Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Lilly on Tauriel
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

dik-dik
Lorien


May 27 2013, 1:32pm

Post #76 of 121 (519 views)
Shortcut
You raise an excellent point here, Elizabeth. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Virtue in this story is of another stripe. It has to do with integrity, loyalty, and courage, commitment. And the introduction of clichée characters of any description weakens it.


For me, the virtue that LotR and TH highlight the most is compassion. Ruthlessness is its direct opposite, and coming from one who is not an orc but supposedly one of a high and noble people, it undermines JRRT's message for me.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 27 2013, 2:14pm

Post #77 of 121 (506 views)
Shortcut
I'll be happy to admit to being wrong if Tauriel is a well-realized and interesting character [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The shame of it is that the amnesiatic quality of forum discussion does not hold people accountable and responsible for their opinions. Few will remember or admit they were wrong and it is unfortunately considered bad form to say "I was right." It is even worse in this touchy-feely, morally relative, PC trend we have today to say others were wrong if, in fact, they were. When all opinions are held as equally valid, informed or not, when no one is wrong, there's nothing to learn or improve.



For that matter, I'll be happy to be right so long as there is a damned good reason for Tauriel to be a warrior-maiden. I'm thinking something like her being injured in an Orc attack, possibly being rendered barren by poisoned weapons (losing an unborn child?). She may have even lost her mate to the same attack.

I almost think that this would be too clichéd, then I remember that Peter Jackson is directing.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 27 2013, 3:03pm

Post #78 of 121 (520 views)
Shortcut
Well, yes – I agree with that, too [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the 'old-fashioned' heroines in some of the BBC dramas, for instance (North and South and Pride and Prejudice spring to mind).

I also like Buffy the Vampire Slayer – an original character in an original series, and for me by far the best of the 'slayer-type' females. However, such a character has no place in J. R. R. Tolkien's world.

I'm also not sure the marketing twerps are necessarily to blame, or PJ himself for that matter.

The fact is that as far as the other characters in the films are concerned, there was always a bouncing-off point, i.e. Tolkien's work (for which PJ has always professed so much respect). Although there are differences between the characters in the books and films, there is at least some resemblance between them, with which viewers can identify.

However, this 'Tauriel' creature is an entirely new character, not written into the books by the professor, and she is bound to be alien to the world of Middle-Earth – because the script writers will not be able to equal or better Tolkien, or capture the tone of his characterisations. I do sense some arrogance on someone's part in thinking that they can somehow better the story by the introduction of a new character. There is a reason why J. R. R. Tolkien's books have stood the test of time, despite the lack of ridiculous females toting machine-guns and the like.

I trust that, if this character really has to appear, her role will be very small, otherwise she will be a real turn-off for many viewers. And they should stop promoting the woman.


In Reply To
also I would say that the marketing twerps think that an 'old fashioned' heroine who floats around in nice dresses is going to put girls/women off, because women should, according to them, be seen seen as active and as cool as the boys in a fight. I personally think this is twaddle. I actually like the old fashioned females I see in films, their strength comes from courage and loyalty not by splitting lips and kicking people in the head. Thats why Arwen and Galadriel are so well loved by girls/women, they are dainty velvet clad ladies but have inner strength, Arwens love sustained Aragorn Galadriels power sustaining the fertility of a Whole Kingdom. this is the kind of women other women respond to, and it doesnt hurt if they have lovely floaty frocks too.



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on May 27 2013, 3:04pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 27 2013, 3:56pm

Post #79 of 121 (497 views)
Shortcut
Youre right [In reply to] Can't Post

if old fashioned female characters were not popular with contemporary females, then why would such characters as Elizabeth Crawley or the Downtown Abbey female ensemble have such success?

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Elenorflower
Gondor


May 27 2013, 4:36pm

Post #80 of 121 (496 views)
Shortcut
*I just had a horrible thought* [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if some bright spark tries to modernize Pride and Prejudice and instead of Elizabeth Bennet bowling Darcy over with her wit and charm, she karate chops him in the family jewels and runs off to start a ladies boxing and cigar chewing club.


Semper Fi
Rohan

May 27 2013, 5:28pm

Post #81 of 121 (464 views)
Shortcut
Already done in the book Pride and Prejudice and Zombies [In reply to] Can't Post

Elizabeth Bennett is an axe-wielding zombie slayer. I`m not kidding:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...rejudice_and_Zombies

There`s also Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters:

http://en.wikipedia.org/...ity_and_Sea_Monsters

Both book are set in Austin time and use her characters...with a Buffy twist so to speak.

I know that movie rights to P&P&Z were purchased but I guess that boxoffice fiasco of Abrahan Lincoln the Vampire Hunter put the movie on hold. Scarlett JOhansson was courted to play Elizabeth.


Cirashala
Valinor


May 27 2013, 6:12pm

Post #82 of 121 (448 views)
Shortcut
LOL!!!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

*very very nearly spews grape nuts all over my screen*

Bwahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ADORE the BBC Pride and Prejudice! Verbally, she most definitely "kicked him in the chops!"

Sounds like a great project for Mel Brooks!

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 27 2013, 8:12pm

Post #83 of 121 (434 views)
Shortcut
LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

what a dire, dire, image...Wink


And of course, sha has to be a repressed homosexual as well ...

Obviously, there would be explosions. And 10 minutes long scenes of shooting and kicking bad men in the family jewels.

Female power!!
Laugh

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


totoro
Lorien

May 28 2013, 3:34am

Post #84 of 121 (414 views)
Shortcut
Good points [In reply to] Can't Post

However, these are probably the only concerns that made any sense to me re the dislike of Tauriel, and they would be equally applicable to a male elf. For example: Justin Timberlake was playing the badass elf Captain and was in interviews saying how he was ruthless and you don't want to meet him in a dark alley.

The concerns I hear are from men and women alike who are concerned that Tauriel is a chick. I am training my daughter to be able to wrestle and she is pretty tough. I don't want her to get pushed around by some jerk-off in high school. She is reasonably likely to be able to kick the crap out of a small minority of males, and can probably defend herself well enough to get away and get help if she needs to. I am perfectly fine with her perfecting her skills, should she choose, to be able to defeat a majority of males. She is not a "stereotype" or less of a woman (well, girl right now) because she can kick butt. She is a minority, of course.

Tauriel can also be that minority. If she is handled properly, I think it works just fine. Tolkein already established that some females are good fighters (e.g., Eowyn). He also established that elves are just a little better at just about everything than humans. I don't think they will present Eowyn as being able to take out her peers, like Legolas, but if she can beat a substantial majority of male elves, a large majority of humans, and perhaps even be one of the best shots around with the bow, that is not a big deal to me.

Just because it might be an attempt to appeal to teenage boys doesn't make in an automatic fail any more than the makers of Shrek tried to appeal to the parents to bring in more revenue for a kids' movie. If it works for both purposes, more power to them.


In Reply To
I love the 'old-fashioned' heroines in some of the BBC dramas, for instance (North and South and Pride and Prejudice spring to mind).

I also like Buffy the Vampire Slayer – an original character in an original series, and for me by far the best of the 'slayer-type' females. However, such a character has no place in J. R. R. Tolkien's world.

I'm also not sure the marketing twerps are necessarily to blame, or PJ himself for that matter.

The fact is that as far as the other characters in the films are concerned, there was always a bouncing-off point, i.e. Tolkien's work (for which PJ has always professed so much respect). Although there are differences between the characters in the books and films, there is at least some resemblance between them, with which viewers can identify.

However, this 'Tauriel' creature is an entirely new character, not written into the books by the professor, and she is bound to be alien to the world of Middle-Earth – because the script writers will not be able to equal or better Tolkien, or capture the tone of his characterisations. I do sense some arrogance on someone's part in thinking that they can somehow better the story by the introduction of a new character. There is a reason why J. R. R. Tolkien's books have stood the test of time, despite the lack of ridiculous females toting machine-guns and the like.

I trust that, if this character really has to appear, her role will be very small, otherwise she will be a real turn-off for many viewers. And they should stop promoting the woman.


In Reply To
also I would say that the marketing twerps think that an 'old fashioned' heroine who floats around in nice dresses is going to put girls/women off, because women should, according to them, be seen seen as active and as cool as the boys in a fight. I personally think this is twaddle. I actually like the old fashioned females I see in films, their strength comes from courage and loyalty not by splitting lips and kicking people in the head. Thats why Arwen and Galadriel are so well loved by girls/women, they are dainty velvet clad ladies but have inner strength, Arwens love sustained Aragorn Galadriels power sustaining the fertility of a Whole Kingdom. this is the kind of women other women respond to, and it doesnt hurt if they have lovely floaty frocks too.




Elenorflower
Gondor


May 28 2013, 1:35pm

Post #85 of 121 (362 views)
Shortcut
fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

but I question the need for a 'deadly killer Elf', the Elves in the book were in the forest feasting and merry making, they were not flying through the air killing things. why make the film even more violent? why the need for yet more battle/fight scenes? dont we have enough already? its violent overkill imo, and Tauriel is just another cliche fighter. The Elves of Mirkwood were supposed to be more rustic and they liked to party, why not show them in a more peaceful light, more enchanting, The way they disappeared when the Dwarves approached the feast has remained in my imagination as being a very magical and strange thing, it will be terrible if they dont show this in the next film. Mirkwood is a silent and creepy place, full of stealthy and weird creatures that creep up on the dwarves and Bilbo, this atmosphere would be destroyed by a load of fighting Elves charging about Killing orcs and spiders. Bilbo and the Spiders is another iconic scene that would be destroyed by too much fighting, he only kills the spider out of sheer necessity, he is forced to do it, deadly killer Elves destroy this balance.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on May 28 2013, 1:39pm)


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 28 2013, 3:06pm

Post #86 of 121 (357 views)
Shortcut
I disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I certainly don't have any concerns about a character being a 'chick', and that is by no means the concern of most people. My concern – and that of many others – is that the filmmakers have taken it upon themselves to add a character that is not part of Tolkien's world. For the reasons I have given, it is simply inappropriate for them to try and do this. Unless the role of this character is very small, her addition to the story is likely to turn off many people, in my view.

The books have stood the test of time without such additions. They are unneeded in the film.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 28 2013, 4:00pm

Post #87 of 121 (335 views)
Shortcut
There were guards for the prisoners. [In reply to] Can't Post

This character has been listed as a member of the prison guards, so he/she is part of the original story. I don't see a contradiction.


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 28 2013, 4:57pm

Post #88 of 121 (342 views)
Shortcut
Tauriel will be fine [In reply to] Can't Post

She will probably get a small role within the Mirkwood sequences. Whats the big deal? All elves have "killer" capabilities. Just because she described in an interview a particular quality she might have doesn't mean anything considering we haven't seen the movie yet and know nothing about mostly everything. Just more unnecessary speculative hate being thrown on an unknown character. Crazy


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 28 2013, 5:01pm

Post #89 of 121 (338 views)
Shortcut
Role Size [In reply to] Can't Post

She is is reported to have been on set much longer than is required for a "small role." Things learned along the way only increase the concern - not just one article.


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 28 2013, 5:24pm

Post #90 of 121 (323 views)
Shortcut
Sure, if she's just a briefly featured prison guard, that's fine [In reply to] Can't Post

However, that is all she should be – not a major made-up character. There are so many interesting existing and new characters that DO actually belong in Tolkien's story in a major way and need to be developed. The insertion of a made-up character is unneeded and undesirable (for reasons already mentioned).


In Reply To
This character has been listed as a member of the prison guards, so he/she is part of the original story. I don't see a contradiction.



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 28 2013, 6:50pm

Post #91 of 121 (308 views)
Shortcut
Merry-making Wood-elves... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, the Mirkwood Elves love to feast and make-merry in the region of Northern Mirkwood that they control. However, it is because of the rest of the forest being tainted and filled with giant spiders, black squirrels and Orcs (and the occassional spies) that they do need to patrol the borders and be prepared to fight. One could make a good argument that this is what book-Legolas might have been doing (had Tolkien invented him at the time of The Hobbit) while his father was questioning Dwarves found within their borders.

I'm still hoping that Tauriel won't be a ridiculously over-the-top character and that she will be reasonably motivated to act as she does. I'm fine with her being a mostly original character (possibly loosely based on one in the book) as long as she doesn't take undue attention away from the main story and lead characters.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 28 2013, 7:08pm

Post #92 of 121 (307 views)
Shortcut
Maybe she'll be back... [In reply to] Can't Post

...for Bo5A. Plenty of opportunities for warrior Elves there. My hope is that we'll see her as prison guard and get to know her a bit in DoS, and then see her fighting in TaBA. That would be appropriate.








Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 28 2013, 7:18pm

Post #93 of 121 (303 views)
Shortcut
This is about what I expect... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...for Bo5A. Plenty of opportunities for warrior Elves there. My hope is that we'll see her as prison guard and get to know her a bit in DoS, and then see her fighting in TaBA. That would be appropriate.



Tauriel will be introduced in Mirkwood. Then we'll get to know her better in Thranduil's palace. Finally we will see the conclusion of her character-arc in There and Back Again.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 28 2013, 7:50pm

Post #94 of 121 (295 views)
Shortcut
I dont expect the [In reply to] Can't Post

writers to hire a recognized actress like E Lilly for just a few background scenes with a very minor, supporting role...

I am expecting a significant push for a secondary character...perhaps with more scenes and screen time given to her than Oin, Gloin, Dwalin etc...

And thats what worries me...

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


dormouse
Half-elven


May 28 2013, 9:44pm

Post #95 of 121 (272 views)
Shortcut
It's all a question of how it's done. isn't it.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and that's what we don't know and can't guess.

They have pulled this sort of thing off very successfully before with the Rohirrim mother in Two Towers who sends her children off to Edoras with news of the burning of the Westfold and turns up again at Helm's Deep. She served a real purpose in the carrying the story forward, doesn't detract from it at all, and I haven't heard a single complaint about her, even though she was a complete invention.

I'm hoping they will achieve something similar with Tauriel.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 28 2013, 11:00pm

Post #96 of 121 (272 views)
Shortcut
She'll do more than 'Morwen" I'm sure. [In reply to] Can't Post

As others have observed, they wouldn't hire such a recognizable actress for only a few seconds' screen time. As I noted above, there are legitimate and interesting things for her to do. I'm just hoping we don't get a hokey, cliches "spunky girl" or love interest out of it.








Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 29 2013, 12:14am

Post #97 of 121 (242 views)
Shortcut
Well, let's just hope that Peter Jackson has been paying attention... [In reply to] Can't Post

Peter? On the whole, the fans do NOT want Tauriel as either a love interest or as a "Mary Sue" character. Otherwise, she's fine as long as her presence makes sense and she doesn't detract from the story as a whole.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 29 2013, 1:24am

Post #98 of 121 (244 views)
Shortcut
Small relatively speaking [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
She is is reported to have been on set much longer than is required for a "small role." Things learned along the way only increase the concern - not just one article.


Once the company is out of Mirkwood she's done most likely pending the DG stuff(which is all about the Counsel most likely). PJ said the barrels were "relatively early" in the movie. She just isn't gunna get the screen and vocal time everyone is so worried about. Some fighting scenes and some scenes in Thranduil's halls then done. She can't possibly ruin the movie in any meaningful way. I don't even consider her a well known actor....she'll always be the chick from Lost to me Wink


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


May 29 2013, 2:55am

Post #99 of 121 (234 views)
Shortcut
I agree with everything you said... [In reply to] Can't Post

however I feel there have already been worse transgressions on the part of the filmmakers (what Jackson has so far done with the appendices material). For me personally, giving identities to one or two of the Mirkwood elves is fine, as long as it doesn't overshadow any aspect of the story-telling. From what I can recall, none of the Mirkwood elves are even named in the book (Thranduil is only referred to as the Elven-king), so I'm ok with Tauriel's inclusion, as long as she's used extremely sparingly. Tauriel can't be any worse than Azog...


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 29 2013, 5:44am

Post #100 of 121 (215 views)
Shortcut
Sorry, but I'm a complainer about it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not because she and her family were "a complete invention", but because I really didn't care for the acting or the dialogue. The idea was better than the execution, for me.

I've enjoyed all four movies so far, but honestly, a lot of the totally invented stuff makes me cringe. It's a quality issue with me. I just don't have all that much faith in the writing team, so, yeah, I'm a little concerned about Tauriel.

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.