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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
How did you picture Azog and Bolg, before The Hobbit films?
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boldog
Rohan


Jun 23 2013, 8:59am

Post #1 of 26 (974 views)
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How did you picture Azog and Bolg, before The Hobbit films? Can't Post

hi all!,
I was just wondering what your envisions were of azog and bolg before seeing the hobbit film. How did you imagine them to look?
I always remember, picturing azog as a Black/green Orc, much like an Uruk hai mixed with the moria orcs from fotr, with long black hair.
Bolg on the other hand, I pictured to be almost like how azog is in the films! He was a large bold orc, with heavy armour, and more chilled. (not doing any fighting at all, save for his fateful confrontation with Beorn)
I know its a pointless thread but something interesting I guess......
Also another orc which I forgot, The great Goblin!
I had no visions similar to how he was portrayed in the films. in fact the most opposite. Reading the hobbit, I adopted the assumption that all goblins were actually orcs. (just another name). So I always imagined the goblins of goblin town to be very war like orc beings, and very faithful to the king. The great goblin to me was also an orc with long black hair, and armoured all up. I even imagined him to be somewhat ancient, as I assumed he was present at Gondolins fall. either way the movie was all wrong in his interpretation to me.

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"

(This post was edited by boldog on Jun 23 2013, 9:05am)


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 23 2013, 10:52am

Post #2 of 26 (481 views)
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I have to say I had no picture in my mind of them at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

From reading the book, the only individuals who created a clear picture in my mind were Bilbo and Gandalf, and the Dwarves (as 'garden-gnome' type characters, apart from Thorin, who looks tolerably like the individual in the book to me, though with a more fleshed out character). Gandalf was the only individual (in LOTR as well as in The Hobbit), who looked to me remotely like the characters described in the book. And none of the 'Elves' in LOTR or The Hobbit resemble the picture I had in my mind of the Elves of Tolkien's books – they are somehow too heavy, human and not ethereal enough, which is hardly surprising given that they are played by humans…


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jun 23 2013, 2:18pm

Post #3 of 26 (418 views)
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I pictured them as minor characters [In reply to] Can't Post

who were hardly in the story.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jun 23 2013, 2:56pm

Post #4 of 26 (404 views)
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Well, I pictured Azog as worm-food (and not much else) [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't say I had any particular image of Bolg in my mind except for an exceptionally large Goblin/Orc. However, I certainly didn't imagine either of them as albinos.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 23 2013, 3:32pm

Post #5 of 26 (383 views)
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I'm afraid I didn't.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Beyond the feeling of menace conjured up by their names and doings, I never really pictured the orcs at all.


Lio
Lorien


Jun 23 2013, 3:44pm

Post #6 of 26 (367 views)
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Blond. [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh Yeah, for some reason I pictured Azog with blond hair. And darker skin of course. But I like his movie look too.

As for Bolg, I never really had a clear image of him, probably because he is mostly mentioned in passing.

I too pictured the goblins as regular Orcs (which they are, the separate species thing is a movie invention). Also unlike most people it seems, I never imagined the Great Goblin as fat. Crazy

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." — Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 23 2013, 4:34pm

Post #7 of 26 (339 views)
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Same here [In reply to] Can't Post

I kind of pictured Bolg though as being dark, but still smaller than a man but just menacing mainly.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Jun 23 2013, 6:20pm

Post #8 of 26 (335 views)
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Like the goblins in Michael Hague's 1984 illustrated edition of the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

I wasn't a fan of all of Hague's designs, but I think his goblins were always the most frightening of the many illustrated incarnations that have popped up over the years. It's a pity I can't find any good reproductions of his illustrations online.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Lothwen
Rivendell

Jun 23 2013, 6:35pm

Post #9 of 26 (306 views)
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Actually, I didn't... [In reply to] Can't Post

Have a very clear picture of either Avog or Bolg in my mind when I read it. Blush
Azog was tall (in comparison to the dwarves that is) and kind of looked like one of Saruman's uruk hai without the long hair. Definitely not white! Bolg, I think, was similar, but smaller and meaner looking.

The Great Goblin was utterly different to the movie interpretation! He was large and strong, more muscles than fat. His head was huge, out of proportion to his body with long pointed ears. (I don't know where the ears came fromLaugh ) He had a very proud and menacing way of staring at the dwarves, an image which terrified me when I first read TH.

So each time, (just like for you) the movie-orcs were wrong! Laugh


(This post was edited by Lothwen on Jun 23 2013, 6:36pm)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 23 2013, 6:58pm

Post #10 of 26 (307 views)
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Since Orcs/Goblins are Always Violating the 10 Deadly Sins... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gluttony was a Perfect way to convey
the
Goblin King!

If you were their Ultimate Boss,
yea'.... you would get finest
Meatzz at ANY Banquet.

Food Fights were Highly likey
the Norm,
for thozzeGuys.

Bomby


Kendalf
Rohan


Jun 23 2013, 10:17pm

Post #11 of 26 (263 views)
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The Great Goblin was a design mis-step for me, too [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The great goblin to me was also an orc with long black hair, and armoured all up. I even imagined him to be somewhat ancient, as I assumed he was present at Gondolins fall. either way the movie was all wrong in his interpretation to me.


Like most of the contributors above, I never really had any clear visualisation of either Azog or Bolg in my head prior to the movies but I did have some sort of concept of the Great Goblin being some obese, repugnant and, crucially, malevolent creature.

And this is where I'm with you; Jackson's Great Goblin had no malice to him, no threat. He was too camp, too comedy, and thus the peril was drastically reduced.

Not a great deal went right with Goblin Town, to be honest... Unsure

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jun 23 2013, 10:39pm

Post #12 of 26 (252 views)
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Azog for me was... [In reply to] Can't Post

Very close to the movie version, in the sense of having a bald head with pointy ears silhouetted on both sides, a jutting jaw and a powerful build. Something about the name just conjures up that specific image for me.

Bolg, not so much in terms of costume and beard, but the face is very close to what I imagine.

The way I imagine the Great Goblin is very close to this painting by John Howe: http://www.john-howe.com/...ils.php?image_id=392 but more athletically built, with armour on and an even bigger head. The film's version was a total miss for me too, far too British, articulate and Disney-esque.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Jun 23 2013, 10:42pm)


sycorax82
Rohan

Jun 23 2013, 10:50pm

Post #13 of 26 (225 views)
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The Great Goblin was more comedic to contrast the more serious enemies later [In reply to] Can't Post

Sadly, with the films being split into 3, he ended up being one of the 'main' characters, which, if you think about it, was never really meant to be the case. Remember, film 1 originally had more Thranduil, Beorn and Bolg as characters, each of them far more serious than the Great Goblin.


Nira
Lorien


Jun 24 2013, 2:20am

Post #14 of 26 (184 views)
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ditto [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 24 2013, 2:51am

Post #15 of 26 (172 views)
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Umm [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog - dead
Bolg - alive then dead


“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 24 2013, 5:24am

Post #16 of 26 (165 views)
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My picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I thought Azog would only be in a flashback to set up Bolg. IDK why but I always pictured him dying on the bridge in FOTR just because everyone knew that setting. My view for Bolg was a big, strong, intelligent orc and a great leader. I knew they would set him up for epicness at the Battle of Five Armies. My view towards Azog was incorrect as you know but I absolutely love the originality of Bolg's design and I believe he can and will live up to what I expected. I suppose it depends on Azog's lifespan.

As for the Great Goblin, I expected a very large but not nearly as fat orc. I did think he was rather intelligent in the movie but I thought he would be creepier and much more serious and cruel. I hate turning any character into comedic relief. To me I loved him in AUJ but he could have been much better.


(This post was edited by The Mitch King on Jun 24 2013, 5:30am)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 24 2013, 7:42am

Post #17 of 26 (155 views)
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Far too British? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, can't help picking up on that because I laughed out loud when I saw it.

Not sure where in the world you are but can I promise you, as someone whose whole life has been lived in Britain, that I've never, never seen anyone who looked even remotely like the Great Goblin walking down the street and I'd probably have a heart attack if I did!!


elaen32
Gondor


Jun 24 2013, 9:25am

Post #18 of 26 (139 views)
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Yes, I also did a lol when I read that one! [In reply to] Can't Post

I know we have an obesity problem in the UK ( though still considerably less so than in the US) but it's not that bad!!WinkAlso, considering that Barry Humphries is an Aussie and I read somewhere that the GG was based on his character Sir Les Patterson ( Australian cultural attache to the UK), I'm not sure that the GG is meant to be British!Wink Not saying he's meant to be Aussie either btw!Crazy

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jun 24 2013, 5:04pm

Post #19 of 26 (103 views)
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I meant the malevolent avuncularity and overtly articulate speech... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Exaggerated stereotype British" is what I should have written, really (and I can't edit it now since I already did, dang!). I definitely didn't mean that anyone in Britain looks (or sounds) like GG, but that he has the mannerisms of a caricature "British" villain in some 2nd rate comedy. In other words, he appears far too "cultured" in his manner, especially for a troglodytic barbarian overlord living in a cave under the mountain.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Jun 24 2013, 5:07pm)


Marionette
Rohan


Jun 24 2013, 8:48pm

Post #20 of 26 (75 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

In the translation Azog is a goblin (Trasgo) so I was a bit confused about the way it looks.
But I had in mind orcs like Lord of the Rings movies´orcs. So Hobbit movie´s Bolg is quite similar to what I imagined


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Rostron2
Gondor


Jun 24 2013, 9:05pm

Post #21 of 26 (75 views)
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Interesting how people see them. [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't really think about Azog, but Bolg I thought of as a big, fierce orc, your basic general instead of a clever administrator like the Great Goblin.

One thought I had that they can do with any of the field commanders like Bolg is show a change in them as Sauron makes his presence felt more and gets stronger.

The Great Goblin was pretty much doing his own thing as he had for a long time. He was his own orc, nobody was telling him what to do. The orcs after him were more or less starting to be directed by an outside force. PJ may be attempting to show this to some degree. By the time of the LOTR their entire will is subject to Sauron, and although that's tough to show en masse, you can show it with individual brutes like Bolg.


Kendalf
Rohan


Jun 25 2013, 9:12am

Post #22 of 26 (48 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In other words, (the Great Goblin) appears far too "cultured" in his manner, especially for a troglodytic barbarian overlord living in a cave under the mountain.



Exactly.

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Kendalf
Rohan


Jun 25 2013, 9:23am

Post #23 of 26 (44 views)
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True, but he still wasn't right in my view [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Sadly, with the films being split into 3, he ended up being one of the 'main' characters...

It's a fair enough point but, even considering his originally more "minor role", he simply didn't seem to me to be anywhere near adversarial enough. At no point did I think "Uh-oh, they're in trouble here", which I should have been thinking, right? We've seen Jackson's goblins before. We've read about them in Tolkien's works. Did this Great Goblin not seem bizarrely incongruous to you?

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jun 25 2013, 12:04pm

Post #24 of 26 (36 views)
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Yes, yes he did... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Did this Great Goblin not seem bizarrely incongruous to you?



When I first saw the film, and the Great Goblin showed up, I was like "THAT is the Great Goblin?" He did not seem to me like something that could have existed in the same world as the one portrayed in LOTR, he seemed much more like something out of a Disney film.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jun 25 2013, 12:10pm

Post #25 of 26 (38 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
In other words, he appears far too "cultured" in his manner, especially for a troglodytic barbarian overlord living in a cave under the mountain.


Even though his actions proved otherwise, he almost seemed like a nice guy with manners, as opposed to the howling brute I pictured from reading the book...

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