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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will we at some point get to see something of what GdT's vision of TH would have looked like?
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DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jun 17 2013, 9:55pm

Post #1 of 40 (960 views)
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Will we at some point get to see something of what GdT's vision of TH would have looked like? Can't Post

GdT must have come up with loads of stuff before his departure - concept art, drawings, miniatures, puppets, etc. All this must still exist somewhere. Do you think that we at some point get to see some of it? In an EE feature, maybe? I'm just dying to find out what the movies would have been like with GdT at the helm (just imagine if we could have had two versions of this film series - yeah, impossible, I know, but one can always dream).

Also, it would have been very interesting to find out what casting choices GdT would have made. Obviously, Freeman was the first choice for both GdT and PJ. GdT also had roles in mind for both Ron Perlman and Doug Jones. Other than that, not much is known.

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Proudfeet!
Bree


Jun 17 2013, 10:02pm

Post #2 of 40 (550 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would make a good special feature and gallery.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 17 2013, 10:07pm

Post #3 of 40 (519 views)
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Pearlman seems a natural fit for Beorn... [In reply to] Can't Post

Doug Jones, probably a creature of some kind. Perhaps even Thranduil?

Anywho, I think at least some of the concept art we've already seen predated GdT's departure, but agreed that hopefully we'll get a more concrete idea of what his TH would have been like (perhaps on the EE release)?

Here's a comment from GdT concerning stuff he showed to James Cameron, I believe back in 2009:

"...very strong designs and maquettes: GOBLINS and their environment, SMAUG (fully designed but without final color / texture), SPIDERS OF MIRKWOOD, MIRKWOOD, STONE TROLLS, WARGS, IRON HILL DWARVES, GUNDABAD ARMY, THRANDUILL’S THRONE ROOM etc, etc"

Though I doubt they will I hope some storyboards or even scripts for earlier versions of TH surface at some point.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 17 2013, 10:25pm

Post #4 of 40 (500 views)
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I know he was responsible for Mcoy's casting, and he talked to Brian Blessed, and Ian Mcshane about playing Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

(Incidently both of those actors are in their late 60's/early 60's so Del Torro seems to have had a very different version of Thorin in mind).

On the Hobbit film trilogy wikipedia entry, there is a lengthy paragraph on Del Torro's interpretation-with numerous links to interviews and articles its defintely worth checking out (he reportedly wanted animatronic orcs, and a digitally replaced sky to show the passing of the seasons for instance):

http://en.wikipedia.org/...opment_with_del_Toro

(Scroll down to sections 2-2.4)

I maintain that as a newcomer to the series Del Torro would have made a better Hobbit film (In the sense of replicating the book's tone, and largely stand alone nature) though not necessarily a better film overall. I thought he was a great choice, and I'm hoping that he will be given the chance to do his own version in 20 or 30 years time (if he feels the same way that is) if he feels inclined. Though I'd rather any future adaptations were made as TV series.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 10:37pm

Post #5 of 40 (482 views)
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I'm very glad PJ is making The Hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

He understands Middle-Earth and his casting choices, including that of Richard Armitage as Thorin, have been great so far (in my opinion of course).

One of the reasons I wasn't initially that interested in The Hobbit was that I thought someone other than PJ would be making the film.


MEIGWIT
Bree


Jun 17 2013, 10:48pm

Post #6 of 40 (452 views)
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Agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I can only imagine how much more complaining there would be had GDT gotten his hands on the finished Hobbit! We would never hear the end of it! "I don't know why they couldn't have stuck with the gritty realism of LOTR! It's like it was a completely different director or something!" Tongue In all seriousness though, PJ did give us a different view of Middle Earth all on his own. And it all came from The Hobbit having a different tone as a novel. Lucky for us, casting, cinematography and style all stays the same and it will make a beautiful set of six films that fit nicely together! Also, I just love PJ anyways!

It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 17 2013, 11:02pm

Post #7 of 40 (453 views)
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I was glad Peter Jackson was always attached as a producer, but I'm not going to lie I was very excited that Del Torro was taking the reins [In reply to] Can't Post

Purely becuase I have always viewed The Hobbit as laregely seperate book to LOTR-I know I'm in the minorirty on this, I was more excited about seeing a new spin on things and a new story rather than the same bag of tricks replayed for a mere prequel to LOTR. I do agree that PJ understands Tolkien in the way many filmakers wouldn't-But Del Torro made it very clear he appreciated The Hobbit primarily on its own merits, as do I, and arguably a filmaker who put Bilbo's story first and foremost above tying the franchise togather, is what The book of the hobbit needed from an adaption.-though of course this is all hypothetical (I would have LOVED to have seen a animtronic Smaug though!)

In anycase whilst Jackson has made four (well three and a half IMO) great films, and introduced Tolkien to many, I truly believe the franchise is bigger than one man, and I hope we see many more interepretations of the books (Well the The Hobbit and LOTR at least, The other books would have to change too much to work on screen) in future years.

All my opinion, in no way right or wrong, better or worse than yours.

I do agree on the casting though (apart from Armitage-though that's more to do with the way they are shaping movie Thorin) Lee Pace, Martin Freeman, Jimmy Nesbitt, Ken Stott...its great.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 17 2013, 11:19pm

Post #8 of 40 (446 views)
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Those two actors [In reply to] Can't Post

for Thorin, what a treat it would have been. They would own every scene just with their presence and voice.

Toro's version of Thorin, it seems is much mor like the Right Thorin that Tolkien wrote rather than a cliched aragorn junior. Even if he's got a great singing voice.

I sincerely hope we can see some of his ideas, designs for TH.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Jun 17 2013, 11:31pm

Post #9 of 40 (432 views)
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if I'm a betting man [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd bet we will be getting a featurette or two on GdT's involvement on the pre-production part of the EE dvd of Unexpected Journey. I'm also hoping for a feature on splitting the films from 2 to 3. Or do you think they are going to wait until the 3rd film to talk about that?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

(This post was edited by There&ThereAgain on Jun 17 2013, 11:31pm)


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 18 2013, 12:07am

Post #10 of 40 (389 views)
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I actually think Del Torro's hobbit could be the subject of its own documentary [In reply to] Can't Post

Like Lost in la Mancha (a documentary exploring Terry Gilliam's abadoned The Man who Killed Don Quixote film) or What could have been: (an upcoming docuementary exploring early script concepts, and unreleased deleted scenes from the harry potter films: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpNS2K5GPw0) it would make a very interesting story-what went wrong, why did it happen, what would have happened?

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


frodolives
Lorien

Jun 18 2013, 2:26am

Post #11 of 40 (347 views)
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I'll take that bet! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the chances of seeing some extra features about Del Toro's take are about as likely as seeing scenes of Stuart Townsend practicing as Aragorn.


deskp
Lorien

Jun 18 2013, 5:04am

Post #12 of 40 (312 views)
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nah [In reply to] Can't Post

It's much more likely since GDT's departure seems more fair, and he was credited in the movie aswell.


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 18 2013, 5:10am

Post #13 of 40 (316 views)
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I doubt it [In reply to] Can't Post

I like GDT but I think he's a better fit for stuff like Hellboy and Pacific Rim. I just never felt 100% comfortable behind him doing The Hobbit so I didn't mind seeing him leave and Jackson moving on in.



bborchar
Rohan


Jun 18 2013, 1:52pm

Post #14 of 40 (255 views)
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Eeh, not me.. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Doug Jones, probably a creature of some kind. Perhaps even Thranduil?

Anywho, I think at least some of the concept art we've already seen predated GdT's departure, but agreed that hopefully we'll get a more concrete idea of what his TH would have been like (perhaps on the EE release)?

Here's a comment from GdT concerning stuff he showed to James Cameron, I believe back in 2009:

"...very strong designs and maquettes: GOBLINS and their environment, SMAUG (fully designed but without final color / texture), SPIDERS OF MIRKWOOD, MIRKWOOD, STONE TROLLS, WARGS, IRON HILL DWARVES, GUNDABAD ARMY, THRANDUILL’S THRONE ROOM etc, etc"

Though I doubt they will I hope some storyboards or even scripts for earlier versions of TH surface at some point.


I never liked the idea. Pearlman is a bit campy for my tastes.


「さようなら、ミスターホームズ」〜アイリーンアダラーのメール

「ベルグレービアの醜聞」


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 18 2013, 2:12pm

Post #15 of 40 (255 views)
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Oh crumbs, no.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Brian Blessed is hilarious but these days he's almost a send-up of himself. He is superb in panel games where he is being himself but I don't think he would have been convincing as a dwarf - it would just have been, 'Oh look, there's Brian Blessed'. He's larger than life now. He doesn't act, he just is.

As for Ian McShane, he would have ruined the film for me. Far too flat and deadpan - no character. I saw him as Merriman in the dreadful adaptation of 'The Dark is Rising' that came out a few years ago and he was pathetic - didn't capture any of the power, the mystery or the enigma of Merriman at all. If he had been Thorin I'd have been rooting for Azog! I think Richard Armitage was an inspired choice. He really understands the book and is bringing depth and subtlety to Thorin - making a real character of him.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 18 2013, 2:51pm

Post #16 of 40 (230 views)
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Me too, with regard to this [In reply to] Can't Post

I hadn't even realised Brian Blessed was still alive – he must be about a hundred years old! I haven't seen him for yonks. The only thing I remember him in is a camp SF film, the name of which escapes me.

When it comes to Ian McShane, I don't rate his acting abilities highly at all – I've seen him in things like the British TV series about a dodgy antiques dealer, the name of which, again, escapes me. His acting talents are pretty mediocre, in my view.

Either of those two would have ruined The Hobbit for me. As you say, Richard Armitage was an inspired choice and I can't wait to see what he does with Thorin's character in the next two films.


In Reply To
I think Brian Blessed is hilarious but these days he's almost a send-up of himself. He is superb in panel games where he is being himself but I don't think he would have been convincing as a dwarf - it would just have been, 'Oh look, there's Brian Blessed'. He's larger than life now. He doesn't act, he just is.

As for Ian McShane, he would have ruined the film for me. Far too flat and deadpan - no character. I saw him as Merriman in the dreadful adaptation of 'The Dark is Rising' that came out a few years ago and he was pathetic - didn't capture any of the power, the mystery or the enigma of Merriman at all. If he had been Thorin I'd have been rooting for Azog! I think Richard Armitage was an inspired choice. He really understands the book and is bringing depth and subtlety to Thorin - making a real character of him.



Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 18 2013, 3:45pm

Post #17 of 40 (227 views)
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MalickFan...Nope! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sly McCoy was up for Bilbo in 1998..only to lose out to Sir Ian Holm.
He states that in one of the interviews...
So, 7 years later GTO came on board
and it's likely PJ pushed to have in him
since he Ian McKellen play together
NICE!.
Bomby


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jun 18 2013, 3:47pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 18 2013, 4:09pm

Post #18 of 40 (252 views)
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personally I think Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

looks very GDT. must admit I have mixed feelings about it. I originally was overjoyed when PJ said he was taking over everything. But now i am not convinced it was such a good idea, after seeing the tired results. I think GDT has a more gothic vision, his characters are less cuddly and more dangerous and ambiguous. PJ seems more appropriate for the Hobbit, as he is more playful and humourous, but it can be taken too far and strays into the gross. GDT is great at strange creatures but i dont get much heart from his films. I didnt like Hellboy and Ron Perlman is ubiquitous. So all in all It had to be PJ, on paper it should have been a match made in heaven.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 18 2013, 4:11pm

Post #19 of 40 (217 views)
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Crumbs? [In reply to] Can't Post

Mcshane has more bread behind his belt than Armitage.
Hes a veteran and a very experienced. performer.

Armitage is a schoolboy next to him.

Both of them have a much greater screen presence, a gravitas. I have seen several films and tv series with him and would have largely prefered him as Thorin. Not only is he more age appropriate for the character than the young stud archetype that armitage gives, but hes far more experienced and nuanced than him. This is a role for a veteran, an experienced actor, that can literally own the role and impose himself.

The sort of actor that just makes you stop, listen and learn.

None of that cringe and forced " Azog the defiler....was slain ...LONG AGO" bluh....

There are other choices, and other older actors could have played him.

Also, it is a waste and a pity that ron perelman wasnt cast as one fo the dwarves. One of those actors who can really transform himself into a role.

Good for you if you enjoy Armitage, for me he smostly a bore of a character, an aragorn junior version of the Real Thorin Oakenshield.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 18 2013, 4:16pm

Post #20 of 40 (212 views)
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I remember that film [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dark is Rising is one of my favourite series of books. I was looking forward to it, but you are right, Ian McShane was a rubbish Merriman. Tell you who would be perfect imo, Blackfish from Game of Thrones, that actor looks like I imagine Merriman, tall and wild grey hair, bit of a Druid, and grumpy with a steely gaze. The way they used a town in Eastern Europe instead of England was weird too.


I do like McShane though and his Thorin would have been great I think.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 18 2013, 4:19pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 18 2013, 4:23pm

Post #21 of 40 (203 views)
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I haven't seen Game of Thrones... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. it isn't on any channel I can access, but the description fits.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 18 2013, 4:28pm

Post #22 of 40 (196 views)
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Another actor came to mind [In reply to] Can't Post

that actor who played the Viking Lord on the History channel series Vikings.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


LordotRings93
Rohan


Jun 18 2013, 6:28pm

Post #23 of 40 (203 views)
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Armitage has a great presence [In reply to] Can't Post

He's one of the reasons I actually care for Thorin now. When I read the book, I didn't give a hoot when he died, as he didn't seem that important in my eyes. Now, I picture Armitage's Thorin, just because of his screen presence. All his scenes are fantastic and commanding, and it's hard to look away, so obviously he does have the qualities you listed above, maybe not for you, but for me and many, many others he does. Ian McShane would've been a good choice, but in the end I'm glad we got Richard. He's just fantastic and is definitely putting his all in the character. AND he understands Tolkien at least and wants to shape him into Tolkien's character and more. McShane probably hasn't read The Hobbit, and most likely would've just did a bland take on book Thorin.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


LordotRings93
Rohan


Jun 18 2013, 6:32pm

Post #24 of 40 (186 views)
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I'm glad PJ took the reins [In reply to] Can't Post

GdT's style would've been too different. LOTR had no animatronics, so right off the bat it'd look weird and wouldn't sync too well with LOTR. I know some people want TH to be it's own thing, but I'm glad PJ is connecting it with LOTR, making it an overarching story instead of a separate film. Smaug as an animatronic probably would've looked cheesy IMO, and from what we saw in the DoS trailer, he looks great as is. Although I would like to see some of GdT's ideas.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Jun 18 2013, 7:56pm

Post #25 of 40 (157 views)
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That's a little different [In reply to] Can't Post

Townsend was just an actor, PJ and Co have been nothing been thankful for GdT's involvement. I don't think we'll get anything indepth, but possibly a small nod/2 or 3 minutes on it. I think it's relevant for also discussing why Peter took up the reigns again too!

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas

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