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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2013, 6:14pm
Post #51 of 293
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The costume is disappointing when compared to those in LotR
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Arwen's action costumes (Chase, Battle) were by far superior... Oh well. In some shots her costume has looked pretty nice, and it moves prettily with her movements. Let's see how it looks on the silver screen.
But every word you say today Gets twisted 'round some other way And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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Estel78
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2013, 6:32pm
Post #53 of 293
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And that desaturated picture above already looks much better.
(This post was edited by Estel78 on Jun 5 2013, 6:32pm)
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Hun200kmh
The Shire
Jun 5 2013, 6:54pm
Post #54 of 293
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Loving the older man ... errr .... elf
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This is becoming less and less like Tolkien. I do think Peter Jackson is a genius and I love all his work but LOTR and the Hobbit is what it is because it teaches us that you don't have to marry or fall in love be successful or to be happy and life shouldn't be about hunting for that one special person all your life and adding a female elf who isn't in the book is ok but making her fall in love? Who would she fall in love with? Bilbo? One of the dwarves? Legolas? I don't think she should because that would just change the whole story. Totally speculative, but if it isn't Legolas than it can only be Thranduil. Or Bard. But I'm 99,99% sure it is Thranduil.
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cats16
Half-elven
Jun 5 2013, 7:04pm
Post #55 of 293
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I'm not making assumptions until the film is released.
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It's not set in stone, no matter what Lilly says. She isn't the one editing the film, so there's no way of knowing what actually makes it into the final cut of the film (or even of the EE). She has many motivations for the character, as do many of the dwarves, but there is no way of knowing if we're actually shown some of them. It is interesting that they sound to be making her feelings more implicit, which is very refreshing. Otherwise, I'll wait until December to judge the character.
(This post was edited by cats16 on Jun 5 2013, 7:05pm)
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 5 2013, 7:11pm
Post #56 of 293
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The Movement Coach had a lot of Fun
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since many of our..."Stunties" are female! YEAH! Bomby's ALL for That!
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Bumblingidiot
Rohan
Jun 5 2013, 7:26pm
Post #57 of 293
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They did not have to make a blockbuster - they could have made a cheaper, less profitable film. They chose not to, and in doing so, they have drifted quite far from the spirit and story of the book they are adapting. There are plenty of examples of films - some even big budget, - where the director and producers have refused to add unnecessary material just to appeal to a particular demographic. I watched Sense and Sensibility on TV the other day - quite good, even though Austen is not my thing - good cast and direction and no added action scenes and, I think, fairly faithful to the book. It got a 98% critics rating and 88% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes. They probably lost most of the the Transformers crowd, but so what?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 5 2013, 7:28pm
Post #58 of 293
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I guess we can't take her previous statement about Tauriel's age at face value.
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There is no way that Tauriel is only 600 years old if she and Legolas were children together. Tolkien never reveals Legolas' age, but we know that he is far older than the other members of the Fellowship and views them (even Gimli) almost as children. Books on the making of the LotR films assign him TA 87 as his year of birth. I wish that Lilly's stance as an archer was better. If she was holding her bow correctly then her arms would be straigher, but perhaps she is in motion and that is not her final position. At least Lilly acknowledges that Tauriel does break some of the normal Elven conventions.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 5 2013, 7:28pm
Post #59 of 293
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Of course LotR was purely done for art and God.
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sarcasm off
“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Jun 5 2013, 7:35pm
Post #60 of 293
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That's her "DayWear"... Bomby is convinced she WILL have Costume Changes!
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Elenorflower
Gondor
Jun 5 2013, 7:45pm
Post #61 of 293
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but thats the least of my worries. Like all the rest of it. Legolas romance, *facepalm*
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Elwen
Lorien
Jun 5 2013, 7:57pm
Post #62 of 293
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If I were to tell you all that I'm writing a fan-fic....
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and in my very best breathless teenager voice I said "It's about this really cool non-canon character, and she has red hair, which is a rare color for elves, and she's "really high up in the army" (Lilly's words) and she's just lethal with her bow, in fact so lethal she's as good as Legolas, even though she's like 1300 years younger than him, but despite that they've been friends all their lives, and she's going to have a romance story, but don't worry it's not Legolas..." The amount of eye-rolling and any amount of kindly but exhausted "You're treading dangerously close to Mary Sue territory" warning that would ensue would be well justified. I'm just sayin'
Before kids, exercising with LOTR meant listening to the soundtrack while I ran. After kids, exercising with LOTR means having an all out dance party with the little ones to the "Break the Dam Release the River" disco mix form the Lego game.
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DanielLB
Immortal
Jun 5 2013, 7:57pm
Post #63 of 293
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If the *hint* is more than just a *hint*, then the only thing this confirms for me is that...
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Tauriel will die. If Legolas and Tauriel are/become lovers, and she survives the BO5A (and/or the attack on Dol Guldur), why on earth would Legolas leave with the Fellowship? It's more tragic if Legolas' lover dies.
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Elenorflower
Gondor
Jun 5 2013, 7:59pm
Post #64 of 293
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Marketability does not have to mean
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crap made up specifically for the lowest common denominator. The films have to primarily tell the story of the Hobbit, or it shouldnt be called the Hobbit, it should be called 'Peter Jacksons The Hobbit' in which case it doesnt matter if Thorin survives or Legolas marries Kili, but as the producers and Writers have CONTINUALLY stated their RESPECT for the source material, and in AUJ we got not a lot of respect for the source material, I think we should be allowed to moan about it in peace thanks very much.
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cats16
Half-elven
Jun 5 2013, 8:06pm
Post #65 of 293
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Yet I feel it's not that simple, either.
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by saying that they didn't need to make a blockbuster. Films are expensive, especially at the scale of this franchise. An argument could be made that because there was a great deal of money put into these films, they are actually trying to stay as close to the spirit and story of the book as possible. Most of us here have seen the vlogs, so can we deny that there has been an incredible amount of work and detail put into the craftsmanship here? Richard Taylor and his crew put in many hours towards the intricacies of each character's personality and a race's culture. I'm not disagreeing with you here, I'm just questioning the logic used to explain the point being made. It's hard to not be biased when considering whether or not an adaptation fits the spirit of the novel. It's all subjective. We're all reading the same book, but the way we engage with the text is determined by many social factors. There's not universal interpretation. So some people may feel that PJ has perfectly kept the spirit of the novel. And others don't feel that way. I don't feel that either group is wrong. It seems like this is turning into a discussion on high vs. low art. And I think I'll stop here.
(This post was edited by cats16 on Jun 5 2013, 8:06pm)
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cats16
Half-elven
Jun 5 2013, 8:10pm
Post #66 of 293
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The threw me off, as I suddenly pictured PJ devilishly sitting in his director's chair, yelling at Lilly to act out Tauriel's death once more. With a smile on his face.... Ah, gave me a good chuckle!
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 5 2013, 8:14pm
Post #67 of 293
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George Martin received offers from hollywood to turn his series into movies, by choosing one or two main characters, and forget the rest, you know make it MORE MARKETABALE! Ah... that is is why he went to HBO where they have a nude quota and mess around with characters (of course if you have a gay character he has to be a nice clishée the not so HBO-audience can handle) and storylines (not that this is a bad thing after the mess he wrote after volume 3)... :D But I guess they at least let him write some episodes ;)
“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jun 5 2013, 8:15pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Jun 5 2013, 8:17pm
Post #68 of 293
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A lot of the stuff that made those movies so expensive is what is absolutely necessary to make Middle-earth believable. They always needed to be "blockbusters" in order to make a profit. The legend iof LotR being a B-movie production is, well, a legend. But of course this has nothing to do with Tauriel, so sorry for OT.
“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Jun 5 2013, 8:18pm)
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Elwen
Lorien
Jun 5 2013, 8:31pm
Post #69 of 293
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Editing is key, and remember this isn't the first time PJ has toyed with a Legolas romance....
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I really truly think that he had visions of a Legolas-Arwen-Aragorn triangle originally, that got edited out later. My evidence is is thin, but here it is: A not-just-friends farewell from Rivendell (Seen in the second row of pics http://www.freewebs.com/lord_ofthe_rings/LostScenes.html ) From an old MTV interview with the hobbits, Liv and Orlando: Orlando: And I play an elf, Legolas, and I'm one of the nine of the fellowship, representing the elves, and I offer my bow to Frodo, to protect him with that, kind of my weapon of choice, my signature ... Sean: He's wicked with the bow. Liv: I'm Arwen, the elven princess ... Orlando: ... and I have a crush on Arwen, the elven princess. And the that exchange when Legolas hands Aragorn the evenstar at Helm's Deep. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, as an actor (granted not a professional) I see another layer there, something else going on. My interpretation given the other hints at a Legolas/Arwen connection is that Legolas is relinquishing his claim to Aragorn. Maybe it's all in my head...but the point is, it could have easily happened and landed on the cutting floor. Here's hoping it happens again.
Before kids, exercising with LOTR meant listening to the soundtrack while I ran. After kids, exercising with LOTR means having an all out dance party with the little ones to the "Break the Dam Release the River" disco mix form the Lego game.
(This post was edited by Elwen on Jun 5 2013, 8:32pm)
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Tinkerbell
Lorien
Jun 5 2013, 8:35pm
Post #70 of 293
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The article mentions how purists might abhor this non-canonical character. I don't think this is merely a 'purist' issue. It's simply a story-telling issue, and its deviation from the canon exacerbates any of its failings. A potential issue with deviation from the literature is that you surrender all the work of the author in the story's balance and tone and the connections that sustain the immediate plot. Upset this balance and you now have to compensate or rework significant points of the canon, through exacerbation or some other artifice; therefore, it is possible that the 'purist' way is the stronger in terms of story telling in that it rests on a supported basis. A potential issue with walking through the doors of plots Tauriel and Dol Guldur is that, more than likely, once entered, you'd have no choice but to follow it to some conclusion. Once arrived at conclusion, you could find that you are so removed from the main path, to get back is near impossible with out arbitrary quick fixes that might surrender a story's creditability. open the doors and have a look, but you don't have to enter and see where it leads lol. does this make sense? Maybe the film character Tauriel will be a nice surprise, yet i feel like i know her whole story before I know the character or her situation. And the whole writing off the critics as they're supposed 'purist' has me concerned a bit for the upcoming films. It's almost akin to some thinking that the film rate was the real reason for some of the critics' tepid, at best, receptions. With these easy dismissals, is the production interested the film, or just the easy sell? somewhat disheartening, i know. Thoughts?
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Elwen
Lorien
Jun 5 2013, 8:43pm
Post #71 of 293
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True, and there's no such thing as bad publicity...
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but couldn't promoting her backfire if people disliked her enough? Maybe not though. I hate the whole idea, but I'll probably still shell out the $$ to see the film, which is really all they care about in the long run.
Before kids, exercising with LOTR meant listening to the soundtrack while I ran. After kids, exercising with LOTR means having an all out dance party with the little ones to the "Break the Dam Release the River" disco mix form the Lego game.
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2013, 8:48pm
Post #72 of 293
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Didn't PJ already confirm Legolas and Tauriel wouldn't be lovers?
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I though Evangeline was purposefully misleading with her hints. The real target is Kíli.
But every word you say today Gets twisted 'round some other way And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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Tinkerbell
Lorien
Jun 5 2013, 8:50pm
Post #73 of 293
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I was careful in typing Sometimes, I wonder if the 'is' should be the objective of some films rather than the 'as.' You know what I mean? I don't need some ridiculous demonstration or novel, quixotic notion if it is concerned with the 'as' rather than 'is.' I could take a nap instead. Anyone agree?
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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea
Jun 5 2013, 8:50pm
Post #74 of 293
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I think we've already seen two of her costumes, Bomby
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This and another one with different bodice and texture - it looked nicer and more Elvish. If she joins Bo5A, she'll probably wear an armor.
But every word you say today Gets twisted 'round some other way And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
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lurtz2010
Rohan
Jun 5 2013, 8:51pm
Post #75 of 293
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people are being silly about this
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Acting like it will ruin everything. It's not like the whole movie will be about Tauriel's story.
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