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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
May 27 2013, 5:06pm
Post #1 of 36
(1695 views)
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Have TORN's founders/modars ever considered having an official De-lurk Day?
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Some visitors may just need a little encouragement. You might get some responses from first-timers if they look at it as a just a one-time shot opportunity. Because once you post once, it becomes so much easier to do so again and again. Just an idea.
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Nightingale
Rohan
May 27 2013, 5:42pm
Post #3 of 36
(955 views)
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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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DanielLB
Immortal
May 27 2013, 7:37pm
Post #4 of 36
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I hope the discussions here encourage people to join in all the time. I think we should encourage people to de-lurk all year round. 
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 27 2013, 9:16pm
Post #6 of 36
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While we always encourage the lurkers to join, having an official day can help them jump in. Maybe we have some extra-welcoming posts to go with it, like we ask the members to post about their concerns about de-lurking, or give positive encouragement for others to join.
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
May 27 2013, 10:00pm
Post #7 of 36
(946 views)
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It sounds so much better than de-lurking (a term I have never cared for -- it's sounds too negative and unfriendly to me.)
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Altaira
Superuser
May 27 2013, 10:20pm
Post #8 of 36
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I like the idea and I like Magpie's title.
So, does everyone think a weekend day would be better or a week day? Anyone else reading, feel free to take off your ring and weigh in. 
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Donry
Tol Eressea
May 27 2013, 11:06pm
Post #10 of 36
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as I am one of those folks who are gone most weekends to a cottage without any internet! I do more surfing during the week (not at work either), so it wouldn't surprise me if more folks were around during the weekdays
What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?"
www.onesecondleft.com
@RDon1secleft
http://donryfetor.blogspot.com/
@DonryFetor
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
May 27 2013, 11:45pm
Post #11 of 36
(933 views)
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Or perhaps we could turn things around to make it even easier for people to step into the light.
[In reply to]
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Such as proactively addressing the most common reasons for lurking:
Don't Know How to Post - well, first you've got to be a member of TORn and be logged in -- provide the appropriate link. And for those newbies who get confusticated just coming up with a username or how to create an avatar, offer links to various find-your-hobbit/elf/dwarf name sites and to Magpie's tutorial on personal pix.
Don't Have the Time - for "Take Off the Ring" Day, one simple post is all it takes to be welcomed to the community, e.g. "Hi, my name is GoldberryCrumpet and this is my very first post." (Though actually that sounds a bit like something someone would say at a Lurkers Anonymous meeting, hee, but you get what I mean )
Fear of Backlash/Criticism - this is awkward. Perhaps emphasize the Terms of Agreement and the moderators' responsibility for enforcing it? I'm not certain how to address this one. Some people know how to handle disagreeable disagreement and some people don't.
Is this line of thought going to far? Are my suggestions over-reaching? Anyone's thoughts would be welcome.
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
May 28 2013, 3:24am
Post #12 of 36
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I wouldn't bring up rules whatsoever, even to say the mods are here to protect you. Officiously mentioning rules up front is enough to scare away anyone fearful of doing something wrong.
We're all just here drinking wine, eating cheese and catching some rays. Don't hit them with negative waves, man.
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Loresilme
Valinor
May 28 2013, 12:56pm
Post #13 of 36
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That title is absolutely perfect!
[In reply to]
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And I vote weekday also.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
May 28 2013, 2:12pm
Post #14 of 36
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Is to show people that there is some protection from being verbally attacked/humiliated. The fear of that keeps a lot of people from posting, and it's a valid concern since people can be so nasty on the internet in general (I like politics, but never post on political sites because of all the vitriol). There are also lurkers who feel they don't know as much as other people do, and they don't want to post something that will be ignored or scoffed at, so again, having some assurance via our rules that no one will call you an idiot for your posts would make people feel more welcome.
But I agree with your point that expecting people to read through a bunch of rules before their first post can discourage them, so maybe something briefer like a "mission statement" or a declaration this is a monitored, troll-free zone would help people out. Just my 2 cents.
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Maciliel
Valinor
May 28 2013, 2:38pm
Post #15 of 36
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i think this is a +fabulous+ idea.
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well done, grey elf. : )
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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Maciliel
Valinor
May 28 2013, 2:39pm
Post #16 of 36
(888 views)
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absolutely brilliant, magpie! : )
cheers ---
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
May 28 2013, 3:00pm
Post #17 of 36
(886 views)
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Yes, that's more of what I had in mind, CuriousG
[In reply to]
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Provide a pertinent excerpt or two from the Terms, not the whole magilla. (Suddenly having a vision of Bilbo and his contract which had some puzzling flaps and fell all the way down to his furry toes )
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
May 28 2013, 3:08pm
Post #18 of 36
(883 views)
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They'll still be called an idiot. Rules, like laws, exist as a basis for the enforcement of consequence. Rules are a litmus test of what kind of behavior one can expect that the rules have been enacted to prevent. i.e., Rules against against insulting others means that people insult each other, hence the basis for consequence.
I maintain that "Welcome! Enjoy!" from the staff is message enough to say they are here for you, and that the rules of peaceable assembly are implicitly held within the unofficious welcome.
(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 28 2013, 3:11pm)
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Magpie
Immortal
May 28 2013, 3:12pm
Post #19 of 36
(887 views)
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I think the best way to make people feel comfortable...
[In reply to]
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...is to try to insure their first experiences are enjoyable.
If you are considering folk dancing for the first time, one hopes the first thing you encounter as you walk through the door isn't an assurance that they won't be treated badly and if someone does treat them badly, those people will be dealt with by the managers. :-)
I think more effective is to have a number of activities that newbies
1) can very easily participate in
3) won't feel at any disadvantage by not being *in* on the social culture of the boards
So, for example, a pants thread - the one rule (substitute any word in a quote for the word 'pants') - doesn't require any special knowledge or understanding of the board culture. People who have been here 10 years won't behave any differently than those that have been here 10 minutes.
Other light threads could include getting to know you with an emphasis on Tolkien (I mean... that's why we're here) so... when did you first read/watch Tolkien? Whose your favorite character? What's an interesting or amusing experience you've had connected with the books or movies?
Deeper threads could involve digging to a topic pertinent to different parts of the boards but with topics chosen to provide a good 'first thread at TORn' experience. A special SCOD for LOTR movies. Or something in the RR that is very accessible, that lets people from all levels of scholarship participate. Then people can try out the different areas and see what kinds of discussion take place on those boards.
The next effective way to make new posters feel comfortable is for the more seasoned posters - at least for those threads targeted for the event - not to indulge in in jokes amongst each other : using acronyms a new person might not understand without explaining them --- not referring to past events without explaining them -- etc. If we talk about the boards and the culture we talk about it as if we are a tour guide welcoming people, not as the clique that's been hanging out here forever. I don't think we do that (act like a clique) necessarily. But we can fall into a really easy familiarity with each other, making off hand references to femine, first ager, second ager, or reminisce about Blue Wizard. That's us and I'm not saying don't ever do it. But we might refrain from doing it while we're trying to make new people feel comfortable! :-)
And, if - heavens forbid - a new person is treated rudely, then others just step in and - without calling anyone out - just provide a more positive, supportive response. You essentially just step in front of the rude person and provide another face for the new person to interact with.
As for a mission statement, there used to be a simple one stated at the entry page for the Message Boards and Barliman's: Be friendly and patient with each other. After all, we are just having fun!
I lurk on a forum that is set up to serve neighborhoods. My city has tons of individual neighborhood boards on this forum as does some areas in Las Vegas, Framingham MA, and Christchurch NZ! They have rules like many boards but one they have is: we don't discuss board policies on the board. The policies and TOS are stated and enforced but debate about them takes place off boards by other modes of communication. That keeps the focus of conversations on neighborhoods and localities connecting and not on the boards themselves, thus derailing the purpose of the board.
Although debate and discussion about how TORn's message boards are moderated are allowed, I have come to think the most effective way things are moderated is for it just to happen quietly and without a lot of fuss.
I think the same happens with making new posters feel comfortable. They will feel comfortable because they have lots of opportunities to participate in ways they enjoy and in which they feel welcome Any bad experience will get handled by mods and they'll learn how that works.
LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide
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JWPlatt
Grey Havens
May 28 2013, 3:29pm
Post #20 of 36
(893 views)
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Acronyms, References and Stepping In
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Magpie's approach is a great, positive approach. Avoid Three Letter Acronyms (TLA) without fully spelling them out first. See what I did there? And avoid other such references familiar only to experienced board members. If you need to link to the thread that explains acronyms, it's not very welcoming. Rules are, or should be, easy enough to find for new members that they don't have to be told up front in an officious manner. Overtly stating rules is a negative. People "stepping in," as Magpie says, in support of the guest rather than calling out the offender is a good example of the positive approach which rewards the guest and does not feed the negative attention offenders desire.
(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 28 2013, 3:29pm)
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 28 2013, 3:58pm
Post #21 of 36
(879 views)
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everyone explicitly agrees to abide by the rules when they register. It's been a long time since I registered here, but I remember my authorization e-mail saying that I agree to abide by the rules of the website and the message board, and there might have been a link to the rules.
I don't think it's necessary to re-state those rules, so I agree with you that mentioning them again is redundant.
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Magpie
Immortal
May 28 2013, 4:02pm
Post #22 of 36
(893 views)
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...that I have learned some of these points from people I highly admire. And I highly admire them, in part, because they do things well that I don't always do so well. And I am always a work in progress.
I am better at helping people feel comfortable than confronting those I think aren't behaving well. :-)
I spent years trying to make children who didn't feel successful believe in themselves. And more years helping adults get comfortable trying a new thing (folkdancing) and asking their body to move - in public! - in ways they weren't used to moving.
I am a thinker and I have thought (and still do) very hard about how to be successful in those endeavors. And being a thinker, I tend to want to tell people what I think. But at some point, I realized that new people trying to get comfortable in a new place with a new skill often feel overwhelmed and when they start to feel overwhelmed, the more I talked... the more overwhelmed they got. Even saying, "don't feel overwhelmed" wasn't helping much.
When I saw that bit of panic in a new dancer's eye's I found the best way to support them was just to smile and keep dancing. I was having a good time. I was having a good time with them. I was convinced they would have a good time. It worked way, way, way more often and better - in the moment - than any words I could offer them.
We are here to talk. To converse. To discuss and even debate (in the best use of that term). But I don't think we have to consciously talk to people about how to feel comfortable. We just have to smile and show them we are comfortable. We like having them here. And we think they're going like it here.
LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide
(This post was edited by Magpie on May 28 2013, 4:04pm)
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
May 28 2013, 5:00pm
Post #23 of 36
(891 views)
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So accentuate the positive and keep it casual. No argument from me!
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Eolin of Rohan
The Shire
Jun 4 2013, 3:48am
Post #24 of 36
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As a newbie myself I can say that this sounds great! And excellent advice Magpie:)
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Eolin of Rohan
The Shire
Jun 4 2013, 3:51am
Post #25 of 36
(847 views)
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The Gray Elf: thank you for bringing this up! Just reading this thread encouraged me to post, and to stop lurking! It feels great to have "taken off the ring" :)
(This post was edited by Eolin of Rohan on Jun 4 2013, 3:52am)
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