Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Silmarillion Discussion, Chapter 19: Of Beren and Luthien: Love, etc.

CuriousG
Valinor


Jun 23 2013, 2:08pm


Views: 1528
Shortcut
Silmarillion Discussion, Chapter 19: Of Beren and Luthien: Love, etc. Can't Post

Welcome to Beren & Luthien!

These chapter discussions are open to everyone -- all you need is to have read the book and have an opinion, question, and/or comment. This is absolutely not for experts only - everyone's participation is welcome, whether you are a veteran of the Reading Room or brand-new, and whether you've commented on other chapters or not. Feel very free to jump right in.

I like this chapter partly because Tolkien liked it so much himself that he clearly labored over every word and nuance. It also seems to be the culmination of many of his themes about the nature and destiny of Middle-earth, neatly packaged in a Romeo & Juliet story. Where else but Arda can both heroes die and still live happily ever after?

Synopsis (chronological):
  • Beren flees from his rebel life in Dorthonion and accidentally discovers Luthien in Doriath. It's love at first sight for them as individuals, while Doom surrounds them on a larger scale.
  • Thingol loves his daughter, hates Beren, and tries to thwart their marriage by naming the impossible bride-price of a Silmaril.
  • Beren, undaunted by the hopeless nature of the quest, travels (there's lot of traveling in this tale) to Nargothrond, calls in the debt owed to him by Finrod, and they venture north, but are captured by Sauron at Minas Tirith.
  • Luthien escapes her father's captivity and follows Beren's trail to Nargothrond, only to be held captive there by those icky Sons of Feanor, Celegorm and Curufin.
  • Huan the hound from Valinor helps Luthien escape and takes her to Minas Tirith, where they defeat Sauron and liberate Beren. (They're too late to save Finrod.)
  • They return to Doriath's borders, are ambushed by C&C, and narrowly survive.
  • They set out for Angband disguised as evil creatures, and thanks to their joint heroism and abundant uses of Luthien's cleverness and magic, they briefly capture a Silmaril, only to have Morgoth's wolf (Carcharoth) bite off Beren's hand that was holding it.
  • Rescued by Thorondor and whisked back to Doriath, the couple recuperates, and Thingol accepts them at last, but the wolf invades Doriath, and Huan and Beren are killed while battling Carcharoth.
  • Luthien's spirit follows Beren's to Aman and she secures a second life for both of them, though it means she'll become mortal. They settle in the extreme southeast of Beleriand (barely on the map) and start a hybrid race which Legolas says (in LOTR) will never die out.
I struggled to divide this discussion up into chronological chunks, but kept coming back to themes that crossed the chapter, so that's where we're headed. Here's the schedule, but PLEASE don't hold back on any question/comment you have that looks like it should wait on the schedule. Our conversations here are organic, and best to bring up your thoughts when the moment is ripe.

June 23: Love and Magic
June 26: Politics and Fate
June 30: Race, class, gender, family
July 3: Everything else

Now for some fun--count the man-swoons! I came up with six times that Luthien had to revive Beren. Do you agree?
  1. When he first sees her in Doriath, he goes into a trance, which she ends by song.
  2. In Minas Tirith, she revives him in the dungeon from a swoon.
  3. After the attack by Celegorm and Curufin, Luthien the Nurse revives Beren from an arrow wound (I'm assuming he swooned).
  4. In Morgoth's throne room, she has to wake him up.
  5. After Carcharoth bites off his hand, she nurses him back from a coma.
  6. After Beren dies, Luthien travels all the way to Mandos to revive him. (I'm counting death as a swoon.)


Subject User Time
Silmarillion Discussion, Chapter 19: Of Beren and Luthien: Love, etc. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 2:08pm
    Love: dare we question it? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 2:50pm
        Not a Disney movie: Beren is pretty much Lúthien's sidekick noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 8:47pm
            That's the surprise in this story CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 9:06pm
                Add to that the "meet the parents" scene… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 9:48pm
        There seems almost no motivation for their love noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 9:56am
            Fate, and the single chapter CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 12:52pm
                The "Celtic" chapter??? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 2:07pm
                    There are parallels with the Tale of Culhwch and Olwen elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 24 2013, 3:59pm
                    Another interesting parallel elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 24 2013, 4:03pm
                        Excellent find CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 4:33pm
                        Thanks... And noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 4:40pm
                            You mean with one having been relegated to the lowest division? elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 24 2013, 5:48pm
                    And another.... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 24 2013, 4:27pm
                        Reading all these influences CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 4:38pm
                This chapter for a Standalone film, perhaps? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 10:40am
                    Tis dangerous to awaken the slumbering Oath of Hollywood, Wiz CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 12:54am
                        It's OK, I've escaped from being held prisoner by the Lovecraftian demon, Inreplytu noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 27 2013, 9:35am
                            Adventures in Manseling CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 12:05pm
                                Not "a Mansel in Distress" but "A Mansel in Dis Bathrobe"? // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 27 2013, 12:49pm
                                curiousg Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 4:35am
                            *mods up* dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Jun 28 2013, 3:14am
        The personal connection & That tombstone noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 2:33pm
            Oh, my mind and details--what's the use CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 3:30pm
        About Love Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 24 2013, 7:28pm
            Falling in love, the Beleriand way... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 24 2013, 7:52pm
                A nice thought! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 24 2013, 8:41pm
                    Yes, viva the rare oddballs!! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 24 2013, 8:58pm
                Elves and their partners CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 12:55am
            Love and war CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 12:00am
                Making me blush CG... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:21am
                    hero vs. heroine Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 1:04pm
                        Yes, but didn't you say Morgoth was a hero too? :) CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 1:33pm
                            slander-monger Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 1:42pm
                            oh, and... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 1:45pm
                                And likewise, I hope I didn't seem too defensive CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 2:00pm
                                    curiousg Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 2:03pm
                                    Will you be having the cockatrice egg omelette? // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 2:33pm
                                        brethil! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 2:35pm
                                        brethil! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 3:33pm
                                            Alas! I have moved on! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:33pm
                        female suffixes to neutral nouns Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 1:36pm
                        Who has been using the "heroine" word? Ctrl+F: Oh...it's me... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 1:55pm
                            by all the stars of elbereth... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 1:59pm
                        Blame the Victorians noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 3:46pm
                            Yes, vapid damsels in distress are definitely a Victorian concept! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 4:19pm
                        My problem with "heroine"... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 25 2013, 7:50pm
                            And doctors' problem too! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 9:17pm
                                Lol it's so bad Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 12:21am
                            How right you are my friend! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:31pm
                                brethil! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 9:33pm
                                    Thank you Telpemairo! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:34pm
                                Thanks, Brethil. Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 12:28am
                    Yes, she's no Xena the Warrior Princess CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 1:54pm
                        Warrior princesses, oh my. noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 4:25pm
                            That is a hoot! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 5:26pm
                            There's a reason it's called "fantasy". Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jun 25 2013, 6:55pm
                                (***hahaha!!***) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:56pm
        dialogue between Beren and Luthien noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 5:08pm
            I think the movie gave a nice image of Luthien reborn in Arwen in that episode. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 5:21pm
                On the other hand noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 5:43pm
        Dialogue Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 25 2013, 8:03pm
            Most definitely beautiful--thanks for adding it CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 8:44pm
                I wish we did too Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 12:16am
            That's really nice Ardamire elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 9:22pm
                I wish that too Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 12:25am
        Answers sador Send a private message to sador Jun 26 2013, 12:28pm
            Fate and choice CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 26 2013, 1:13pm
                Fate and free will noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 4:48pm
                    Well Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jun 26 2013, 5:06pm
                        He did not predestine before He foreknew… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 5:21pm
                            Frodo Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jun 27 2013, 2:40pm
                                An odd thing happens to both Frodo and Beren… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 2 2013, 9:08pm
                                    Great connection, Wiz CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 9:43pm
                                        Hmmm - not sure I see Beren as in the shade here Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 2 2013, 10:02pm
                                    Another odd thing happened to both Frodo and Turin... squire Send a private message to squire Jul 2 2013, 11:37pm
                                    Impel versus compel Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jul 3 2013, 2:40pm
                                        it must be my lucky day Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 3:03pm
                    Works rather nicely Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 5:35pm
                        You'd rather I was in an alternate timeline? :( noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 5:45pm
                            No, I like you in our timeline...! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 6:01pm
                        That explanation also explains… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 5:49pm
                    Splendid treatise, Wiz CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 1:11am
                In addition to the classic Christian debate between predestination and freewill, there is also the concept of wyrd to consider Escapist Send a private message to Escapist Jun 26 2013, 5:16pm
                    Beren's wyrd (do I have this right?) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 27 2013, 12:49pm
                        I think it's very relevant... FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Jun 28 2013, 2:58pm
                            Absolutely ....... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 28 2013, 3:15pm
                            Thanks FFH - I did think it was likely I was missing some of it!// noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 28 2013, 3:25pm
    Lust CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 3:06pm
        In order of ungraciousness... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 24 2013, 7:50pm
            Great post noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 9:05pm
                Very true Furincurunir! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 24 2013, 9:12pm
                    More lust: Sauron and Carcharoth CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 11:16pm
        In short sador Send a private message to sador Jun 26 2013, 1:45pm
    Man swoons :) noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 3:24pm
    When you kiss a fairy princess... CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 4:17pm
        Magic good and bad - letter #155 helps a bit noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 5:39pm
            Thanks for finding that! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 5:58pm
            A bit more #155: the prof digs himself further into a hole noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 8:30pm
                Nice use of that Letter ! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 24 2013, 8:01pm
                    More on the morals of magic - Mason and Magus noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 1:28pm
            JRRT and Hamlet... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 8:45am
        "winning mastery of Tol Sirion from Sauron " noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 9:01pm
            Luthien with the original Nazgul threat--yes, I think that every time! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 9:18pm
        Gorlim's ghost and Beren's dream noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 9:13pm
            Ulmo or not CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 9:29pm
        The fairy tale chapter Lothwen Send a private message to Lothwen Jun 24 2013, 11:38am
            Same impressions CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 12:43pm
                Stopping in quickly... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 24 2013, 1:08pm
        Have a magical day (wait, did I just call Disney?) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 8:38am
        Magic-schmagic, I says sador Send a private message to sador Jun 27 2013, 11:42am
    Random question "Release from Bondage"? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 23 2013, 9:04pm
        Release from Bondage CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 9:12pm
            Returning to Release from Bondage theme Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 8:07am
                There may be no official answer, but I do like Brethil's // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 8:14am
                    Thanks Furincurunir!!!!! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 8:41am
                    I do too. Huan fetched her the wrapper. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 11:59am
                        He's a good dog...// Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 1:55pm
                50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 12:49pm
        Tolkien never explained the title, so it's up to you the reader squire Send a private message to squire Jun 23 2013, 9:56pm
            Oh, I was thinking of Somerset Maugham CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 23 2013, 11:28pm
                Release from bondage - speculation noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 9:50am
                    Cool idea CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 12:56pm
    (More random questions) - why recover only one silmaril? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 1:30pm
        That would account for their missing husband/wife banter. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 24 2013, 1:48pm
            Aw, now I'm beginning to see them as Beren and Clyde :) // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 24 2013, 2:08pm
    Another random question - B&L's life post-resurrection noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 3:10pm
        maciliel-thoughts Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 3:21pm
            I agree... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 4:11pm
                Unnatural CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 4:31pm
                    and remember they've got the silmaril noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 4:47pm
                        Had forgotten that one! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 4:59pm
                        My mistake for glossing over that CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 5:14pm
                            if only Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 5:21pm
                                Well, they owed it to Thingol. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 5:27pm
                                    still haven't Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 6:09pm
                                        *sigh* CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 7:00pm
                                            empathy is a gift Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 8:32pm
                                                To Morgoth, with love: birthday presents CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 9:07pm
                                                    impressive... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 9:09pm
                                                    LOL- Love no. 3 CG! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 9:29pm
                                                        "Creature of cocoa and flame" --love it! // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 10:19pm
                                        Thingol says "bring to me..." noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 9:17pm
                                            so, thingol's dare Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 9:30pm
                                                Tsk tsk, stop being coy CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 9:38pm
                                            Thingol's scheme CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 9:36pm
                                                i don't think the silmarils have agency Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 9:45pm
                                                    Beren's fault CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 10:38pm
                                                        How much of that "he"... Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 12:13am
                                                            I was joking about the "he" CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 26 2013, 2:18am
                                                                Ah, good points. Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 2:25am
                                                                i always Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 2:35am
                                                                    All great points Telpemairo // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 3:11am
                                            + determined to fill page 5 with my posts!+ elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 9:38pm
                                                Interesting idea Elaen... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:58pm
                                                Great connection of Oath to Ring. I understood you quite well. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 10:18pm
                                That might have been a good idea elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 25 2013, 5:59pm
                                Justice versus healing Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 9:50pm
                                    interesting, but Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 10:01pm
                                        Perhaps healing for Luthien Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 10:07pm
                                            Yes, I think the Oath and Kinslaying already dispossessed them CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 10:17pm
                                                Excellent point Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 2:14am
                                                yes Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 2:32am
                                                    No-one to call a Council of Elrond. And so it turns to tragedy. noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 10:23am
                                                        Outstanding ideas here Furincurinir! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 5:20pm
                                                            Bravo, Brethil - noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 5:44pm
                                                                SoF .... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 5:58pm
                                                            Awesome synthesis, Breth CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 1:40am
                                                        Outstanding observations, Wiz CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 1:33am
                                                            "I served with Gandalf, I knew Gandalf. Gandalf was a friend of mine. You, Melian, are no Gandalf" noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 27 2013, 10:20am
                                                            If F-troop knew that Luthien was mortal... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 27 2013, 9:05pm
                                                                Leaning toward fear now CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 9:44pm
                                                                    Fear of Luthien Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 2:25am
                                                                        muffins! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 3:03am
                                                                            (****LMDAO****) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 3:17am
                                                                                i +thought+ Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 3:22am
                                                                                    Completely! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 3:28am
                                                                                        yes! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 3:47am
                                                                                Control yourself woman!!! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 28 2013, 6:21am
                                                                            ROFL!! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 28 2013, 6:17am
                                                                                this line was beautifully spoken Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 1:18pm
                                                                                    Hiya Maciliel elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 28 2013, 1:34pm
                                                                                        great forge of aule! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 1:39pm
                                                                                            it would be helpful if I... telain Send a private message to telain Jul 1 2013, 5:00pm
                                                                                                quite Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 5:10pm
                                                                                                    Mmm. Talking to herself...like our CG? // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 1 2013, 5:45pm
                                                                                                        yes Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 5:54pm
                                                                                                            Do I sense a taunt in the air? Must I retaliate, even after giving fair warning of my prowess? /// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 1 2013, 9:34pm
                                                                                                                "prowess"..? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 9:42pm
                                                                                                                Do I sense a taunt in the air? Must I retaliate, even after giving fair warning of my prowess? /// Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 9:45pm
                                                                                                                    "Of" your prowess? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 1 2013, 9:59pm
                                                                                                                        maybe... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 10:03pm
                                                                                                                        My gf ADORES the nickname of Prowess CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 1 2013, 10:25pm
                                                                                                                            Mmm, "prowess" is easy to remember CG... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 1 2013, 10:34pm
                                                                                                                                so correct Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 10:43pm
                                                                                                                                    It's still sounds more elegant than "the ol' ball & chain" // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 12:41pm
                                                                                                                            so.... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 10:45pm
                                                                                                                                And maybe take our elevenses money too. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 1 2013, 10:57pm
                                                                                                                                Oh, and hijacking my avatar CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 12:44pm
                                                                                                                                    pfffffffftttttttt!!!!!!!! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 2 2013, 12:50pm
                                                                                                                                        DSM4 lists avatar left CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 1:13pm
                                                                                                                                            boy Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 2 2013, 1:20pm
                                                                                                                                                Another symptom CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 1:33pm
                                                                                                                                                    i am Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 2 2013, 1:36pm
                                                                                                                                                        Then we're on equal terms CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 3:39pm
                                                                                                                                                            your admirable philosophy Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 2 2013, 4:11pm
                                                                                                                            does rachel Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 1 2013, 11:57pm
                                                                                    I am going to send my hospital bill to TORN CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 9:29pm
                                                                                        More Denny's specials Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 9:43pm
                                                                                        Does that make the Nazgul the Muffin-wraiths then? elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 28 2013, 9:46pm
                                                                                            Oh, yes, much reduced! Low-fat Muffin-Wraiths, in fact. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 9:49pm
                                                One Silmaril please Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 2:54am
                                                    No Silmarils needed, but thanks for the offer CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 26 2013, 3:57am
                                                        elves and potential Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 10:26am
                                                            Much agreement CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 26 2013, 12:27pm
                                                    the author trumps all.... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 10:13am
                                                        why the rest of Noldor are thought to rebel in the first place? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 11:04am
                                                        Valar transgression leading to redemption Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 2:30pm
                                        Fate CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 10:22pm
                                    Long day? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 25 2013, 10:14pm
                                        (brushing seaweed) Thanks for the sweet welcome CG! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 25 2013, 10:37pm
                                        brethil Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 10:42pm
                            It seems that the Sons of Féanor are obliged to act on the oath only when it suits them. noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 25 2013, 5:39pm
                                They're not really obliged at all Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Jun 26 2013, 5:00am
                                    I think that's a plausible reading, and there are also others noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 26 2013, 10:28am
                                    being obliged Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 6:23pm
                                        will also add... re fate Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 6:36pm
                                        and might I add? telain Send a private message to telain Jun 26 2013, 7:44pm
                                            always a pleasure to hear your thoughts, telain Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 8:20pm
                                                Oath power and subjectivity Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 8:33pm
                                                    No, you said "the middle one," lol CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 12:42am
                                                ah! yes... and Thingol should have let sleeping Oaths lie telain Send a private message to telain Jun 28 2013, 12:24pm
                                                    The Silmarillion vs LOTR CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 9:48pm
                                                        elven warts Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 9:51pm
                                                            You're still scheming to get your very own Silmaril CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 10:01pm
                                                                oh Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 10:06pm
                                                                    There is only one Nauglimuffin...// Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 10:12pm
                                                                    Dragon muffin CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 10:18pm
                                                                        You are. I still don't have a Thorin muffin. // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 10:25pm
                                                                            That's cos he knows you'll just dunk it in chocolate!! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jun 28 2013, 10:31pm
                                                                            Prepare to be disappointed CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 10:49pm
                                                                                A plethora of fun imagery! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 11:23pm
                                                                                    I just googled "boring guy, dull looks." That's what came up. I can never figure out what women find attractive in men. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 29 2013, 1:03am
                                                                                        Boring guy, dull looks Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 29 2013, 1:15am
                                                                                            Very funny! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 29 2013, 3:29am
                                                                                                That's great! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 29 2013, 4:40am
                                                        Moving briefly away from Muffins... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 9:57pm
                                                            Immortals and maturity CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 10:14pm
                                                                Had to think on this a bit Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 29 2013, 12:54am
                                                        Warts versus Muffins? // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 10:00pm
                                        But the Oath was not a fate, it was Fëanor being blasphemous and giving an empty oath Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Jun 27 2013, 12:27pm
                                            Good point CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 12:52pm
                                                Maedhros certainly believed in it Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Jun 27 2013, 3:04pm
                                            Fantastic summation Faenoriel Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 27 2013, 3:58pm
                                                An oath kept afloat by belief alone… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 27 2013, 4:52pm
                                                    I do think they believed it was binding Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 27 2013, 5:24pm
                                                        Oaths as perceived by others CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 6:02pm
                                                            Words of Command Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jun 27 2013, 8:32pm
                                                                Interesting thing about that CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 8:44pm
                                        Issues with Fate CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 3:34pm
            After the afterlife Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 26 2013, 6:24pm
        aside from people descendants Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 25 2013, 3:25pm
    Beren's singing Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Jun 26 2013, 9:16am
    The hybrid race Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Jun 26 2013, 9:32am
        are you asserting Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 26 2013, 10:16am
        I agree with that. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 12:49am
    One last random question - why doesn't Luthien go wolf-hunting? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 27 2013, 10:37am
        True, she had zapped that wolf before CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 27 2013, 11:39am
        Because she only stepped outside her feminine role out of absolute necessity Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Jun 28 2013, 1:20pm
    Ladies' poll CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 9:59pm
        beren's appearance Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 10:05pm
            Who do we call if casting this chapter for a film, do you all think? // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 29 2013, 11:39am
                A thallus, I think a casting call subthread would do better on Main… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jun 29 2013, 1:25pm
        Can we consider Viggo a 6' muffin? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 10:10pm
            tengwadil Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 10:15pm
                Actually I just plunked that answer out... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 10:23pm
                    not at all! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jun 28 2013, 10:47pm
                Maybe it's the contradictions that I stumble over in trying to picture him CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 10:26pm
                    Sorry, I drifted into visuals! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 10:27pm
                        No, I was asking for visuals! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 28 2013, 10:53pm
                            Ahhh! I see... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 28 2013, 11:27pm
                                Yes, by contrast I can picture Hurin and Turin detail. Maybe their personalities are more distinct.// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 29 2013, 1:05am
                                    Do you think Beren is overshadowed by how much we know of Luthien? // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 29 2013, 1:16am
                                        Yes CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jun 29 2013, 3:26am
                                            All true CG Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jun 29 2013, 4:01pm
    Late to the party... My favorite love story, Elwen Send a private message to Elwen Jul 1 2013, 4:00pm
        Gender reaction to this story CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 5:04pm
            Humans and Elves perceiving Fate Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 2 2013, 5:59pm
                really great point, tengwadil Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 2 2013, 6:30pm
                Great insights CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 6:31pm
        I agree with this very much Elwen Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 2 2013, 5:34pm
            Great quote CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 5:43pm
                funny Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 2 2013, 6:22pm
                    Well, to me their love is unattainable in the real world CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 2 2013, 6:47pm
                    I agree with you about the superlatives elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 2 2013, 10:05pm
                    Typical language in a Mary Sue story. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jul 3 2013, 5:42pm
                        Adore your footer Darkstone! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 6:00pm
            What, you mean Tolkien was a *bloke*? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 3 2013, 1:52pm
                my own take... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 2:09pm
                    She even changed herself into Mallorn Leaves. She's another Luthien, I think! // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 2:29pm
                    Shack fax was a *mare*????? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 3 2013, 5:12pm
                        no Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 5:17pm
                            Or that "Ring of Power, one careful owner, one of only 3 ever made, just out of warranty.."// noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 3 2013, 5:26pm
                                I've also got a bridge to sell you in a place called Khazad-dum. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 5:50pm
                                    Sorry, staying out of real estate since the debacle of buying up the Numenorean shoreline… noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 3 2013, 6:10pm
                                        I would encourage you to consider and Online Kitchen though Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 6:25pm
                                            Me vs Kitchens CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 6:33pm
                                                Sorry about your kitchen travails Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 4 2013, 3:33pm
                                                    brilliant! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 4 2013, 3:38pm
                                                        Yes, it is Fate. The time of the Online Kitchen has come. // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 4 2013, 3:39pm
                                                            That's what I need CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 7 2013, 2:09am
                                                                'Acheuelan Minimalist' style. Perfectly valid choice. // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 7 2013, 2:27am
                                                                    Google is watching us CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 7 2013, 5:43pm
                                                                        Funny! My typos strike again Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 7 2013, 7:13pm
                                                                            Me caveman. Me grunt. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 7 2013, 10:32pm
                                                                                Very endearing. Reminds me of why I like Dwarves. // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 8 2013, 8:00pm
                Mac is a roach? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 2:28pm
                    just want to say... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 2:56pm
                        Kind words always appreciated! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:00pm
                            just wait... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:13pm
                                I'll wait because CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:18pm
                                    your Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:22pm
                                        Well, at least I could count on her to fetch dinner every night. Could be worse. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:29pm
                                            always looking on the bright side -- Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:31pm
                                    You may expect a large wriggling package later today Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 4:25pm
                                        Lady Gaga?!? *runs to Gates of Angband, begs to be let in to claim asylum* // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:31pm
                        The Hero as a confession Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 4:14pm
                            Well, if it weren't for the salt mines CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:30pm
                                maybe Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:32pm
                                    Should you be writing that with me around?!? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 4:39pm
                                        great aule with his hammer Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:44pm
                                            Thank you for your understanding dear friend! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 4:48pm
                                **ROFLLB (LB = Like Bofur)** Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 4:38pm
                            I wrote a reply to this in the gender thread. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 5:06pm
                                I have been to the Box, and seen the Hobgoblins. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 6:01pm
                    oh and.... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 3:03pm
                        Something tells me CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:03pm
                            2nd guess: machitabel the cat?// noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 3 2013, 5:16pm
                    blasphemous thought Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:21pm
                        I wonder the exact same thing. We are fellow travelers in blasphemy. *gives blasphemous wink*// CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 4:28pm
                            so grand! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 3 2013, 4:53pm
                                'Mariner's wife' dating Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 3 2013, 5:05pm
                                    Or maybe CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 3 2013, 5:09pm
                Well, CG holds that "he" was a conglomerate, not a person at all. // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 4 2013, 3:31pm

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.