Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
should the hobbit have even been made into these films?
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

demnation
Rohan

Jun 19 2013, 7:00am

Post #26 of 91 (298 views)
Shortcut
I see [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn has always been a little "vanilla" for my taste, but thankfully Tolkien has a few dozen other characters for us to latch onto!

Agree about movie Aragorn, but I do have to commend Viggo for giving it his all. Smile

My Sam Gamgee is indeed a reflexion of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself- J.R.R. Tolkien


emre43
Lorien

Jun 19 2013, 8:19am

Post #27 of 91 (295 views)
Shortcut
Brilliantly said [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
when I heard PJ announce it all those years ago.

To begin at the beginning: I think it depends on when you first read the book. A lot of people (although not everyone) who read the book as children, have starry-eyed memories of it and it means so much to them because they associate it with childhood enchantment. They can find it painful to have those images punctured by someone else's imagination.

Others, like me, read it after LotR: it suffered by comparison and I didn't like it very much although I appreciated that it contained great moments like Riddles in the Dark and the conversation with Smaug.

The reason why I initially didn't want PJ to make it was because, after LotR, it seemed like a backward step. I also didn't see how any production could satisfy childhood memories and that it would also suffer from odious comparisons with LotR just as the book of TH suffered in my case after reading Tolkien's greatest work.

I changed my mind a few years ago after following the efforts made to put it on screen, watching the vlogs and discussing it here and elsewhere. I read it through three times on various forums as a group read and I thought about the Appendices. I decided two things: that it COULD be made and give satisfaction to me and others if the Appendices were included and if characterisation was better than in the book. I also thought that the Appendices should be seen as a stepping stone from one book to the other - almost a letter from Tolkien saying "OK, you guys, if you really must insist on doing it then here are a few clues."

I must also say that, just because I had my doubts, I would never have deprived others of the pleasure by insisting that the film shouldn't be made. There's always the "off" button for those who think PJ has done it all wrong - no need to interfere with other people's needs and enjoyment.

Now that PJ has made the film, I am very thrilled. I totally appreciate the difficulties he has been faced with and my personal opinion is that he has risen to the challenge.

Glorfindela says that the trick is to separate the book from the film. I would agree that this is one way. My trick is a lot more difficult: I try to imagine that I have never read TH and that I have never seen the films or read the book of LotR - that AUJ is the first step in a long journey. I just can't wait to have all 6 films in my hands so that I can watch the story from the beginning and see it getting grander and darker and more epic until it reaches its fabulous conclusion.



ShireHorse
Rohan

Jun 19 2013, 10:07am

Post #28 of 91 (288 views)
Shortcut
Thanks, emre. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't usually look forward to opening notifications that someone has replied to my post because they often involve a punch on the nose, LOL! Yours was a nice surprise.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 19 2013, 11:22am

Post #29 of 91 (294 views)
Shortcut
No [In reply to] Can't Post

after watching the results. imo the Hobbit trilogy will be derided as a cinematic failure in 10 years time (not withstanding the cash made). Unlike LOTR which in 10 years time will be still loved.
I wish the Hobbit had been left alone, or filmed on its own merit, ie filmed following the book and without additions. Changes I can accept, an adaptation I can understand, but wholesale madeup padding gleaned from scarce notes is hard to take specially when the dialogue suffers and the action sequences dont feel remotely Tolkienesque.
Once WB was in charge there was a snowballs chance in the hot place of the Hobbit being subtle.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 19 2013, 11:23am)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jun 19 2013, 3:03pm

Post #30 of 91 (248 views)
Shortcut
Oh yes. The performances were top-notch. [In reply to] Can't Post

Even when I hated how they wrote the character (Merry and Pippin are two more), I thought the actors did a fine job portraying what they were asked to portray. I was completely happy with the casting.

But now we're drifting away from the Hobbit, so I will add that I am also completely happy with the casting in these films, too. Even (especially) younger Thorin.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jun 19 2013, 3:04pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jun 19 2013, 3:06pm

Post #31 of 91 (259 views)
Shortcut
I'm not sure about blaming WB. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think by now Peter Jackson has enough clout that he doesn't have to take orders from WB, their financing notwithstanding.

I think the overblown action and weak characterization is because that's the way the screenwriters want it.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 3:25pm

Post #32 of 91 (255 views)
Shortcut
Jackson seems to be now [In reply to] Can't Post

the sort of almost infallible man in the industry that studio executives look forward to work with and who actually has quite a bit leverage and no longer needs to "beg" anymore.

So, i would attribute any faults to the director and the writers, rather than WB.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 19 2013, 3:31pm

Post #33 of 91 (239 views)
Shortcut
All I'll say [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that's definitely a bit of an uninformed opinion. WB are like Godzilla to New Line's bambi.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Jun 19 2013, 3:34pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 19 2013, 3:40pm

Post #34 of 91 (224 views)
Shortcut
do you think the tone [In reply to] Can't Post

of the film would have been the same then if WB had not been financially in control? from just looking at the marketing stuff its very different quality to LOTR imho. PJ must have had, lets call it feedback, from the suits, TH looks very much part of the WB stable, it looks to me distinctly WB in the visual look of the product. could be wrong but thats my opinion.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 19 2013, 3:43pm

Post #35 of 91 (228 views)
Shortcut
I am aware of WB's track record [In reply to] Can't Post

and some of the differences between them and NL.

Yes it is uninformed as i have no connection to this world.

However, Jacksons' and the writers decisions to push for Azog, his dialogue and scenes, Radagast, the way he shot the action scenes, and many other aspects, i would wager come from creative decisions made by the director and writers.

I can see WB implying and requiring certain general aspects of the adaptation to be fulfilled.

Such as the three movie split : $$

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jun 19 2013, 3:44pm)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 19 2013, 3:50pm

Post #36 of 91 (229 views)
Shortcut
Frankly, I'm surprised [In reply to] Can't Post

they didn't start out with three movies in the first place. It would have been a no-brainer to me if I was looking to make money out of the franchise and knew from the beginning that back-story would be added. Remember, though, that changing Bolg to Bolg-and-Azog was a direct result of the split, and that was all WB, not Jackson and the screenwriters. They did the very best they could with the marching orders they were given.

I personally love Azog, but agree that AUJ would have been more polished if that decision would have come sooner, if not from the get-go.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Jun 19 2013, 3:57pm)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 19 2013, 4:24pm

Post #37 of 91 (209 views)
Shortcut
Whose Idea? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...changing Bolg to Bolg-and-Azog was a direct result of the split, and that was all WB, not Jackson and the screenwriters. They did the very best they could with the marching orders they were given.

I personally love Azog, but agree that AUJ would have been more polished if that decision would have come sooner, if not from the get-go.


Yes, the Azog that Boyens said that they used for the purely superficial reason that the name was too cool to not use.

That is contray to the party line given by Jackson, et al, when the split was announced. All the cynicism was directed at the extra dollars WB would collect due to making it three films instead of two. Jackson & Co were quick to WB's defense, taking full responsibility for the idea because they had so much material to work with and they wanted to do justice to the story that they had to tell. WB was simply convinced. Was that not the truth?


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 19 2013, 4:38pm

Post #38 of 91 (206 views)
Shortcut
Of course [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
That is contray to the party line given by Jackson, et al, when the split was announced. Jackson & Co were quick to WB's defense...


Of course it is, and of course they were. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. It would have been very bad form (if not downright career damaging) for Jackson to imply anything other than unbridled delight. PJ always has loads of extra scenes filmed, but Azog wasn't in any of them until the split was announced. That's the most telling part that they weren't prepared for it and hadn't planned to include Azog until the last minute. Other timing and score issues point to the same thing.








Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





Escapist
Gondor


Jun 19 2013, 4:44pm

Post #39 of 91 (203 views)
Shortcut
That sounds reasonable to me! [In reply to] Can't Post

It makes me suspect that Azog will be a lot better in DoS and TaBA.

It was a tough call, I'm sure. But I would rather have Azog as he is in DoS than not. I think he adds a lot to that movie in spite of whatever my nitpicking on picky details might communicate.

But by the same token, I am glad that there weren't too many other "last minute additions" because time matters when it comes to everything from editing to character development.


Voronw_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 19 2013, 4:47pm

Post #40 of 91 (202 views)
Shortcut
The evidence really doesn't support the idea that the 3-film split was WB's 'marching orders' [In reply to] Can't Post

While I am quite sure that WB was more than happy to reap the benefit, it seems pretty clear to me that the decision to go to 3 films was Jackson and the other filmmakers. I followed the statements made pretty closely and saw no sign that Jackson and Boyens were covering for WB; there statements regarding the reasons why they moved to three films, and why they included Azog, seemed quite genuine to me (much as I disliked some aspects of the result).

Consider this statement by Philippa Boyens (which I think is quite a bit more nuanced than JWPLatt suggests):


Quote

I love Azog, Azog the Defiler. Because we just loved that name and he is a character that we just loved that back story and thought we cant have him be dead, were going to keep him alive. So we enjoyed that bringing him back. And I think we do that quite powerfully, hes got a good journey to go on.



That does not sound like someone reluctantly doing the best they could on marching orders; that sounds like someone with a story they genuinely want to tell.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


emre43
Lorien

Jun 19 2013, 4:55pm

Post #41 of 91 (192 views)
Shortcut
Hehe same here [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


Passagas the Brown
The Shire

Jun 19 2013, 5:44pm

Post #42 of 91 (185 views)
Shortcut
The exact same directorial style utilized in LOTR is present in TH [In reply to] Can't Post

The only difference is that PJ was free to use far more CGI, free to throw his camera wherever he wanted, and free to shoot in all digital. These freedoms simply exaggerated his previous style, which led to what is, IMO, a very disappointing film.

If WB was calling a lot of the shots, we would certainly not have gotten the surprisingly long (and satisfying) opening to the Hobbit, full of dwarf singing, etc.

No, I think AUJ's faults lie primarily with the director, and his team.


bborchar
Rohan


Jun 19 2013, 8:17pm

Post #43 of 91 (159 views)
Shortcut
Why wouldn't it? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
of the film would have been the same then if WB had not been financially in control? from just looking at the marketing stuff its very different quality to LOTR imho. PJ must have had, lets call it feedback, from the suits, TH looks very much part of the WB stable, it looks to me distinctly WB in the visual look of the product. could be wrong but thats my opinion.


PJ did it like he wanted to. WB knew it would be a cash cow however it was made...they didn't say "It's has to be an action flick!" to him.


「さようなら、ミスターホームズ」〜アイリーンアダラーのメール

「ベルグレービアの醜聞」


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 19 2013, 8:36pm

Post #44 of 91 (169 views)
Shortcut
So..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you reckon that the people who really appreciate and enjoy The Hobbit now - and there are plenty who do - are going to be deriding it as a failure in 10 years time? I doubt that very much. Why do you think our opinions will change so radically? - after all, deriding something as a cinematic failure is a whole lot stronger that just going off it, or reassessing it in the light of new technology.

I'd say that the very few people who are deriding it now will probably still be deriding it. The larger number who are critical of it will still be critical. The people who love it now will still love it then, and somewhere in the middle there will be people who have forgotten it in enjoying other films, and maybe some who didn't like it at first but have come to like it on repeated viewing. Others still who have seen it later, on TV or DVD.

To be honest, the derision of the film is something I really don't understand. Disliking it, being critical of it or disappointed in it, feeling that it didn't succeed on this or that count, all those things I can understand. But the personal vehemence implied in 'deriding' leaves me baffled.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 19 2013, 8:42pm

Post #45 of 91 (178 views)
Shortcut
fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

lets meet up here in 10 years time, and if I am wrong I will apologize for being hasty. I will go so far as to eat a plate of testicles on toast in punishment Wink


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 19 2013, 8:55pm

Post #46 of 91 (172 views)
Shortcut
I never thought I'd hear THAT said on TORn [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I will go so far as to eat a plate of testicles on toast in punishment



You certainly aren't afraid to shirk from your opinion Elanorflower!


This is not a very interesting signature is it?


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 19 2013, 9:13pm

Post #47 of 91 (145 views)
Shortcut
WB Wants [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...they didn't say "It's has to be an action flick!" to him.


How do you know this for fact? Did you mean "probably?" I'm all for giving Peter Jackson full responsibility as captain of his own ship and making his own decisions, but WB doesn't seem the type to be shy about what they want.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 19 2013, 9:15pm

Post #48 of 91 (157 views)
Shortcut
Reference [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a reference to some bit of Hobbit news recently, I think. I just forget what it was about.


bborchar
Rohan


Jun 19 2013, 9:43pm

Post #49 of 91 (135 views)
Shortcut
One or the other... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
...they didn't say "It's has to be an action flick!" to him.


How do you know this for fact? Did you mean "probably?" I'm all for giving Peter Jackson full responsibility as captain of his own ship and making his own decisions, but WB doesn't seem the type to be shy about what they want.


So...he has full responsibility but it's also WB's fault?

"But, oh wait, Peter Jackson is a Producer, Writer and Director. This suggests not a shoddy production, but a brilliant master plan worthy of Sauron to do exactly what he wanted all along - three movies, extended editions and a lot of cool extras - as scripted. "


「さようなら、ミスターホームズ」〜アイリーンアダラーのメール

「ベルグレービアの醜聞」

(This post was edited by bborchar on Jun 19 2013, 9:44pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 19 2013, 10:11pm

Post #50 of 91 (138 views)
Shortcut
Goodness - I wouldn't ask that of anyone!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just the toast will do, topping of your choice and no apology needed... Tongue

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.