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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Persisting concerns about possible severe under-representation of Gandalf in Dol Guldur. . . he should not seem less effective than Aragorn would be.

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 25 2013, 5:35am


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Persisting concerns about possible severe under-representation of Gandalf in Dol Guldur. . . he should not seem less effective than Aragorn would be. Can't Post

Most of us here love the sage aspects of Gandalf, his great Wisdom and guidance, and the tenacity and vigilance which he embodies.

Yet, let us be perfectly clear: He is a lot more than a wise old itenerant counsellor. He is one of the Powers in Middle-Earth in The Third Age, by his own reckoning and by the reckoning of The Wise amongst friends and foes. Anyone who suggests that Mithrandir wasn't capable of amazing displays of enchantment and power in a tight corner is ignoring the history, the novels and even the films.

Here then is the concern: I do not pretend to know what will play out in the upcoming film's representation of the foray into Dol Guldur, but I DO know that IF Gandalf is shown to be even nearly overwhelmed or to have "met his match" in the likes of Thrain, Bolg, or merely one or two Nazgul (in the Fellowship he holds all Nine at bay from dusk until dawn with enchantments of fire and lightning), it will both be a blatant misrepresentation of and contradiction to what we know of his abilities from the novels and even the films AND will also greatly detract from the character and his reputation.

No single orc or even small group thereof, not even an orc as menacing as an Azog or a Bolg, should be shown as on par or superior in force to one of The Five Wizards, unless said orc(s) is (are) the third wave following a second wave of Nazgul (or other powerful supernaturals) who have worn the Wizard down.

Aragorn is an uber-orc killing Machine in Fellowship, and he also drives off five of The Nine (Witch-King included), more dramatically than in the novels, and without the circumstances in the novel which account for The Nazgul being so fallible (i.e. Glorfindel The Elf Lord on their heels, and the fact that they had just spent an entire night locked in fierce battle with one of the mightier of The Five Wizards). Legolas isn't bad at it either. Whatever quibbles we may sometimes have here in comparisons between The Wizards and the mightiest of the High Elves, I don't think too many will stand up with a straight face and suggest that Aragorn or Legolas are as powerful as Gandalf The Gray. The Balrog situation is proof of that. "Swords are of no more use here. . . this is a foe beyond ANY of you, I must hold the narrow way." And Legolas and Gimli certainly agreed, dropping their weapons in terror at the sight of Durin's demonic bane.

I suspect some who have seemed to take my comments on this upcoming scene and its ramifications as no more than a plea from me for more explosive magic from Gandalf have not fully considered the larger implications and ramifications. It will be very strange (not to mention dissapointing and diminishing of the character) if the Gandalf who defeats ancient Demons from before the creation of the world, and who blasts dozens of goblins and their torture engines away in an instant, comes within inches of having his ass handed to him by a few beefed up orc captains.

If Gandalf just barely makes it out of a fix that we could just as easily expect Aragorn or Legolas to fight their way out of, something is very, very wrong. Gandalf posesses powers that Aragorn and Legolas simply do not. He will be "hard put to it indeed," in Dol Guldur, and it would be a travesty if his power is not on display in that peril, as their will be no accounting for why it isn't.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Jun 25 2013, 5:35am)

Subject User Time
Persisting concerns about possible severe under-representation of Gandalf in Dol Guldur. . . he should not seem less effective than Aragorn would be. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 5:35am
    Some Gandalf love The Mitch King Send a private message to The Mitch King Jun 25 2013, 6:29am
        Galadriel out performing all three of the represented Wizards presents its own bag of problems, AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 7:07am
            I don't see the need to rank the great ones Nerwen Send a private message to Nerwen Jun 25 2013, 8:16am
                I agree about Frodo, but here there are several more layers of problems than existed with Frodo. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 26 2013, 3:35am
            By all indications, Gandalf and Radagast will be in DG together, at least at first... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Jun 25 2013, 11:17am
            Hear, Hear! GoBlue Send a private message to GoBlue Jun 26 2013, 3:22am
                Thank you, and well stated. I must say, my main concern in this particular set of posts is AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 26 2013, 3:39am
                Well no, not quite.... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Jun 26 2013, 8:18am
                    I don't want to veer too far off from the central point of this parcitular thread, AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 26 2013, 8:45am
                    I agree. arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 26 2013, 10:46am
    Are these weekly rants really necessary? dubulous Send a private message to dubulous Jun 25 2013, 8:05am
        If these are rants, they are the most intelligent and well-thought out rants I have ever seen Radagast-Aiwendil Send a private message to Radagast-Aiwendil Jun 25 2013, 8:12am
            My thanks to you, my friend. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 2:29pm
        It's not actually a 'weekly rant' Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Jun 25 2013, 9:58am
            Honoured by your appreciation AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 2:30pm
                I meant it – I always find your posts interesting, and inevitably put in a polite way Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Jun 25 2013, 2:44pm
            Ditto Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jun 25 2013, 3:22pm
                Awww. Blushergized. lol AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 26 2013, 2:39am
                    Virtual high-five Elessar Send a private message to Elessar Jun 26 2013, 4:06am
        Allow me to be clear, this is not so much about him not being the strongest in the assault on Dol Guldur. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 2:27pm
        You don't have to read something if you're not interested. entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jun 25 2013, 2:31pm
            Noted, Bumpypotato Send a private message to Bumpypotato Jun 25 2013, 2:42pm
        They are weekly. Rostron2 Send a private message to Rostron2 Jun 25 2013, 6:30pm
            You can always change it. Imladris18 Send a private message to Imladris18 Jun 25 2013, 7:12pm
                That would not work. arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 25 2013, 8:09pm
                    Any poster can veiw activity by latest replies. Imladris18 Send a private message to Imladris18 Jun 25 2013, 8:15pm
    I don't mean to be rude... Bumpypotato Send a private message to Bumpypotato Jun 25 2013, 11:46am
        On old page arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 25 2013, 12:14pm
            . Bumpypotato Send a private message to Bumpypotato Jun 25 2013, 12:41pm
                There's only one way to find out! // arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 25 2013, 12:44pm
                Pssst... Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Jun 25 2013, 9:15pm
        These type of comments will stop now entmaiden Send a private message to entmaiden Jun 25 2013, 2:33pm
    Which Gandalf? Voronwë_the_Faithful Send a private message to Voronwë_the_Faithful Jun 25 2013, 1:27pm
        I understand. I would say though, The "Pure" Hobbit Gandalf would not have been AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 2:38pm
        Meant to add this but time expired. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 25 2013, 2:51pm
            Well, another thing to consider... Eleniel Send a private message to Eleniel Jun 25 2013, 3:35pm
                Once it is decieded to be a trap and he starts being attacked, secrecy will no longer avail. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 26 2013, 2:42am
            How I would like to see it. Imladris18 Send a private message to Imladris18 Jun 25 2013, 6:19pm
    Your concerns are understandable but may prove unfounded Michelle Johnston Jun 25 2013, 9:36pm
    Thanks JWPlatt Jun 26 2013, 6:29pm
        I agree with all you post here JW Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 6:37pm
            My thanks to you, AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 27 2013, 6:11am
                AO Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Jun 27 2013, 6:59am
                    I don't disagree with much of what you say. I am not saying Gandalf should breeze out of Dol Guldur AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 28 2013, 4:34am
        *swelling with fond appreciation* AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Jun 27 2013, 6:11am

 
 
 

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