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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
AUJ - More Likeable in Extended?
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vexx801
Rivendell


Jun 19 2013, 3:03pm

Post #26 of 60 (367 views)
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The S-B's [In reply to] Can't Post

I assume that the Sackville-Bagginses were mentioned in the prologue because they will likely appear in an auction scene near the end of TABA. That - or their brief appearance in FotR.


vexx801
Rivendell


Jun 19 2013, 3:06pm

Post #27 of 60 (359 views)
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Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

From what I understand, Manu said that he didn't shoot any other scenes as Azog that could be put into the EE:

"There's an extended cut of An Unexpected Journey coming out this Christmas. Will it contain any bonus Azog?
No, because when I was brought in they'd already cut the film. For some of the scenes I had to move through frames doing actions that would be placed over the top of Conan's performance. It got pretty frantic while we were in ADR, finding the voice for the character. The sound guys were chucking in leopard growls and dropping my voice right down to super-deep baritone."
(From http://www.empireonline.com/interviews/interview.asp?IID=1660)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 3:21pm

Post #28 of 60 (343 views)
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We re having a joke but [In reply to] Can't Post

i wouldnt be surprised at all...if the legions of Rosgobel came fourth to defend their woodland realm.

I am not a fan of the idea or the actual finished result, but i would surely love to try them one day.Cool

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jun 19 2013, 3:21pm)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 19 2013, 3:59pm

Post #29 of 60 (330 views)
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Poop [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yes, i changed my make up, im glad you liked it, i am very fond of it myself.

It is a symbol of my hope that Radagast will summon an avalanche of Rrrrrrrrosgabel Rrrrrabbits against the Nazgul or The undead orcs of Dol Guldur. Laugh

Hopefully, that will scare the poop out of the necromancer Tongue


Great. Just great. More poop for Radagast's cranial collection. Be careful what you ask for!


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 19 2013, 4:09pm

Post #30 of 60 (358 views)
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The Balrog Taboo [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm hoping for more Azanulbizar. Azog carving his name into Thror's head, more Thrain, and I'd love some wide shots of the fighting resembling the artwork in the Chronicles book. Obviously a glimpse of the Balrog here seems too much to ask.


I have been meaning to ask: What is it with the Balrog taboo? The way folks pine for the Balrog, and I agree by the way, why would Jackson allude to it with the briefest hint of light in Moria and be completely unwilling to actually mention or show it? That's the gist of it that I get from the laments about how the writers have changed things. What's Jackson's motivation to not use the Balrog at all? Is it a legal thing - or what? It's just so very odd, considering it was in full view and well established in The Lord of the Rings. Are they deliberately omitting the Balrog for the full reveal to come in Fellowship of the Ring? What's the point? It's a big part of the Dwarf backstory.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 19 2013, 4:51pm

Post #31 of 60 (309 views)
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I'd not be surprised either [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really curious about how this Dol Guldor subplot is going to play out anyway.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 19 2013, 4:54pm

Post #32 of 60 (337 views)
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I suspect... [In reply to] Can't Post

it does have something to do with the Fellowship reveal, but I find it remarkable we won't get at least a hint of Durin's Bane in these films, given its relevance to the Dwarfs. It's definitely not a legal thing, since the passage is found in the Appendices. I still think it may be worked into Thrain's backstory somehow (given there's a suggestion Gandalf originally finds him in Moria - presumably he finds his way into there after the battle). Perhaps seeing it is what sends him mad?

I really liked someone's idea about Dain telling Balin about what he saw at Azanulbizar at the end of TABA (work in more flashbacks here), before Balin sets off for Moria. Would certainly be a nice link with FOTR, and a hint at the dark events to come. It would also explain why the Dwarves didn't pursue the retreating Orcs into Moria.

My concern is that Jackson doesn't believe the Balrog to be essential to the plot of the films. If he feels a hint of Durin's Bane would only really serve the interests of book fans, then it would be perfect for an extended edition.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Jun 19 2013, 4:55pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 8:15pm

Post #33 of 60 (276 views)
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If this had been [In reply to] Can't Post

an entirely children aimed production, i wouldnt be surprised if the flocks of little birds radagast seems to be too familiar with, would join the struggle against the old fortress, thus protecting the WC's first wave of strikes, by swiftly showering the army of undead orcs and wights with birds droppings.

Toilet humour at its highest level, a military strike.Tongue

Something for the magical trees of mirkwood to pnder for a long, long time : the consistency of the rosgobel droppings that turned the tid at the Battle for Dol Guldur.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 8:17pm

Post #34 of 60 (279 views)
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But wouldt that require Dains presence at [In reply to] Can't Post

azanulbizar?

Sdaly he wasnt there in the film.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 19 2013, 8:25pm

Post #35 of 60 (267 views)
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We didn't see him there in the film [In reply to] Can't Post

But that doesn't mean that he wasn't there.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 8:29pm

Post #36 of 60 (261 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

but they went out of their way to have at least one brief frame of Bolg, who, we know will resurface sometime in the future. So will Dain.

Why not include just a shot of Dain hammering some orcs down? Wasnt he there in NZ at the time...

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 19 2013, 8:31pm

Post #37 of 60 (265 views)
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I didn't say that they will consider him having been there [In reply to] Can't Post

Only that they could.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 8:53pm

Post #38 of 60 (252 views)
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Apparently [In reply to] Can't Post

they didnt.

I would be surprised if they mention it now.

Unless they shoot a scene there, form Dains perspective, perhaps involving the fabled Durins Bane.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 19 2013, 9:26pm

Post #39 of 60 (244 views)
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That's what I had in mind [In reply to] Can't Post

You'd see the final stages of the battle, perhaps with Dain trying to pursue Azog into Moria and sighting the Balrog.


Thranduil05
The Shire


Jun 19 2013, 11:36pm

Post #40 of 60 (232 views)
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My opinion... [In reply to] Can't Post

While I do hope it is 'fleshed out' a bit more, I don't ant anything too vital in there. I was a bit disappointed with how many crucial things were missed out the original cut of LotR.

I'm intrigued as to see what this nudity is about! Only intrigued, not looking forward to! Not sure if I could stomach a half-naked Bombur!

On the flip side, I'd like to see Bolg but I doubt very much that we'll get to see him until DoS at the earliest.

Thranduil

Such is the nature of evil, in time, all foul things come forth.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 20 2013, 1:54am

Post #41 of 60 (208 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

a flashback? Dain telling to the dwarves or Balin, especially after hes king?

It would warn Balin of the danger lurking in Moria...

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Elizabeth
Valinor


Jun 20 2013, 8:01am

Post #42 of 60 (199 views)
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A hint is more than enough. [In reply to] Can't Post

Think of the generations of people who will see the Hobbit first!

There is really no need for the Balrog in TH. He would only detract from Smaug, who needs to be the centerpiece scary creature in this trilogy.








dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 20 2013, 2:03pm

Post #43 of 60 (192 views)
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Well, as someone who really likes the film already.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just looking forward to a time when there will be more of it to like. So yes, in that sense more likeable!

For me, I'm really looking forward to the extended version because I remember how exciting the previous ones were. Haveing watched the films over and over in the Theatrical cuts it was so exciting to be presented with new scenes - all the more so because so many filled out the sections I had really missed - like Faramir and Eowyn in the third film, or Sam and Frodo watching the elves ride through the woods in the first. A lot of my favourite scenes come fromt he extended cuts. I hope the AUJ EE will include some of the scenes we've read about but not seen. Little Bilbo at the Old Took's party; Bilbo in Rivendell. Generally lots more quiet moments, more character development. And if those things are added it may go some way towards pleasing the people who feel the Theatrical version has too much action.

But I'm afraid there are some people whose dislike of the film is becoming more entrenched and more vehement all the time and I doubt very much if any alteration would make much difference to them. They don't like Peter Jackson's Hobbit - end of story.


Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 20 2013, 2:16pm

Post #44 of 60 (173 views)
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I so agree Dormouse... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm just looking forward to a time when there will be more of it to like. So yes, in that sense more likeable!

For me, I'm really looking forward to the extended version because I remember how exciting the previous ones were. Haveing watched the films over and over in the Theatrical cuts it was so exciting to be presented with new scenes - all the more so because so many filled out the sections I had really missed - like Faramir and Eowyn in the third film, or Sam and Frodo watching the elves ride through the woods in the first. A lot of my favourite scenes come fromt he extended cuts. I hope the AUJ EE will include some of the scenes we've read about but not seen. Little Bilbo at the Old Took's party; Bilbo in Rivendell. Generally lots more quiet moments, more character development. And if those things are added it may go some way towards pleasing the people who feel the Theatrical version has too much action.

But I'm afraid there are some people whose dislike of the film is becoming more entrenched and more vehement all the time and I doubt very much if any alteration would make much difference to them. They don't like Peter Jackson's Hobbit - end of story.




With your whole post. As someone very happy with it, the EE will just be some extra icing. I do fully expect some quiet, character development moments especially in this film, as the story and cast is being set up for later on. (Speaking for myself I thought many of the 'action' scenes provided character moments too.) You are correct though, for anyone who simply does not care for the film I doubt EE will make much difference. I think there are plenty of us who will really love it though.

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 20 2013, 4:55pm

Post #45 of 60 (140 views)
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At least a hint [In reply to] Can't Post

AinurOlorin and I have had this discussion a few times but the Balrog needs a hint at least. Some kind of comment by Dain and a showing of some kind that they cannot take Moria back because of him.



Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 20 2013, 5:05pm

Post #46 of 60 (136 views)
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Disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think he needs a mention or reference. Would I like it? Absolutely. But I don't think it's necessary. In fact, I think not showing him will make Balin's return to Moria more ambiguous. It'll only then be in FOTR that the audience will realize that it was unsuccessful and then find out why.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Elessar
Valinor


Jun 20 2013, 5:11pm

Post #47 of 60 (134 views)
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I disagree with your disagree lol [In reply to] Can't Post

He does. There is a reason why the retaking of Moria fails and its because of The Balrog. I think the audience needs to know that going there will potentially be folly and when they see The Fellowship (if they haven't) they will see Dain was right in that it was. It works with what Tolkien created and makes things flow even better. If it doesn't happen I won't go crazy but I will be disappointed. It's one of those its in the books moments I want to see. lol



Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 20 2013, 5:17pm

Post #48 of 60 (131 views)
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I'd like to see it too [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't get me wrong. I just don't think it has to happen.

Yes, the balrog is the reason that Moria can't be retaken, but the audience doesn't know that until the balrog is seen in FOTR (whether reading books or watching movies first). It's not until one reads the appendices that one gets this backstory. So no, it doesn't have to be there, IMO.

If we're going for preferences, though, I'd have loved to have seen a glimpse of him. But then I'd have loved to have a far more accurate depiction of Azanulbizar and Dain's ominous words. It would have been wonderful. I doubt we'll get any of that in the EE, though.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Elessar
Valinor


Jun 20 2013, 5:27pm

Post #49 of 60 (126 views)
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Maybe film three [In reply to] Can't Post

Right you have to read the appendices to get that but I think it makes what happens in Moria sadder. I think it adds importance to Gimli's reaction and Gandalf's fear of going there. If its not there you still have a powerful moment but this is my windmill for these movies. Lol

I agree. I loved the battle but so,etching closer to the book would have been a but better. I don't know if we'll get that in the EE but maybe film three when Dain shows up.



Escapist
Gondor


Jun 20 2013, 5:43pm

Post #50 of 60 (115 views)
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I agree that it isn't necessary. [In reply to] Can't Post

So the questions are: How would it fit and what would it add to the main story?

It seems like it might just take that one extra step out of the main events and backstory pertinent to the reclaiming of Erebor and challenging of Dol Guldur.

The way the ancient battle for Moria was handled involved a villain that comes back to haunt them in the actual events of AUJ (and apaprently DoS as well from the trailer - and most likely also TaBA). If it had been the Balrog instead, that might have made that flashback just a tad more OT and feel just a wee bit more like book fanservice and "padding".

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