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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Direction of This Trilogy.


Jun 12 2013, 8:27pm

Post #1 of 9 (870 views)
The Direction of This Trilogy. Can't Post

I preface that it has been a long while since I've read the Hobbit
in its entirety. The posts here stimulate my understanding of the
Tolkien literature and make me wonder the disappointment many
might experience in seeing a Hobbit on screen which may not
identify as much with the literature they have come to enjoy. This
made me ponder the fate of this trilogy. Specifically, is the Hobbit
and any of its peculiar spirit already conceded in the film version?

A recent reading of the book would heighten my understanding, but
from my limited knowledge, perhaps the journey aspect of the book
does not yield quite the spirit of the story in its film translation. That is,
perhaps film will be able to capture the Hobbit, not in the journey to the
mountain itself, but once the party arrives at the mountain does the
element of the Hobbit start to manifest in a film's version. That is not
to say that there journey in the book does not contribute to the overall
spirit of the story; rather, there is only so much a visual portrayal of the
initial journey can convey to an audience. The impression I'm given is that
the journey aspect of the book is rather sequential. Events happen and
the company must triumph toward its next stage to their ultimate destination.

We'll have to see, but I think that prominence of the Elves in DoS and then
Bard and the men could make sense in that it is their unique and undeniable
claim to this story. This is Bilbo's story, with the Dwarves, and I think
we will see ultimately see this in the films. But I don't think it quite
happens until they arrive at the Mountain. At the mountain does Bilbo
have to muster what he can to deal with a situation with the Dragon
and the Dwarves. There will be character interaction between them and the
elicitation of the characters will have begun, especially. That is not to say
that the previous events do not inform the character contexts. What the films
are able to give us thus far is that Bilbo is a bit of a reluctant creature but finds
himself in relative rare company with an incredible proposition. But while the journey
happens, it is the company encountering various characters and cultures with those said
characters taking the stage. Why? Because Bilbo and the Dwarves will have the last say in
TaBa, where the peculiar story element of Tolkien's the Hobbit might shine through in a film
adaptation. This is my hope at least.

The changes and the presentation of the journey aspect of the story, while important, needs to
get us to the mountain and a particular place within the story and characters so that the events
which follow will be demonstratable to the spirit of the book. It's all about the journey, but somehow,
I think the understanding of the journey or the 'meaning' and 'spirit' of the book is ultimately shown
in this trilogy's third installment. I could just be well-wishing, but I think this produciton
has the book's 'interests,' at heart, at least i would hope so Sly. I think the production will
pull it off, i hope. Thoughts?

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jun 12 2013, 8:52pm

Post #2 of 9 (395 views)
Well, I do think that [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo spends much of the first part of the journey being "baggage". His meeting with Gollum and finding the Ring is the first step toward his becoming the hero of his own story. But it's when they reach the Secret Door that his "job" of burglar really kicks in. From that point on, it is Bilbo and the dragon (he's the only character who interacts with Smaug rather than just fighting him), Bilbo and Thorin and the Arkenstone, the Battle which I think he will take more part in for the movie than the book where he just tried to stay out of everyone's way, and then his journey home.

So in that sense, yes, most of Bilbo's centrality to the story does come once they reach the Mountain. It's how it is done that will determine whether it "feels" like the book - that is to say, evokes the same feeling in viewers as the book evoked in them as readers. I think there is plenty of opportunity for character moments and I hope they capitalize on it. The action's fun but the "heart" of the story is always in the characters and we need to see them interact for the right overall balance.


"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dûm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."


Jun 12 2013, 9:04pm

Post #3 of 9 (341 views)
Indeed. [In reply to] Can't Post

We shall see.

Oscillating conclusions exist I think because it can be difficult
to understand the story in installments. The place one needs to be
or reach is ultimately in the third installment, I think. It may ultimately
have been necessary for a three-part split, yet that can pose some real
head-scratchers when our story climaxes and conclusions are nearly all
in the last film, years away! Patience!!! awwww


Jun 12 2013, 9:07pm

Post #4 of 9 (348 views)
taba [In reply to] Can't Post

im worried for TABA as it will be wholly made up by the writers, with little to no tolkine input apart from the politics of the elves vs dwaves vs men

BOFA is basically down to pj and crew as nothing major is written of the actual fight,it doesnt sit well with me that someone, whoever it is, is making up lots of this story themselves, e.g half of TABA necromancer story cough cough.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Jun 12 2013, 10:09pm

Post #5 of 9 (315 views)
That's why Smaug *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

shouldn't die until film 3.

There's just not enough there to make a whole film, IMO, if Smaug bites it in film 2.

I see TABA structured in three acts like this:

Act 1 - Dol Guldor/White Council build-up followed by the destruction of Laketown

Act 2 - build-up to the BoFA and the attack on Dol Guldor (or whatever the climax of this subplot is)

Act 3 - BoFA and denouement

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jun 12 2013, 10:10pm)


Jun 12 2013, 10:13pm

Post #6 of 9 (284 views)
Nothing major? [In reply to] Can't Post

Really? I would have said that the Battle is very well described in the book. Tolkien captures the build-up to it, the stand-off between the armies and the dwarves in the mountain, Bilbo's actions, the moment when the 'good' armies are about to come to blows - then the arrival of the orcs and the moment when a squabble over treasure becomes something much more serious. then he sketches out the main phases of the action. Then he covers the aftermath in quite a lot of detail; then Bilbo's journey home and what he finds when he gets there.

They may change some things - I don't doubt they will - but to say 'it will be wholly made up' just isn't so. There may be some Dol Guldur story (though that should be over before the Battle if they follow Tolkien's timeline) but the Battle itself is very fully described in the book.


Jun 12 2013, 10:20pm

Post #7 of 9 (272 views)
dos end [In reply to] Can't Post

i agree but how exactly will DOS end? all the films end with a fight??

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Jun 12 2013, 11:07pm

Post #8 of 9 (230 views)
Gotta be [In reply to] Can't Post

Either laketown attack or Dol Guldor stand-off. one of the two is needed, there must be a climax.


Jun 13 2013, 3:01pm

Post #9 of 9 (120 views)
DOS ending [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that Smaug's destruction of the secret door will be amped up in some way. Also, there seems to be some fight between orcs and elves, so maybe that's near the end? I really don't know. All I know is that killing Smaug in DOS would be a mistake, IMO.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel


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