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Movie of the Simirillian?
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Jay236
The Shire


Jun 5 2013, 3:26pm

Post #1 of 37 (693 views)
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Movie of the Simirillian? Can't Post

Do you think the Simirillian would make a good movie and should PJ direct it?

If more people valued food, cheer and song above hoarded gold, the world would indeed be a merrier place.


dik-dik
Lorien


Jun 5 2013, 3:47pm

Post #2 of 37 (372 views)
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'Yes' twice. :] [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm aware this is a purely hypothetical question, but having seen TH, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that a series of Silmarillion movies (IMO it's absolutely impossible to cram everything into a single movie, even if it were just the Quenta) would probably work better for me than the 'adultisation' of a children's book. The Silm. has so much drama and angst on its own that altering the plotline for the sake of inserting these would become pointless.
I've grown used to distortion of characters, so my only big problem would be the credibility of the CGI, not only on landscapes and monsters but mostly on the Ainur and Elves. I just can imagine no more than a handful of human actresses/actors beautiful enough to do them justice, so the only way I can see a number of these characters brought on screen would be real people altered by CGI, or purely CGI creations (Annatar from the RotK extra DVDs was *perfect* IMO). But I'm afraid the price for visual beauty would be unemotional coldness of these characters, and lack of identification for the audience.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


FrogmortonJustice65
Rivendell


Jun 5 2013, 5:02pm

Post #3 of 37 (353 views)
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No... [In reply to] Can't Post

the Silmarillion doesn't lend itself to a movie adaptation particularly well. I don't think any Silmarillion film could be very commercially successful at all. Casual moviegoers will find it too unrelated to LOTR and it lacks Hobbits, the Ring, etc. If it was well done, hardcore Tolkien readers such as ourselves would no doubt enjoy it, but I can't see much of a market for it beyond us. Given that, I doubt it will ever happen; and maybe that's a good thing. We don't need a movie adaptation for every single thing Tolkien wrote.

 photo cbccab4e-f61e-4be5-aaa1-20e302430c7c.jpg


Angharad73
Rohan


Jun 5 2013, 5:39pm

Post #4 of 37 (336 views)
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Maybe... [In reply to] Can't Post

Some parts of the Sil might translate ok into a movie (or several), but not the whole book. There are many, many story lines in the Sil, so if it were possible to take some of these and flesh them out (a lot), they might make good movie material.

Personally, I'd like to see the whole story of Feanor and his sons turned into movies (a trilogy, maybe?), but that's not going to happen...


Elizabeth
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 6:19pm

Post #5 of 37 (336 views)
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It's often been discussed here. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's really a collection of individual tales, some of which could make good movies, but as a whole it is not suitable. Even the individual stories are more mythic in nature, lacking Hobbits and other ingredients of TH and LotR that make them popular and accessible.

In any case, the film rights are not available and unlikely to be for a long time to come.








Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 5 2013, 6:19pm

Post #6 of 37 (353 views)
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A tv series like GoT might work. But keep PJ away from it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Silmarillion isn't the kind of story for PJ, and PJ isn't the kind of director for Silmarillion. Besides, I'm really eager to see other people's take on Middle-Earth.

Also, you cannot make a movie of Silmarillion. Perhaps you could make a movie of some of the stories in Silmarillion. Or a movie trilogy based on Lay of Lúthien, the Children of Húrin and the Fall of Gondolin aka the Big Three stories. Or tv series. In either case you'd need to consider carefully which parts of the mythology you want to tell. The main characters and even the genre change significantly once the story leaves Valinor and arrives into Beleriand.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied

(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Jun 5 2013, 6:21pm)


imin
Valinor


Jun 5 2013, 6:29pm

Post #7 of 37 (325 views)
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Pretty much exactly this. // [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Silmarillion isn't the kind of story for PJ, and PJ isn't the kind of director for Silmarillion. Besides, I'm really eager to see other people's take on Middle-Earth.

Also, you cannot make a movie of Silmarillion. Perhaps you could make a movie of some of the stories in Silmarillion. Or a movie trilogy based on Lay of Lúthien, the Children of Húrin and the Fall of Gondolin aka the Big Three stories. Or tv series. In either case you'd need to consider carefully which parts of the mythology you want to tell. The main characters and even the genre change significantly once the story leaves Valinor and arrives into Beleriand.


And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Elwen
Lorien


Jun 5 2013, 7:41pm

Post #8 of 37 (325 views)
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An excellent series of movie but please.... [In reply to] Can't Post

no PJ.

For one thing, The Sil is very much a story about Elves and Men, and I've liked his interpretation of Hobbits much better than his elves.

I do think it's too long for one movie, perhaps a very high budget miniseries?

Before kids, exercising with LOTR meant listening to the soundtrack while I ran.

After kids, exercising with LOTR means having an all out dance party with the little ones to the "Break the Dam Release the River" disco mix form the Lego game.


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 5 2013, 10:38pm

Post #9 of 37 (321 views)
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Not by PJ and probably No in general [In reply to] Can't Post

For the reasons Faenorial and Frogmorton have already stated-you'd have to change the book into something the complete opposite of what it is to make a commerical film, compress or rewrite the timespan, tone and archaic, reliougous imagery of the book to lure in the fans of the previous films-Is a 10,000 year long Civil War/Creation myth between immortals (featuring incest, betrayal, murder, greed and religion prominently) likely to have the same pull as a story about 'human level' hobbits such as Bilbo and Frodo?, in anycase the huge number of characters, the complex interlocking narrative and the virtual ignorance of its links to LOTR (virtually all the stuff that links the sil to lotr and the hobbit has been missed out so far) would make it pretty hard to set up, let alone explain or make into Blockbuster cinema IMO.

Even ignoring these issues, the film would likely be too expensive, too long in development and over reliant on CGI to gain financing, or approval from the Tolkein estate, there is admittedly the remote possibility of an agreement with PJ...but then would a PJ without creative freedom really be a good thing? Would the 'birth' of PJ's Middle Earth feel like Tolkeins or work on screen? For both I'd say no.
.
And to be honest the thought of PJ tampering with Tolkien's lifework (Written and conceived in a manner totally oppsite to PJ's spin on things, right from the start, Hugely personal to Tolkien) isn't one I'm too keen on-Tolkien himself couldn't bring the sil to a final conclusion-entrusting it to his son (whatever your views on Christopher, you can't deny he is his father's biggest fan) to finish the work, whilst PJ has proven he a talented filmaker (tolkien fan second), for 60 years labour by two different writers, I'd want something more from a adaptation of The Sil-the book is probably unfilmable anyway so I'd want someone else to have a crack at it, with a less commerical approach:

My thoughts can be summed up by the follwing

http://philadelphiareviewofbooks.com/...pan-onto-the-screen/


Quote

You mentioned the rights issues with adapting The Silmarillion as a series of films. If the Tolkien estate were amenable to such an endeavor, do you think its numerous stories would translate well to film? Are there any stories from The Silmarillion that you’d personally like to see adapted?

I think adapting any portion of The Silmarillion would be substantially more complicated–and controversial–than adapting The Hobbit was. The Biblical tone of much of the work is likely untranslatable to film, as is the sense of narrative remove and the vast swaths of time involved. I think an adaptation of The Silmarillion that is true to the superlative creative core of that specific text, while also in keeping with Tolkien’s broader vision of Middle Earth, would probably look something like Terrence Malick’s The Tree of Life (2011)–in other words, it would require experimental shooting and narrative techniques and would be panned by most of those inclined to enjoy Hollywood’s present, big-budget take on the epic. So much of what seems dry and factual on the page would need to be presented as ethereal and impressionistic on the silver screen, and I don’t think Tolkien fans would have the patience for it.

To the extent the stories of The Silmarillion are, in situ, a mythological haze that hangs invisibly over Middle Earth–reified in song and statue, yes, but never touched, in their essence, except in the waking and sleeping visions of individual dwarves, elves, goblins, orcs, wizards, and men–you wouldn’t want to falsely crystallize them into what could easily look like a Middle Earth documentary. Shall we tell the story of the Founding of the World as though it were the Battle of the Pelennor Fields? Reimagine Valinor using a simply more sumptuous version of the existing Rivendell set? Can we speak of the beings in The Silmarillion, let alone portray them in film, as just grander versions of the Heroes of the Fellowship? No; if you’re going to cast a film almost entirely with gods, godlike creatures, and legendary personae, you have to employ a visual style that establishes these entities and the events they produce and move through as being somehow beyond our immediate understanding. Jackson would likely not be the appropriate director for such a work, as too many expectations incongruous with such an adaptation already attach, even now, to his projects. We would need, instead, a director, and a screenwriter, with whom our expectations would run much closer to what we’d call an “art house film.”

So I guess I’d say that, failing those prerequisites being met, I don’t think I’d want to see The Silmarillion adapted at all. And so I can’t predict which stories from the book I’d most want to see adapted, as the style of adaptation I’d consider most appropriate would constitute an artistic vision well beyond (at least in cinematic terms) my present understanding or my ability to anticipate.



Essentially I love the book, and remain to be convinced that a film would be a good idea from a cinematic or fan point of view, but I'm not entirely opposed given the right man or woman for the job comes along (Not PJ *Yes to Hayao Myazaski, Terrence Malick*) and the film dose something a little more risky than just be a blockbuster.

Long and Rambling as so many of my posts are I know, but I always ind this topic interesting...

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’

Perhaps the most fascinating Individual in Middle Earth



Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Jun 5 2013, 10:51pm

Post #10 of 37 (307 views)
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I've often said this [In reply to] Can't Post

Beren and Luthien would make a great opera! Incorporated with various other material from the Silmarillion. It has all the dramatic operatic themes, love, fighting, a scary enemy, even scarier moments, the part about the Elves been eaten by Werewolves in Sauron's dungeons would be good, and Tolkien liked opera!


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 2:25am

Post #11 of 37 (286 views)
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Ramblings like this are good to read! [In reply to] Can't Post

Loved the mention of Hayao Miyazaki. It'd probably be too expensive to make a film or tv series of Silmarillion when in the end it'd probably be for relatively narrow audiences. But if we drop the live acting aspect and go for animation, everything becomes possible, right? Also the more artistic take on things.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 2:27am

Post #12 of 37 (285 views)
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And music could express what words cannot... [In reply to] Can't Post

It could be an interesting medium with potential to translate the special mythical, biblical nature of Silm much better than any movie.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


noWizardme
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 11:43am

Post #13 of 37 (257 views)
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Yes, I think the rise of high-production-value TV such as Game of Thrones, makes a lot of complex fiction filmable,// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 1:05pm

Post #14 of 37 (256 views)
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I second GoT format [In reply to] Can't Post

There are too many characters, time spans and events for movies to do them justice but HBO/AMC production would be perfect.


CuriousG
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 2:17pm

Post #15 of 37 (248 views)
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Handling time [In reply to] Can't Post

Game of Thrones is pretty contiguous, isn't it? One year's events follows another's. In The Silmarillion, there are centuries that pass at some times, decades pass at others. How would that be adapted for a general audience? I suppose I mean: would they accept a subtitle saying: "Centuries passed..." or would they expect events to seem to appear on a condensed timeline?

I'd vote for serializing it rather than trying to fit it into a movie or 3 movies. It could last a season or two.

PJ as director? I dunno. I'm not sure he'd do it well, but other directors would do a lot worse. Who would do better?


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 3:07pm

Post #16 of 37 (245 views)
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possible directors [In reply to] Can't Post

 
michael bey
baz luhrman
roland emmerich / dean devlin
paul verhoeven

cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 10:41pm

Post #17 of 37 (234 views)
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But Sil also has immortal characters who witness almost all events [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron (in sexy human form no less), Galadriel, Elrond are just a few who could hold the series together. Of course, there would be a lot of "fill in the blanks" changes because Sil is very dry and very century hopping.

As for a director, if GoT director does a bang on job with Thor 2 he would be a great Dream Director pic for this.


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Jun 7 2013, 12:00pm

Post #18 of 37 (216 views)
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I think I agree mostly with everyone else. [In reply to] Can't Post

One thing I'd love to see done is The Children of Húrin. To me it's always been such a beautiful book. It's something darker that would appeal to an older audience. It's definitely not something I'd want PJ to direct.

I'm afraid that if the Silmarillion were to be adapted into a TV series, it would go the way of a Game of Thrones. Besides, you'd need a big budget.

"Eala Earendel engla beorhtast
ofer middangeard monnum sended."

"You think you world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you. Enjoy these final moments of peace, for I have returned to have my vengeance. So, shall we begin? " - John Harrison/Khan/Sherlock/Smaug (Star Trek: Into Darkness)


BoromirOfWinterfell
Rohan


Jun 7 2013, 12:02pm

Post #19 of 37 (216 views)
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Sauron in sexy human form? [In reply to] Can't Post

So I wasn't the only one who saw it that way...Blush

"Eala Earendel engla beorhtast
ofer middangeard monnum sended."

"You think you world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you. Enjoy these final moments of peace, for I have returned to have my vengeance. So, shall we begin? " - John Harrison/Khan/Sherlock/Smaug (Star Trek: Into Darkness)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 7 2013, 3:44pm

Post #20 of 37 (202 views)
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Century hopping [In reply to] Can't Post

There wouldn't be much sense trying to cover such time expands. It'd become reaaaally artsy, and make the audience's head sore. As I said earlier, choose your story and concentrate on it. There's no need to try to include everything. Tolkien himself was mostly interested in a few big stories and in certain characters, and the other stuff was sort of stuffing around it.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Off to an adventure in Republika e Shqipërisë. Will be back 16.6.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 7 2013, 3:45pm

Post #21 of 37 (221 views)
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The Children of Húrin <3 <3 <3 [In reply to] Can't Post

That and the Lay of Lúthien would be the best candidates for independent adaptations.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Off to an adventure in Republika e Shqipërisë. Will be back 16.6.


CuriousG
Valinor


Jun 7 2013, 4:21pm

Post #22 of 37 (189 views)
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One advantage to a TV series (or a dozen movies) [In reply to] Can't Post

Would be the fleshing out of certain stories and events and adding dialogue to events that are described in a few sentences to really get a good scene for them. Some choices would be:

1. The crossing of the Helcaraxe
2. Haleth and her people Passing through Nan Dungortheb
3. All big battles, especially the Valar fighting Morgoth

Some scenes that are well-described would be epic to see in film:
1. Luthien and Huan fighting Sauron at Minas Tirith
2. The death of the Two Trees
3. Fingolfin fighting Morgoth


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 7 2013, 4:25pm

Post #23 of 37 (202 views)
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Embarrassing confession [In reply to] Can't Post

I always shipped him and Galadriel. I think her husband was really boring and didn`t she leave him in ME when she left for Valionor? Tells you all you need to know about that dull marriage. No wodner she flirted with Gimli while hubby was fuming. Laugh

I also ship Sauron (werewolf) and Thuringwethil (vampire). I think they were a couple in Tol-in-Gaurhoth. It isn`t explicitely said but one can feel it.Blush


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 7 2013, 4:27pm

Post #24 of 37 (204 views)
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Definitely Lay of Luthien [In reply to] Can't Post

All characters in CoH are so unlikable especially Turin Turambar who is constantly emo and annoying. OTOH, beren and Luthien romance is epic and Luthien is such an alluring heroine, bets one in Tolkienverse, IMO.


imin
Valinor


Jun 7 2013, 4:36pm

Post #25 of 37 (206 views)
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What's poor Beleg done wrong? :P // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.

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