' are more detailed then I remeber...
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malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 9:46am

Post #1 of 253 (6425 views)
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As promised a SPOLIER heavy look at the Empire DOS Issue, needless to say those 'appendices' are more detailed then I remeber... Can't Post

Being a subscriber I was lucky enough to receive the issue through the post just now. I am writing this at a bit a rush so I'm not sure if this post will make much sense!!. Anyway most of the spoilers seem to be along the lines of what we have gussed, but there are a few new tidbits, and it is very clear Jackson is not making a hobbit film per se. And yes Legolas most defintely has much more than a cameo

Legolas will seemingily have his 'hero moments' like in the trilogy, but none are specified, Bloom was concerned about returning, but says his role makes 'sense'.
, he is slightly less worldly and more dwarf adverse. 'One of the many explorations DOS makes beneath the twee exterior of The Hobbit is to account for Legolas's subsequent departure from his homeland in Mirkwood'-that wasn't in the appendices was it?

'Yesterday Evangeline Lilly's Tauriel-a young Silvan Elf-resuscitated a dying human girl with a liquid burst of Elvish'-It notes that Lilly bought he fluency in French to the pronoucniation of Sindarin-were the two languages ever linked?

For all the special effects that will be bought to bear on The Hobbit trilogy, Jackson is still dangling actors on piano wires and constructing sets enshrouded in the own wintry patterns. 'This is his roots isn't it?' says Bloom
-Looks like TABA will be taking place in the winter

There is alot of mention of piano wires, so the matrix elves may a recurring motif!

Laketown-'Contary to the town on stilts of Tolkien's famous illustration the cramped streets are level with the waterline, giving it the dishevelled aspect of a Dickensian Venice, a labyryth of gimcracks walkways, bridges and buildings that stoop beneath the burden of the heavy roofs. Its a foogy cladestine sort of place where things skulk amongst the shadows'.
'
'As the Dwarves arrive, by barrel at the waterborne human habitation withtin trading distance of Erebor, so the orcs have traked them, pursued in turn by our nimble elf, having made his entrance in the Elven Halls of Mirkwood'

'This will probably get me struck off The One Ring party list but I am enjoying deviating from the book'-Jackson.

There are further references to the orcs hunting the party in Laketown, and confirmation of more 'appendices' materil.

Mirkwood is trippy with Mushroom spores. 'The bedtime lilt of Tolkien's debut novel however charming is long gone'

'You read the books, the appendices, the letters and the interviews that Tolkien gave. Jackson observes, 'and you realise you are dramatising some of the things he was hinting at' However far they deviate from the text they are taking Tolkien with them. *Azog*

The two strands of Bilbo and Gandalf's journeys will be interweaved till the end of the film, with offshoots to legolas (not Thranduil apparently) the Master of Lakewton, and Bard's new backstory.

There is less humour in thsi film as it wasn't considered appropriate, the films will be getting more and more serious

By the end of the First act Gandalf will have a pretty good idea of who the Necromancer is-we will meet him in the film and see Cumberbatches 'mo-cap thing' come to life.

Azog is still after the company and will be joined by Bolg (though it isn't enitirely clear how he slots in)

Tauriel has big ears, and is roughyl 300 years old, much less wise and more dangerous than Legolas. She is 'chafing against Thranduil's isolationist policy.' Thranduil has a contemtp for what is going on out there. The elves won't resemble the 'fairytale creatures of the book' acoording to the articles writer.

Lee Pce looked Oberon and the Fisher King as inspiration, hikes overnight into NZ countryside to get into menidset, and says the corrupted nature of Mirkwood relects who he is. Thranduil is 3000 years old in the film-as far as I can remember this wasn't stated in the books. Thranduil has a Katana like sword, and soen't readily choose to use his force 'He has the reputation of being the greatest warrior in Middle Earth'

At least 5 orcs will pursue the dwarves into Laketown

Fathers and sons is a big theme in the film, it will examine the Bond between Throrin and Thrain in great detail, there is a flashback to his dissapearance outisde Moria, they will explore the 'complicated' issues between Legolas and Thranduil. Bolg IS the son/spawn of Azog,

'Desolation will commence somewhere familiar, but unexpected'. It will conclude with one of the 'biggest things' Jackson has ever created.

'Jackson has always felt the book lacked a definte confrontation between the dwarves and Smaug. He's rectified that. There will be bombs, inferanl artillery, and one mightily pissed off dragon. 'It gets pretty crazy'.

Is he sure he has enough left for the final film 'Oh yes, there is much to come. We have a battle with five armies' he says. 'You never know, it might be seven, eight or nine armies by the time we finish'

As I said I ahve just torn through the article as quickly as I could, so I may have missed a few things. All in all it seems Jackson has some interesting ideas up his sleeve, but this will not be an adaptaion of The Hobbit we know and love.

Sorry Daniel, the talkinf purse dosen't seem to make an appearance.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


boldog
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 9:57am

Post #2 of 253 (2982 views)
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AWESOME! [In reply to] Can't Post

It all sounds interesting!
looking forward to seeing the Necromancer, and seeing Bolg and Azogs relationship being established!
Orcs in laketown though? this will be interesting. I can imagine them wearing hoods in disguise

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 26 2013, 9:58am

Post #3 of 253 (2951 views)
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So.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Do we take it both Legolas and Tauriel journey to Laketown, since, for some reason, she ends up reviving a human girl? Can't say I'm enthused about this. More the opposite, really. Unsure

Still, I sense there's a lot of bluster here, with Empire picking out the more striking sequences and the emphatic quotes that probably shouldn't be taken too literally. I'm glad Thrain's flashback begins outside Moria. Is this what Jackson means by somewhere familiar, but unexpected? And what does he mean when he says that the film ends with the 'biggest thing' he's ever created? Is this in terms of a set or a set-piece? Or perhaps he means Smaug?


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jun 26 2013, 10:01am

Post #4 of 253 (2771 views)
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Thank you for this! [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of it seems pretty damn awesome, and I don't really have a problem with PJ deviating from the original text. The more Middle Earth, the better!

Nice to see Bolg and the Necromancer's appearances confirmed!

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:05am

Post #5 of 253 (2882 views)
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My brother has just nicked the magazine so I can't check [In reply to] Can't Post

But from what it says I get the impression Legolas and Tauriel are Elvish secruity, and both travel to laketown. In mentions in the article that Tauriel was spotted on the ruined Laktown set-though its not clear if she is involved in that scene, and it seems to be from film three.

By biggest thing I think it means biggest set peice.

One thing I noticed there was NOTHING about Bilbo and Beorn in that article...

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Arandir
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:07am

Post #6 of 253 (2872 views)
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Heh! PJ's quotes differ massively as time passes [In reply to] Can't Post

Here he's quoted saying "This will probably get me struck off The One Ring party list but I am enjoying deviating from the book" ... but a year or so ago (at the start of filming) he stated on Empire's 2011 August issue that he's learnt to "trust the book".

I have faith in PJ but im not sure I like these extreme changes in his perceptions ... Sure ideas can change over time but not so radically as these quotes seem to indicate ...

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:15am

Post #7 of 253 (2839 views)
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Well it was pretty obvious he never wanted to make a 'Hobbit' film, rather a LOTR Prequel [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the sucess the first prequel had I'm not surprised he felt he could voice his true feelings. I love the Hobbit book as a stand alone childrens book, and I'm still pretty 'meh' towards AUJ but some of these ideas sounds pretty cool-it's not as if they are changing Thranduil/Legolas's history-they didn't really have one

Though I'm not to sold on Legolas's reasons to leave Mirkwood-that for sure was something I never felt was necessary to explain in the books or the films. I frankly found it a little insulting Pj decided to completely ignore Tolkien's own imagery for Laketown, especially gievn the care he took to replicate his descriptions in the LOTR book.

A better title might have been The Thorin: The Legolas and Tauriel Chronicles featuring a pissed off Dragon

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Fàfnir
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 10:19am

Post #8 of 253 (2761 views)
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Won't Azog and Bolg look stupid as father and son ? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


(This post was edited by Fàfnir on Jun 26 2013, 10:19am)


Arandir
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:25am

Post #9 of 253 (2744 views)
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Haha! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
A better title might have been The Thorin: The Legolas and Tauriel Chronicles featuring a pissed off Dragon

Agreed!

To be honest, I really enjoyed AUJ - mainly because of the faithfulness to the book in many scenes. Now Im worried the next two films might branch off too far way from the original story. And while i also find some of the new ideas very interesting, it seems more and more like becoming a wonderful but generic fantasy trilogy- rather than The Hobbit - and also it may start to feel like becoming less of a prequel to LoTR than originally intended.

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review

(This post was edited by Arandir on Jun 26 2013, 10:27am)


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:32am

Post #10 of 253 (2733 views)
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I haven't watched AUJ since it came out [In reply to] Can't Post

I remeber both loving and hating it-I Always like the hobbit book on its own terms, but I also thought the appendices stuff could make for a cool film, needless to say when the two were put together (albeit chanhed quite a bit) I only ended up more confused on my feelings, its a good film but I haven't yet worked up the desire to watch it again. I wasn't exactly dissapointed but surprised how 'meh' I was to it.

This time around they are wholesale inevnting not adapting material so I'm hopefully going to be more open to it. Lee Pace does look pretty kick arse though.

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malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:38am

Post #11 of 253 (2705 views)
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Perhaps... [In reply to] Can't Post

But imagine what there mum looks like!

From what it says in the article (still in the possesion of my brother damn him) Pj reffers to Bolg as Azog's spawn not son, gievn the Orcs being created by Sauron stuff inserted into The Two Towers, I think they will go down the route of Azog and Co being bred by the Necromancer and sent into Moria to stir up trouble.

On a side noted anyone else think Azog looked a little like the Engineers from Prometheus?

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Arandir
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 10:44am

Post #12 of 253 (2709 views)
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I dont mind inventing [In reply to] Can't Post

new stuff so long as it doesnt interfere with the main story or reworking events in a completely different way from the precise descriptions in the book.

I also dont mind "enhacements" made to tweak some things around to make more sense out of them. Characters like Tauriel dont bother me much because being a Mirkwood elf, she represents many of the unnamed elves in the story and PJ is giving us more depth.

Im just afraid that some stuff might get out of hand and completely disregard the essental elements that make up The Hobbit. Though as i said before, I trust in PJ and wait for the release of DOS first.

(PS. On another note, I simply loved reading your indepth article about Cirdan :) )

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


namarie
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 10:48am

Post #13 of 253 (2682 views)
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Thank you for this malickfan [In reply to] Can't Post

and wow so many changes


Quote
'Jackson has always felt the book lacked a definte confrontation between the dwarves and Smaug. He's rectified that. There will be bombs, inferanl artillery, and one mightily pissed off dragon. 'It gets pretty crazy'.


This one sounds quite worrying.
Bombs? Artillery?


"The world is not in your books and maps. It's out there!"

"Such is the nature of evil. In time all foul things come forth."


tolktolk
Lorien

Jun 26 2013, 10:55am

Post #14 of 253 (2770 views)
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As expected [In reply to] Can't Post

There will be five minutes of Bilbo and Gandalf here and there, just to justify the title, drowned in acres of made up twaddle with atrocious dialogue. And at the end of this epic, most people still won't be able to name most of the dwarves or work out why they are there.


Imladris18
Lorien

Jun 26 2013, 12:34pm

Post #15 of 253 (2631 views)
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I sense a lot of "hyping" going on [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you're right about all the bluster in this article/magazine. I'm sure there are small truths, but still...


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 26 2013, 12:59pm

Post #16 of 253 (2544 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm very excited about what I'm hearing. And I loved the TORN shout out! That "party list" is our Oscar party. Go us!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 26 2013, 1:11pm

Post #17 of 253 (2681 views)
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Haven't you heard? [In reply to] Can't Post

Both Beorn AND Bilbo have been cut from the film.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 26 2013, 1:19pm

Post #18 of 253 (2521 views)
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Bomby will reserve any judgement? [In reply to] Can't Post

Having worked for many publications
since 1968...
Emphasis on the sensational
is what Editors want.

For all we know, this writer is a junior
writer who is Dying to make headlines?

Bomby wants to enjoy this movie
and The Release Print is where
"The Truth" really is.

There is a workflow that is Fluid
and 1500 people want the finest product
but often it seems... many allow their
"PJ Envy" to show,
which Bomby feels
is misplaced?


The Grey Elf
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 1:22pm

Post #19 of 253 (2599 views)
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Perspective on this for the cringers [In reply to] Can't Post

The writer of this article only reported what he/she/they were granted access to which surely wasn't everything. Thus the aforementioned "bluster" to make what is revealed the most significant things. Do not underestimate how much the info divulged is orchestrated by the producers or the studio. They appear to be using the initial sneak peeks to promote the elvish characters and hook Orli aficionados. Pretty savvy, I think. Bottom line -- we're getting a generous slice of DOS cake, but just a slice. So again, if there's anything in the article that makes you feel faint at heart with dismay, wait to see the final product before coming to any conclusions. Leastwise, that's what I'm trying to do. Smile


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:28pm

Post #20 of 253 (2629 views)
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A couple more things I noticed [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo and Co pick up new clothes (looking pretty regal imo) in Laketown as per book-perhaps a gift from the Master?

The pursaul of the orcs into Laketown possibly takes place in the winter: 'Using s heet of ice as a stepping stone he (Legolas) then hops to the far side of the canal and dahses down an alleway'. Legolas will ahve has face digitally replaced.


'I've been up in trees and scaled walls, I scale an orc at one point-she's almost ninja-esque' Lilly enthuses. Jackson has shown her some fight scenes edited togather.'She's just slicing through themlike blades of grass to get to the finish line'. she says. 'She has no problem killing that is waht she does. She is a killing machine'.

Sigh. Looks like Arwen the Amazonian Warlord has been resurected.

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malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:31pm

Post #21 of 253 (2587 views)
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Crikey Voronwe... [In reply to] Can't Post

If even you, one of the most laid back of the TORnadoes has cause to be sarcastic we might be in trouble.

But in all honestty it is starting to feel like that-Jackson and co using the name 'The Hobbit' as a lame marketing ploy to sell a very differnt story to the one Tolkien was interested in telling...

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malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:35pm

Post #22 of 253 (2472 views)
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I'm trying to reserve judgement [In reply to] Can't Post

But as there is much less solid info on all these additions and sub plots its hard not to get worried. I think its a bit of stretch to say Azog's assination squad, and Tauriel the Amazon Ninja are in the style of Tolkien's appendices...

And no offense Bomby...but I honestly can't understand half your posts! even as beuatifully written as they are.

Wink

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Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 26 2013, 1:37pm

Post #23 of 253 (2517 views)
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Urgh [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds like the Elves will be up to all sorts. I notice Lily talks about her character in such terms a lot. I don't know if that's what she's being fed, but it's not exactly endearing Tauriel to the public.

I'm just hoping this isn't so prominent in the film, and takes a backseat to Bilbo and the Dwarves and Gandalf's storyline. But if Tauriel and Legolas are in Laketown when Smaug attacks...well, I daren't think what might happen. One shudders at the thought. Sure Bard will still get the finishing blow, but don't rule out the prospect of Legolas doing some 'dragon-riding' and Tauriel doing God knows what.


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 1:40pm

Post #24 of 253 (2495 views)
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Look on the bright side, there is No way the Tolkien Estate will sell the rights to his other works... [In reply to] Can't Post

So we are spared Legolas surfing down Ancalgon's back doing tag team with Earendil...

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 26 2013, 1:40pm

Post #25 of 253 (2553 views)
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In all honesty, I'm withholding judgment [In reply to] Can't Post

But before I say anything else, let me express my gratitude to you for posting the summary of the article (as well as for your kind words). There certainly is plenty in what you have reported (and other things that I have seen) that is concerning to me, but as others have acknowledged it is difficult to know how much is hype and how much is reality. The thing that scares me the most is the thing about the confrontation between the Dwarves and Smaug. I think that has the great potential to completely overshadow Bilbo's encounters with the great dragon, which would be a terrible shame.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire

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