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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Could Azog have been more fearsome, if he was prosthetic?

boldog
Rohan


Jun 24 2013, 12:04pm

Post #1 of 23 (846 views)
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Could Azog have been more fearsome, if he was prosthetic? Can't Post

Please no negative comments concerning Azogs character, I just want my question answered! lol.
Now considering his look in the films, being Cgi, what if that look was done in prosthetic, like Bolg? Could it actually work? They would obviously need someone large like conan stevens (I don't know how built up Manu actually is, though he seems less bulky than conan) But with Azog having no shirt on, would they leave the actors body, or add stuff ontop to give it more muscle? either way, im wishing they made Azog Prosthetic, he would look so much better! dou you think it could have worked? maybe they might end up doing? who knows!

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 24 2013, 12:12pm

Post #2 of 23 (478 views)
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I actually quite like Azog's design [In reply to] Can't Post

I did think the Orcs in LOTR were very stiff faced and not at all intimidating (though the Uruk-hai were quite good), whereas Azog is quite scary (to me).


Joe20
Lorien


Jun 24 2013, 12:42pm

Post #3 of 23 (447 views)
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Yes absolutley. [In reply to] Can't Post

I find these orcs...

http://oi43.tinypic.com/n1tgmh.jpg

far more fearsome and genuinely frightening compared to Azog which does absolutely nothing for me. And I chose that picture because I always thought that scene, where the orcs first break through the gate of Minas Tirith, was very terryfying when you think about what it would actually be like to face down such blodd thirsty creatures. Yet the CG goblins in The Hobbit do not have that about them, they feel weightless and just simply not scary because no sense of danger exists when they don't exist.


(This post was edited by Joe20 on Jun 24 2013, 12:43pm)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Jun 24 2013, 12:43pm

Post #4 of 23 (507 views)
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The problem with Azog isn't the CGI, [In reply to] Can't Post

which i personally thought fine (though not up to Gollum standars, obviously). It was more to do with his overall design and the performance of the actor than the fact that he was CGI. And i say that as a fan of actors in prosthetics, and of all the orcs in LotR. The Great Goblin, for instance--he was quite convincing and effective as a menacing, if a touch comedic, character (and if you ignore that stupid chin, which isn't easy). And trolls have always been great foes in all of Jackson's Tolkien films. So, no, i honestly don't think the character would have been improved with an actor in prosthetics, because it would have still been the same actor, and the overall design would likely have been very similar. An ill concieved character is an ill concieved character.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Jun 24 2013, 12:47pm)


Skaan
Lorien


Jun 24 2013, 1:08pm

Post #5 of 23 (405 views)
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But they do exist [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of the goblins in AUJ were actual guys in prosthetics, they just had CGI faces. If you're talking about the few instances where they're fully CGI, LOTR had shots like that aswell.

Regarding Azog, i don't think his current design could have worked as a guy in prosthetics. Make-up prevents a lot of facial expressions, which is something they really did a good job with on Azog i think. I still prefer prosthetics over CGI. But Azog being CGI makes sense considering his design.

I also find it somewhat amusing sometimes how some people complain about Azog being CGI and "not actually being there", but then at the same time praise Gollum which is basically done in the exact same way. You could argue that one has better CGI, but then we're talking about the quality of CGI, not the fact that he's CGI or not.


dave_lf
Gondor

Jun 24 2013, 1:08pm

Post #6 of 23 (420 views)
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Azog freaks me out [In reply to] Can't Post

and at least part of that is a direct consequence of the CGI. The uncanny chasm is an asset when you're designing monsters.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jun 24 2013, 1:23pm

Post #7 of 23 (399 views)
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I believe so [In reply to] Can't Post

I felt that LOTR orcs that were supposed to be much "lesser" than Azog, like Grishnakh, Snaga, and Gorbag, looked much more frightening than Azog. Even the two "real" orcs in AUJ, Fimbul and Yazneg, looked scarier than Azog did. And I know many doin't like Bolg's design, but I think Bolg looks pretty cool, and far more menacing than Azog. The rest of the cgi orcs in AUJ looked like cartoon characters to me. Yes, I absolutely think Azog would have looked scarier if he were a guy in prosthetics.


1415dr
The Shire

Jun 24 2013, 1:54pm

Post #8 of 23 (359 views)
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I don't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking that very same thing. I re-watched AUJ this past weekend, and I paid close attention to Azog. I really don't see what all the complaints are about. His facial expressions are really amazing. Far better than Larz from FOTR. Even the best prostetics are limited facially. He shows distress and confusion. He has a smirk that couldn't be replicated with a mask on.

I think the main problem is having white skin with no shirt on. It shows you that it's definitely CG, but even that wasn't as bad as people are saying. When he's holding the king's head that is practically a painting it looks so good, but once or twice when he's walking his body looks out of place.

If they really want it to look perfect they should put some dirt and mud on his skin. I think he was a little too clean in comarison to all the dirty, blood stained people around him. Like the orc he kills on weathertop. He's covered in dirt. He looks real. Azog stands out in contrast.

Anyway, that was my impression. I'll watch it again later and see if it holds up.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 24 2013, 3:00pm

Post #9 of 23 (322 views)
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I doubt it. [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought Azog was just fine. Big, tough-looking, scary, and I thought his expressions were done well.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 24 2013, 3:04pm

Post #10 of 23 (317 views)
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I doubt it [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Azog is an excellent piece of design. Very expressive, very powerful and full of character. Very likelike - and frightening. I'm sure that if they could have done it better with prosthetics then they would have. But the CGI is amazing.

Of course, I'd rather look at elves.... Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Jun 24 2013, 3:18pm

Post #11 of 23 (307 views)
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Probably not. [In reply to] Can't Post

I find Azog (in terms of a character) much better than Lurtz, and that's pretty much down to his design (as well as application).

Though I do like Azog's final design, I do *prefer* when he once looked like Yazneg (see this video). In a crowd, Azog sticks out like a saw thumb. His Yazneg-look is much more in keeping with previously seen Orcs.


tom oates
Registered User

Jun 24 2013, 3:52pm

Post #12 of 23 (327 views)
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in comparison to Gothmog, Azog looked like an adorable kitten [In reply to] Can't Post

i believe the CGI has taken away the gritty, fearson and truly evil look which the orcs possessed in the LOTR. Gothmog for instance possessed that incredibly detailed and hideous face which freaked the hell out of me especially during his appearences in the attack on Osgiliath. To me Azog looks too fake and clean making him somewhat unintimidating.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 24 2013, 4:02pm

Post #13 of 23 (292 views)
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So do I [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he would have been better as an actor in prosthetics. That would have been my preference.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 24 2013, 5:41pm

Post #14 of 23 (240 views)
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Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog doesn't suffer from the stiff faces and lack of expression like the LOTR. All they ever did was growl and show their teeth. Azog grins, has the most dialogue etc etc. CGI(at least in the face, is a big improvement to me.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Jun 24 2013, 5:53pm

Post #15 of 23 (242 views)
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I think having a CGI Orc is fine [In reply to] Can't Post

But I feel Azog isn't up to the same level as some of the other CGi characters. He would probably look fine in another film, but compared to Gollum, the Trolls and The Goblin King, I feel the fact he was a late addition shows. I think a lot of his CG orcs look better than him and I was unaware the majority of them were entirely CGI till I read the Weta chronicles. I do feel CGI does allow for some variety amongst the orcs and is great for allowing them to express emotions that could have previously been hindered by prosthetics and I do like the prosthetic orc, part prosthetic part cgi orc and entirely CGI orc as it allows for a greater variety of designs.

All that being said, I do think Azog is already looking better in the brief glimpse we get of him in the Dos trailer.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jun 24 2013, 8:56pm

Post #16 of 23 (196 views)
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For me [In reply to] Can't Post

My movie viewing has always been about using organic actors in makeup for key villains. Can you imagine if they'd done Bane in CGI in stead of Tom Hardy playing him in a (albeit rather silly) mask? CGI lives more in the realm of superheroes and sci-fi by necessity. Azog might have been more intimidating, but he's all right. I don't think of him as very cunning for some reason, although he's got enough smarts and wilderness knowledge to figure out how to track a bunch of dwarves in company with a wizard. Certainly he's brave enough to do that.


Kendalf
Rohan


Jun 25 2013, 9:04am

Post #17 of 23 (134 views)
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Yes, but then he wouldn't look like he currently does... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now considering his look in the films, being Cgi, what if that look was done in prosthetic, like Bolg? Could it actually work?

Unlike several of the posters above, I don't actually like Azog's design. I find him to be completely incongruous in Jackson's Middle-earth; he resembles nothing that's come before him (in the original trilogy) or, as far as we know, in the films yet to come. He just doesn't fit. Anyway, to answer your question, no, I don't bellieve there's any way they could have realised that design for Azog using prosthetics. I only wish they had settled on prosthetics because then they may have designed something more in keeping with the aesthetic they'd already established!

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Jun 25 2013, 11:21am

Post #18 of 23 (110 views)
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I couldn't agree more... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Unlike several of the posters above, I don't actually like Azog's design. I find him to be completely incongruous in Jackson's Middle-earth; he resembles nothing that's come before him (in the original trilogy) or, as far as we know, in the films yet to come. He just doesn't fit. Anyway, to answer your question, no, I don't bellieve there's any way they could have realised that design for Azog using prosthetics. I only wish they had settled on prosthetics because then they may have designed something more in keeping with the aesthetic they'd already established!

...And have said so many times-- he flies in the face of Jackson's previously established Middle-earth aesthetic, and not only in his physical appearance. The way he struts around like some kind of tough guy is more like something you'd see in the WWE. He'd be much more at home in one of those horrible Dungeons & Dragons movies (only his cgi would be even worse-- just kidding, i thought his cgi was fine).


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 25 2013, 11:36am

Post #19 of 23 (104 views)
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yes absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post

those Uruks from LOTR were magnificently horrible. Azog on the other hand was so obviously cgi that i felt nothing looking at him, he looked plastic. I liked what they did for the Mouth of Sauron, it was a guy in costume with a cgi face, it was brilliant and one of the creepiest villains i have ever seen in a film.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 25 2013, 11:38am)


Bumpypotato
Bree

Jun 25 2013, 11:52am

Post #20 of 23 (96 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I certainly find the CGI form more menacing then he was under prosthetics, and the added size this allowed definitely makes him seem powerful, but I find it hard to say whether or not he would have been more fearsome in prosthetics, but under the same design as he ended up with. The one thing I can say, however, is that he would look a lot more grounded in the universe, and perhaps a bit crueler because of that.


Boromir Stark
Rivendell

Jun 25 2013, 12:32pm

Post #21 of 23 (99 views)
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I think Azog being less gritty and crude than the other orcs is deliberate though. [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember reading in another thread a while ago that Azog is supposed to represent what orcs originally looked like back when they were first made: corrupted Elves.

He is essentially the "pure" orc. This idea is very easy to see; he is far more human/elf-looking than all other orcs. Since they were originally created, orcs have become wilted, watered-down versions of what they were originally. They are now deformed and much less powerful.

To me the idea of Azog being a "pure" orc, and perhaps even the last of his "kind", is more frightening than any orc with gnarled teeth and digusting facial features. He is more human/elf than monster, and as such is more of an actual character than just another grunt like all the other orcs before him have been.


SaltedPork
Bree


Jun 25 2013, 7:20pm

Post #22 of 23 (68 views)
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I couldn't agree more [In reply to] Can't Post

I definitely like this assessment. He should stand out from the rest. I thought he looked great. Definitely able to emote better with CG.


apariel
The Shire


Jun 29 2013, 3:46pm

Post #23 of 23 (28 views)
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yes for me! [In reply to] Can't Post

I absolutely agree - for me Lurz was terrifying in FofR - That scene when he shoots Boromir or fights with Aragorn... uuuuh I had some troubling times with nightmares!

When I saw Azog the first time on screen, for me it was a white and evil Avatar for me. But no nightmares or the wish to leave the theater at ones for me. (And this is what I usually do, when it gets scary.)
He is looking much better in the trailer for DoS!

..." we are sitting on a field of victory,..."Smile


 
 

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