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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thorin at BoFA (spoilers).

Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Jun 13 2013, 3:20am

Post #1 of 7 (580 views)
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Thorin at BoFA (spoilers). Can't Post

If I remember correctly, I found an interesting element
in that we don't read anything about Thorin and our other
Dwarves until the wall comes crumbling down. From the arkenstone
to their entrance in the pivotal stage of the fight is a silent period.

What do you think Thorin was doing during this battle and what do you think
his thoughts were? I can vaguely imagine an indignant dwarf looking through
a peephole at the Thranduil/Bard led circus below when Gandalf and the
evil hosts arrive. I can then envisage a wide-eyed dwarf intensely looking through the spy hole
at the carnage below as the armies fight it out, having learned that Dain has pitched the battle
along with the Elves and Men. I'm sort of glad though that we simply don't know for sure
what our dwarves are doing in the mountain during this time. Maybe takes that long to
put the armor on.
Do you think it is interesting that it's dain that joins forces with thranduil and bard rather than thorin,
as it would be more of a contrast with Thorin showing the animosity toward them throughout?
Does Bilbo wonder where his dwarven comrades are? Thoughts? i guess bilbo forgets about
them while consumed with the battle until the wall crashes.


Arandir
Gondor


Jun 13 2013, 8:47am

Post #2 of 7 (194 views)
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This is interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

And I've never given it any serious thought until your topic. Personally, I find that his abscence during such an important scene serves as a more satisfying tool once Thorin and co jump out of the wall to fight alongside the others.

The element of surprise on the readers, as they are momentarily distracted by the unfolding events, makes the scene work much better.

And I wonder how the film will show this, whether like the book or occassionally shifting to the inside of the Mountain and seeing how the dwarves' are reacting to such turn of events.

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


dik-dik
Lorien


Jun 13 2013, 8:50am

Post #3 of 7 (230 views)
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This is related to my question - who does Thorin mean by... [book spoiler] [In reply to] Can't Post

... 'Oh my kinsfolk'? He's mentioned the Elves and the Men already - is this an acknowledgement of his own race, or is he including everyone in this cry? How do you other TORNers read this?

I'm not hijacking your thread to ask a question of my own, Dwarvenfury (great topic, BTW!). ;) It is just that I think that Thorin's indoor activities during the battle have partly something to do with a reevaluation of his stance toward Elves and Lake-men, and just perhaps also Gandalf and Bilbo, in a private guilty nook of his mind. Smile As I am inclined to believe he's using the term 'kinsmen' inclusively for everyone on the 'good' side, I believe his conscience went on quite a trip during those - how many, about eight?- hours between the beginning of the battle and his charge.

Apart from that, I assume he was picking better armour and weapons, and a better way to charge from the Mountain so that the most enemies get killed. I just cannot see someone like Thorin not monitoring the situation since Dain's arrival, prepared to immediately come to his cousin's aid against Elves and Men. Even before the battle he must have been heavily armed, with his people 'on standby'. I guess the goblins required another approach, and that battle strategy (timing, moment of surprise, best path to lead the attack along, covering their own back etc.) was the main thing that delayed Thorin's coming.
But I think there was a time of retrospection as well, that led to his famous battle-cry.


In Reply To
Do you think it is interesting that it's dain that joins forces with thranduil and bard rather than thorin,
as it would be more of a contrast with Thorin showing the animosity toward them throughout?


I don't think there was a way around this arangement - Thorin's people in the Mountain probably had no clear idea what was happening (limited field of vision?) until the battle started, and after that, the positions were already taken, so I don't imagine Thorin could have joined the allies even if he wanted to. (Didn't the enemy get between them, too?) But I think he would have, if given the chance. ;)


In Reply To
Does Bilbo wonder where his dwarven comrades are?


I imagine so.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Arandir
Gondor


Jun 13 2013, 9:02am

Post #4 of 7 (197 views)
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That's one of the best lines [In reply to] Can't Post

in the book - at least in my opinion. I've always seen that scene as a redeeming moment for Thorin and the unification between races against a common enemy.

The "kinsfolk" word always made me think of the dwarves specifically and those under Dain. Having already mentioned both Elves and Men it seems a direct reference to his own kin - what a beautiful line!Smile

'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' Review


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 13 2013, 10:15am

Post #5 of 7 (186 views)
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At first I suppose Thorin and his company... [In reply to] Can't Post

... would be preparing to defend the gate and the treasure against Bard and Thranduil. And searching for armour and weapons for themselves. Throin feeling furious and betrayed, as he is just before the battle starts in the book. But they'd have someone watching what was going on outside, and when the Orcs appear and the battle changes its focus, then they'd be working out how best to join in, and looking for their moment. And somewhere in that time Thorin's mindset must have changed completely. That's interesting, isn't it - I hadn't thought about that before and I wonder what provoked it. Maybe seeing elves and men fighting and dying alongside Dain's people?


dik-dik
Lorien


Jun 13 2013, 8:32pm

Post #6 of 7 (74 views)
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Quote appreciation seconded. Do you think this line will make it to movie 3? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm afraid that it won't, that it'll be replaced by something cooler and less old-fashioned (not used in a negative sense), or perhaps replaced by no words altogether; but I'd love for it to be included.

That's interesting, the choice of words and text linking in this quote always made me read 'my kinsfolk' as all-inclusive. Might be worth a poll... Wink

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Jun 14 2013, 8:29am

Post #7 of 7 (64 views)
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wall [In reply to] Can't Post

I would imagine it took them that long to get the wall down. It probably took them a while to get it up and this time there is no dragon to decimate it in ten seconds! Wink

Also, with as much armor as those dwarves wear on any given day, I cannot even begin to imagine how long it takes them to get battle dress ready!

Think of how long it would take Fili to stash all his knives! The guy must have at LEAST ten weapons on him on any given day!

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm

 
 

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