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dormouse
Half-elven

May 29 2013, 7:00am
Post #101 of 121
(351 views)
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...and no need to be sorry! I just hadn't heard any negative comment about her before.
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Starling
Half-elven

May 29 2013, 8:03am
Post #102 of 121
(354 views)
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In the dim reaches of my memory
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there is a thought that the Morwen character was pregnant, and that when she clutches onto Eowyn in the caves at Helms Deep she is actually having a contraction, and Eowyn is probably going to have to be midwife along with everything else. In the process of editing the pregnancy storyline disappeared, but parts that were filmed remain, so it's all a bit messy really. Am I right or did I dream this? And what doesn't help me is the actress Robbyn Malcolm - she very well known in NZ and that drags me out of the story every time.
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Semper Fi
Rohan
May 29 2013, 10:43am
Post #103 of 121
(340 views)
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Childbirth? REALLY? No thanks!
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Those scenes are always awful, drag forever, and everyone is extremly annoying because they are yelling "Push!" "I see the head!",etc. I don`t know why they even toyed with having such a scene but I`m glad that reason prevailed and they deleted it.
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elaen32
Gondor

May 29 2013, 2:15pm
Post #104 of 121
(319 views)
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Sorry Starling, but you didn't dream it!
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Unless we had the same dream I also remember this- I think it must be on one of the commentaries- not one of the writing ones-possibly the cast- I cannot remember. They wanted to create even more tension between the women and children in the caves and the battle and so had Morwen go into labour and a terrified Eowyn (Witch King? No worries. Woman in labour- scaaary!) having to deal with it. I'm soooo glad that they dispensed with the idea, except for the little bit we see in the EE!
"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"
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dik-dik
Lorien

May 29 2013, 3:58pm
Post #106 of 121
(324 views)
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'character arc' - that phrase makes me uneasy.
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I do think that Tauriel will be at the Battle of the Five Armies. There is where we are likely to see the culmination of her character-arc. If Tauriel is important enough to have her own arc, then her role won't be as backgroundish as that of the other women. That makes me worried.
"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal

May 29 2013, 4:19pm
Post #107 of 121
(315 views)
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I don't think that Peter Jackson can help himself...
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If Tauriel is important enough to have her own arc, then her role won't be as backgroundish as that of the other women. That makes me worried. I think of Tauriel in terms of the characters Ben Hayes and Jimmy from Jackson's King Kong, the first mate on the Venture and the boy who looked up to him as a mentor.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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DwellerInDale
Rohan

May 29 2013, 4:31pm
Post #108 of 121
(320 views)
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If you believe she won't be at Dol Guldur, then you'll have to explain scenes like the attached photo, which looks a lot like DG from the grey stone steps and columns.
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
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Tauriel_DolGuldur.jpg
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal

May 29 2013, 4:42pm
Post #109 of 121
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To my eye, those could just as easily be part of the ruins of Dale.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea

May 29 2013, 7:32pm
Post #110 of 121
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but in the book they guarded the prisoners in the cells and weren't trying to interrogating orcs for Thranduil, or chasing and killing spiders, or any of the other made up fan fiction that Lilly will surely be doing in the films. It would be one thing for her to be the captain of the guard get drunk pass out and get her keys taken by Bilbo, I could live with that. But writing her in to be doing a bunch of made up nonsense that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit with what Tolkien wrote is just lame and unnecessary. THAT is where the contradiction is, the extent and involvement of her role in the tale. which should be if anything a small one.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal

May 29 2013, 9:08pm
Post #111 of 121
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but in the book they guarded the prisoners in the cells and weren't trying to interrogating orcs for Thranduil, or chasing and killing spiders, or any of the other made up fan fiction that Lilly will surely be doing in the films. It would be one thing for her to be the captain of the guard get drunk pass out and get her keys taken by Bilbo, I could live with that. But writing her in to be doing a bunch of made up nonsense that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit with what Tolkien wrote is just lame and unnecessary. THAT is where the contradiction is, the extent and involvement of her role in the tale. which should be if anything a small one. I'm afraid that ship has sailed.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea

May 29 2013, 10:45pm
Post #112 of 121
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but doesn't mean that it doesn't suck. I really couldn't care less about Lilly or the made up character of Tauriel. I think she is going to be, as Lilly herself put it, "a black mark", in the world of Tolkien. The whole concept of the character from what we have heard so far screams foul and goes against the source material itself. Even the supposed names meaning screams a bunch of crap. "Daughter of Mirkwood"... I thought it was Greenwood to the elves. and since Jackson felt the need to have it turning bad IN the Hobbit timeline. I'm sure the name didn't just change overnight. Some people are just optimistic about her, some are being realistic about her and her involvement in something she doesn't belong in. I guess it makes the changes easier to take for some people to see everything in a positive light. But for me once Jackson started making up characters and changing the plot of the whole story around. All the while trying to justify them, with answers that are in themselves vague and IMO side stepping the questions, he lost any respect I had for him from making LOTR. Sure there were character changes in LOTR BUT The character changes in those films were only minor(in comparison)and any made up characters were none with any real substantial plot deviations, which Tauriel surely creates since she is a totally made up, non Tolkien character. doing things that NEVER HAPPENED in the story. I do not consider the captain of the guard an actual developed character in the book since he was vague and had maybe a couple lines and was gone after a few paragraphs. Maybe if Lilly were there for a couple lines and gone after only a few minutes I could accept the character a whole lot more than i do.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal

May 29 2013, 11:28pm
Post #113 of 121
(262 views)
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Actually, that is not an accurate translation
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I really couldn't care less about Lilly or the made up character of Tauriel. I think she is going to be, as Lilly herself put it, " a black mark", in the world of Tolkien. The whole concept of the character from what we have heard so far screams foul and goes against the source material itself. Even the supposed names meaning screams a bunch of crap. "Daughter of Mirkwood"... I thought it was Greenwood to the elves. and since Jackson felt the need to have it turning bad IN the Hobbit timeline. I'm sure the name didn't just change overnight. Some people are just optimistic about her, some are being realistic about her and her involvement in something she doesn't belong in. I guess it makes the changes easier to take for some people to see everything in a positive light. But for me once Jackson started making up characters and changing the plot of the whole story around. All the while trying to justify them, with answers that are in themselves vague and IMO side stepping the questions, he lost any respect I had for him from making LOTR. Sure there were character changes in LOTR BUT The character changes in those films were only minor(in comparison)and any made up characters were none with any real substantial plot deviations, which Tauriel surely creates since she is a totally made up, non Tolkien character. doing things that NEVER HAPPENED in the story. I do not consider the captain of the guard an actual developed character in the book since he was vague and had maybe a couple lines and was gone after a few paragraphs. Maybe if Lilly were there for a couple lines and gone after only a few minutes I could accept the character a whole lot more than i do.  It's not as bad as you fear. "Daughter of Mirkwood" is not the literal translation of the name Tauriel. taur S 'wood', 'forest' -iel feminine name suffix, 'daughter of', 'maiden' Tauriel S 'daughter of the wood', 'forest maiden' The name has nothing to do with reflecting the nature of Mirkwood Forest, so you can at least stop worrying about that. When a story is adapted from one media to another it is often necessary to make some changes to accomodate the nature of the new media. The Hobbit as a children's book can allow Gandalf to drop out of the narrative for an extended period of time with only a vague answer as to what he was up to. A film audience isn't going to put up with that, and so we see Gandalf meeting with the White Council and eventually will see the Council assault Dol Guldur. Likewise, the films must paint a more complete picture of the people and places that Bilbo and the dwarves encounter.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 29 2013, 11:30pm)
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Elenorflower
Gondor

May 30 2013, 12:06am
Post #114 of 121
(260 views)
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her character arc or her character at all. I bet she does a Michelle Rodríguez and starts chewing a cigar.
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens

May 30 2013, 2:59am
Post #115 of 121
(245 views)
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I've seen no one ask the question of who owns the character of Tauriel. It wasn't in Tolkien's book. It's an invention of the writers and probably owned by the studio, producers or director despite the world into which it is placed. This leads me into some questions about how a studio might figure out how to get around certain rights and royalty obligations to the Tolkien Estate, earning more profit from the marketing of Tauriel merchandise. Profit is the kind of thing where investors quickly lose their artistic integrity. What do you think - is it too cynical to think of Tauriel as an opportunistic profit center?
(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 30 2013, 3:01am)
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Yngwulff
Gondor

May 30 2013, 6:06am
Post #116 of 121
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A woman as a warrior does not bother me. Even one like Red Sonja or Lagertha, Ragnar's wife; a shieldmaiden from the Vikings show. Making her a death dealing assasin for the sake just having a token female heroine is another matter. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out
Take this Brother May it Serve you Well Vote for Pedro!
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Semper Fi
Rohan
May 30 2013, 10:37am
Post #117 of 121
(226 views)
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Agreed, the issue shouldn`t be with her gender but with her shooter video game characterisation
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It`s a sad day when Tolkien world has to borrow from video games instead of other way around. And that applies to characters of any gender. If they smack of a video game (all souless shoot`em`up, no substance, obligatory leather fetishism) than it`s really bad. And everything Lilly said about Tauriel so far points out to a typical souless video game knock-off.
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DwellerInDale
Rohan

May 31 2013, 2:50pm
Post #118 of 121
(198 views)
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Montage of images for comparison; you be the judge
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The linked picture shows the two image sources together, Dol Guldur with Gandalf and Evangeline Lilly as Tauriel. Everything seems to match: the grey stone blocks, the triple set of steps, the stone columns, the gnarly trees. Link
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal

May 31 2013, 6:15pm
Post #119 of 121
(175 views)
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I'd say that it could go either way...
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The linked picture shows the two image sources together, Dol Guldur with Gandalf and Evangeline Lilly as Tauriel. Everything seems to match: the grey stone blocks, the triple set of steps, the stone columns, the gnarly trees. There are certainly plenty of similarities between the images. However, I would expect those same kind of conditions to be found within the Desolation of Smaug. In my opionion, it's too close to call.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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t_bomb
Registered User

Jun 1 2013, 4:39pm
Post #120 of 121
(153 views)
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If I had a complaint to anticipate...
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It would be that her outfit isn't sexy enough. Cheers
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Jun 2 2013, 6:10am
Post #121 of 121
(204 views)
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Just have her go skinny dipping with Legolas in some hot springs somewhere.
(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 2 2013, 6:10am)
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