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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Now that I've seen Smaug, I don't see him talking, AT ALL.
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xxxyyy
Rohan

Jun 12 2013, 6:23pm

Post #1 of 30 (1172 views)
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Now that I've seen Smaug, I don't see him talking, AT ALL. Can't Post

Can you imagine lip sinc on that beast?
It would just go from pure awesomeness to "get up and leave the theater in emarassment"ness...
I just hope thay have found a clever way for him to talk...

http://energyfromthorium.com/


LordotRings93
Rohan


Jun 12 2013, 7:26pm

Post #2 of 30 (649 views)
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Now that you mention it... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would look kind of odd Sly Before I saw his face I never gave it a second thought. But if his voice is "good" enough, it shouldn't be a problem. I hope it's Cumberbatch's voice (think in one of the Star Trek trailers) but deepened a little more. I don't want it to be too deep and booming and menacing, because then it'll look like they're trying too hard and it will be comical.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 12 2013, 8:03pm

Post #3 of 30 (587 views)
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That's funny, I do.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Or at least, I don't yet, because he hasn't, but as his head turned I was waiting for him to say something. He's Smaug. Smaug talks - I've know that since I was 7 or 8 years old.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jun 12 2013, 8:29pm

Post #4 of 30 (518 views)
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I'm not saying he's not supposed to talk, I'm saying, having seen it, flash and bones... [In reply to] Can't Post

do you still imagine him moving his big mouth and talk in English? like a regular man?
The only way I could see this working is, as someone cleverer than me has already pointed out, is through the power of the Ring. Smaug should just talk in his language.
Having Bilbo the unusual power to undertand what he's saying and talk back could lead to a true confrontation, something Smaug does not expect.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell


Jun 12 2013, 8:37pm

Post #5 of 30 (504 views)
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mouth movements [In reply to] Can't Post

His mouth doesn't have to move a lot when he talks, that'd lot ridiculous, like some bit parrot or something. I'm expecting him to have quite a throaty voice.

Check out these crocodile vocalisations. There mouth stays completely shut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul4t6Fv8GWo&feature=endscreen

"Durin's Heir you may be, but even with one eye you should see clearer. If this is victory, then our hands are too small to hold it. We will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Beyond the shadow of the gate it waits for you still: Durin’s Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin’s Folk walk again in Moria.”

(This post was edited by Hamfast of Gamwich on Jun 12 2013, 8:38pm)


bborchar
Rohan


Jun 12 2013, 9:12pm

Post #6 of 30 (454 views)
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The mouth movements will be fine... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and I have absolutely no doubt that Benedict Cumberbatch will make Smaug awesome.



"And after every single person aboard your ship suffocates, I will walk over your cold corpses to recover my people."~John Harrison..?


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 12 2013, 9:15pm

Post #7 of 30 (432 views)
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Universal Translator [In reply to] Can't Post

Star Trek did it first. ;)

That's a clever idea to use the One Ring as a device of communication, especially as Smaug is said to be an agent or device of Sauron. The trouble is that Sauron should then become well aware that Bilbo has the ring. This was not so in The Lord of the Rings.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 12 2013, 9:15pm)


Kimtc
Rohan


Jun 12 2013, 9:39pm

Post #8 of 30 (397 views)
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As long as it's not like Mr. Ed [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're old enough to remember that. Which no one here is, of course.

For some reason I am picturing the cartoon version of the Grinch, not sure why. Maybe because Boris Karloff and C-Batch have the same smooth, reassuring yet unsettling tones.


JDRobinson
Registered User

Jun 12 2013, 9:43pm

Post #9 of 30 (407 views)
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He will... [In reply to] Can't Post

Really, if you look closely at the end of the trailer, watch Smaug's mouth and tongue. It looks like he is about to say something to Bilbo but PJ cut the trailer off.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jun 12 2013, 9:56pm

Post #10 of 30 (371 views)
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Not like a regular man... [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course, not, he's not a man, he's a dragon. But yes, I can picture the dragon we saw on screen talking in English. Why not? If you don't have a problem with it in the book, then I can't see why it should be a problem in the film. If you don't like it in the book, then the odds are that it doesn't matter how well they achieve the effect, you won't like it.

Seems to me it would be rather a cop-out to have him talk in some other language and make Bilbo understand him. If a dragon is basically a big lizard then it doesn't have the same vocal range as a cat or a dog. It doesn't have its own language. If it's acceptable for Smaug to speak at all, then why not English? And if he does speak some other laguage, how are Bilbo - and the audience - going to hear the English translation?

Dragons in folklore do speak. It's part of their magic.


Kassandros
Rohan


Jun 12 2013, 10:03pm

Post #11 of 30 (381 views)
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He will speak. [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug not talking would be just about the only thing that'd prevent me from seeing this movie entirely. But there's no way they'd do that. Smaug will speak.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


RosieLass
Valinor


Jun 12 2013, 10:51pm

Post #12 of 30 (349 views)
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I'm still not sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

...why people think Smaug needs to have lips.

Why can't his jaws move and a voice come out? Period.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


bborchar
Rohan


Jun 12 2013, 10:54pm

Post #13 of 30 (346 views)
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He's magic, after all... [In reply to] Can't Post

Would a magical creature require lips to talk? Lol.


"Fear me. I've killed hundreds of Time Lords."

"Fear me. I've killed all of them."


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 12 2013, 11:28pm

Post #14 of 30 (339 views)
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Wouldn't it be possible for a dragon to communicate by telepathy? [In reply to] Can't Post

Reptiles don't have the vocal chords to enable them to speak – at the most some of them hiss. In fact, I always imagined Smaug's voice including hissing, like a giant kettle boiling, and as being somewhat sinister and not necessarily very loud at all.

Having his mouth move while speaking might appear very odd because reptiles' mouths are not made to speak…


bborchar
Rohan


Jun 12 2013, 11:48pm

Post #15 of 30 (318 views)
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Check out "Neverwhere" [In reply to] Can't Post

Cumberbatch goes from breathy and creepy to enraged and nearly growling everything he says. It wouldn't surprise me to hear Smaug growl or rasp when he talks.


"Fear me. I've killed hundreds of Time Lords."

"Fear me. I've killed all of them."


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 12 2013, 11:55pm

Post #16 of 30 (300 views)
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Will try that – thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

He does have an amazing range to his voice – and his acting – and in an interview he sounded so enthusiastic about being involved in motion capture. I wonder how that will turn out?


In Reply To
Cumberbatch goes from breathy and creepy to enraged and nearly growling everything he says. It wouldn't surprise me to hear Smaug growl or rasp when he talks.



bborchar
Rohan


Jun 13 2013, 12:09am

Post #17 of 30 (295 views)
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Although I'd give anything... [In reply to] Can't Post

...for him to start talking in a fake french accent and saying "Le Bear Polar" XD (cabin pressure)

Yes, I'm a radio show addict, lol.


"Fear me. I've killed hundreds of Time Lords."

"Fear me. I've killed all of them."


WhiskFishercat
Bree


Jun 13 2013, 1:30am

Post #18 of 30 (274 views)
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War in the North had talking dragons [In reply to] Can't Post

While not the best lip sync, I think it is still cool and will work in the movie. I too imagine Benedict's voice from Star Trek being a lot like Smaug's.

See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1B6Nc9UtS8


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 13 2013, 2:37am

Post #19 of 30 (252 views)
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No Lips [In reply to] Can't Post

Try saying "Benedict Cumberbatch" without lips.


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 13 2013, 3:33am

Post #20 of 30 (232 views)
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Lips [In reply to] Can't Post

Strictly speaking ... do dragons (not unlike chickens) in this context have lips?


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 13 2013, 3:38am

Post #21 of 30 (236 views)
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On this we agree entirely, you and I [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Or at least, I don't yet, because he hasn't, but as his head turned I was waiting for him to say something. He's Smaug. Smaug talks - I've know that since I was 7 or 8 years old.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 13 2013, 3:40am

Post #22 of 30 (242 views)
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That would ruin an important aspect of Dragons in the legendarium. Smaug is not unique in talking, and dragon talk is not hard to understand [In reply to] Can't Post

Dragon's are indeed famed in this period and realm for their brilliant and mesmerizing conversational skills. It would not do to have Bilbo be the rare person who can interact with one. They might do it that way, but it would be all wrong from a story perspective.

In Reply To
do you still imagine him moving his big mouth and talk in English? like a regular man?
The only way I could see this working is, as someone cleverer than me has already pointed out, is through the power of the Ring. Smaug should just talk in his language.
Having Bilbo the unusual power to undertand what he's saying and talk back could lead to a true confrontation, something Smaug does not expect.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 13 2013, 3:46am

Post #23 of 30 (231 views)
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Reptiles also do not breathe fire or have lanterlight eyes. Smaug is no reptile. [In reply to] Can't Post

He is decidedly warmblooded, for one thing. He has avian or bat (thus mamallian) style wings, for another (flying reptiles extend their ribcages, but do not actually have wings they can beat independantly). Above all he is a magical creature, which negates everything regarding normal animals.

That said, if he WERE a more ordinary beast, he would likely be more closely related to the warmbloodied, avain kin Saurians than to actual lizards. And avains are known to be able to vocalize, some even to the point of repeating human speech, and all this with beaks much more hard to manuver than Smaug's mouth.

In Reply To
Reptiles don't have the vocal chords to enable them to speak – at the most some of them hiss. In fact, I always imagined Smaug's voice including hissing, like a giant kettle boiling, and as being somewhat sinister and not necessarily very loud at all.

Having his mouth move while speaking might appear very odd because reptiles' mouths are not made to speak…


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Jun 13 2013, 3:48am)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Jun 13 2013, 3:56am

Post #24 of 30 (223 views)
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Haha [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know why, but I had this funny thought when I was watching the trailer of Smaug having a lisp. I think it's the shape of his mouth that kinda looks like an underbite and when I imagined him talking, that's what I heard....though I certainly don't think that will be the case! Haha


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 13 2013, 4:35am

Post #25 of 30 (212 views)
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Dragons are their own species [In reply to] Can't Post

Neither reptile or bird, a dragon, calling a reptile a lizard or a wyrn (worm) could be construed as an isult ...


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

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