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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
History repeating itself
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Carnivoran
The Shire

Jun 17 2013, 2:24am

Post #51 of 62 (234 views)
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Disappointed.....in posters [In reply to] Can't Post

As a lurker, I must say I am a bit disappointed with some of the posters. In my mind, if you are going to review something, there should be some indication of what you like about the work as well as what you dislike. My point is that there is no attempt at balance. I am assuming that these people don't hate EVERYTHING about the Hobbit films.

Although I agree with the OTT action and the overuse of CGI, I think PJ has done a lot right.

I love how Mirkwood looks, but I do agree that you can tell it is CGI and not a miniature.

I guess my point is that PJ has not done EVERYTHING wrong with the Hobbit films. I do think he keeps fans in mind, but he also has to keep in mind his career.

I also believe that the nature of The Hobbit as a story does not lend itself to a lot of depth. Perhaps if Tolkien did rewrite it in the tone of LotR, we would have a different film.

In conclusion, I am not saying that you can't/shouldn't complain. What I am saying is that if you do happen to like something about the films, throw that in somewhere along the way. I think it brings credit and balance to a post.

Anyway, back to being a lurker.....


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 17 2013, 5:49am

Post #52 of 62 (198 views)
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The Hobbit story [In reply to] Can't Post

GGI/props/makeup flaws aside ... I really didn't notice them, so far, most of the basics are there with some relatively minor (IMHO) alterations... and some additional non-canon materiel and materiel from the appendices-
-The Unexpected Party
-The Trolls
-Rivendell and moon runes on the map
-Goblintown
-Riddles in the Dark
-The Fir Trees and being rescued by the eagles

I think that in going from 2 to 3 movies, he had to stretch AUJ a bit as there was really only enough materiel for 2 and 1/2 movies, thus we get the incessant running/fleeing from Azog subplot to stretch it out a bit. Had it been 2 very long movies as opposed to 3, I firmly believed AUJ would have been much better, and the Azog subplot could have been omitted. So much materiel was taken from AUJ to make DOS, it nerfed it. However, with the exception of Azog's subplot, when all 3 films are watched as a whole, I think it will be highly regarded in much the same way LOTR was.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Aragorn the Elfstone
Grey Havens


Jun 17 2013, 6:08am

Post #53 of 62 (190 views)
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re: Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

I sadly have to agree. Azog is the thorn in my side when it comes to this trilogy (or at least AUJ). It's not that it's a change from Tolkien cannon, it's the fact that you can tell the subplot was a late addition to pad out AUJ. But it doesn't really work. Azog is a painfully two dimensional villain, and the showdown between him and Thorin does not achieve the big "climax" the film is trying to have. It's outrageously obvious that the film is actually only about two-thirds finished, with a newly shot "ending" to wrap things up and roll credits. I trust that DOS and TABA will not suffer quite the same fate, since the filmmakers have more time to refine them. But I'm always going to wonder how that two film version of The Hobbit would have turned out.

Nothing to be done about it now, I guess. Unsure

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 6:59am

Post #54 of 62 (201 views)
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I think this is essentially accurate to the point of being a near perfect summation. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
GGI/props/makeup flaws aside ... I really didn't notice them, so far, most of the basics are there with some relatively minor (IMHO) alterations... and some additional non-canon materiel and materiel from the appendices-
-The Unexpected Party
-The Trolls
-Rivendell and moon runes on the map
-Goblintown
-Riddles in the Dark
-The Fir Trees and being rescued by the eagles

I think that in going from 2 to 3 movies, he had to stretch AUJ a bit as there was really only enough materiel for 2 and 1/2 movies, thus we get the incessant running/fleeing from Azog subplot to stretch it out a bit. Had it been 2 very long movies as opposed to 3, I firmly believed AUJ would have been much better, and the Azog subplot could have been omitted. So much materiel was taken from AUJ to make DOS, it nerfed it. However, with the exception of Azog's subplot, when all 3 films are watched as a whole, I think it will be highly regarded in much the same way LOTR was.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 17 2013, 7:57am

Post #55 of 62 (162 views)
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ty [In reply to] Can't Post

for your support LOL Wink


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 17 2013, 8:08am

Post #56 of 62 (158 views)
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Think about this too [In reply to] Can't Post

If he had eliminated or seriously edited the Dol Guldur sub plot and thus the Azog plotline, it would have been a solid 2 movies. Don't get me wrong, I liked adding stuff from the appendices and I actully enjoyed Radaghast contrary to my pre-fil apprehensions, but PJ could have still included that and Dol Guldur/White Council with a few minor edits here and there and turned out 2 spectacular movies


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jun 17 2013, 9:03am

Post #57 of 62 (148 views)
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Agreed... [In reply to] Can't Post

That would have been my preferred option. I was always excited about including the DG subplot, but I don't think any of us expected the amount of reinvention PJ has given us with the condensed timeline, Nazgul tombs and rewriting of Dwarf history, particularly in terms of how Thrain's backstory fits in all of this. A leaner, tighter WC/DG subplot and scrubbing of Azog could have made a 2-film Hobbit even better.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 17 2013, 10:53am

Post #58 of 62 (136 views)
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I expected to see [In reply to] Can't Post

something wonderful. My expectations were high. I expected Weta magic, I imagined it would be awesome, I was bitterly disappointed.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 10:57am

Post #59 of 62 (138 views)
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I think I was the same as you, come to think of it, HamSammy [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe I was on these boards when the LOTR films came out, but they looked very different from the way they do now. I also don't remember my username/password. I was additionally registered with a couple of other sites – one seemed too puritanical for my liking, so I soon left. I don't know why I stopped visiting TORN – it was before ROTK came out, and I don't think I was banned!

I do remember some lengthy arguments on the subjects highlighted by the OP, though, particularly before TTT came out.

I think the issue with The Hobbit is that some people had massively high expectations, and a specific pov on what the film should be and look like. Inevitably, when one has such expectations, one is always disappointed. I had no expectations since I didn't particularly want to see a Tolkien children's book version of The Hobbit, complete with 'garden gnomes', and I am absolutely delighted with the film.


In Reply To
That's what I should have said and didn't. That was my observation as you stated there Silverlode. I was on the boards back then but don't remember my username. I had to re register after so many years but yes, I remember some people feeling the filmmaking was not proper or good and so you are exactly spot on, materially the arguments haven't changed.



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jun 17 2013, 11:01am)


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 17 2013, 1:50pm

Post #60 of 62 (116 views)
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Yup [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember the outrage in particular over the whole Arwen story line from the beginning and particularly how she bumped Glorfindel's spot there at the Ford of Bruinen. LOL. All in all it's all good we all have our level of expectations and to me movies are art and you either enjoy them or not. Discussion is good. I enjoyed AUJ very much so and I also get that there are those who just don't like it and for me that's fine. I think the main thing is there's really nothing new undert the sun.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 2:21pm

Post #61 of 62 (119 views)
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AUJ as 2/3 a film [In reply to] Can't Post

The other day I finally sat down to watch AUJ for the first time since theaters, and though there was a lot that stood up better when knowing what to expect, it felt like the film just stopped rather than having been structured to end at a certain point.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




kbdiggity
Rivendell

Jul 10 2013, 8:25am

Post #62 of 62 (25 views)
Shortcut
. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I believe I was on these boards when the LOTR films came out, but they looked very different from the way they do now. I also don't remember my username/password. I was additionally registered with a couple of other sites – one seemed too puritanical for my liking, so I soon left. I don't know why I stopped visiting TORN – it was before ROTK came out, and I don't think I was banned!

I do remember some lengthy arguments on the subjects highlighted by the OP, though, particularly before TTT came out.

I think the issue with The Hobbit is that some people had massively high expectations, and a specific pov on what the film should be and look like. Inevitably, when one has such expectations, one is always disappointed. I had no expectations since I didn't particularly want to see a Tolkien children's book version of The Hobbit, complete with 'garden gnomes', and I am absolutely delighted with the film.


In Reply To
That's what I should have said and didn't. That was my observation as you stated there Silverlode. I was on the boards back then but don't remember my username. I had to re register after so many years but yes, I remember some people feeling the filmmaking was not proper or good and so you are exactly spot on, materially the arguments haven't changed.






Yeah I stopped coming to the boards for several years after RoTK was released. By the time I found my way back here, they had overhauled the message boards and I had to reregister.

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