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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Three main action sequences for DOS

Anubis
Rivendell


May 24 2013, 9:08am

Post #1 of 10 (1115 views)
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Three main action sequences for DOS Can't Post

Iīm constantly trying to classify things, and turns out I realized there are 3 main action sequences in each movie. By action sequences I mean battles in which somebody eventually dies (good or evil), usually a first one which doesnīt adds much to the plot, a middle one which stops evil temporarily and a final one which ends a threat. So for example Weathertop wouldnīt count. They would be:

FOTR: Last Alliance, Balinīs Tomb, Amon Hen
TT: wargs, Helmīs Deep, Last march of the Ents
ROTK: Osgiliath, Minas Tirith, Fields of Pelennor
UJ: Azanulbizar, trolls, Goblintown

In my mind, Pelennor and Minas Tirith are two separate battles, filmed in different styles and shown at different times(one, then the other), while Black Gate was not shown much. I mean, Pelennor alone is much bigger than Amon Hen.

Having said this, the obvious question is: what are the 3 main for DOS?

For starters, we have Smaug. He could die at the end, after a big battle. The problem is that I donīt know how PJ is going to represent the battle. He could pull out some scenes of dwarves trying to get on the dragon (hope not) and eventually the arrow. Soldiers running around, some screams, houses on fire... To portray a dragon attack is harder than it sounds. That is why I think he might, just might, introduce some orcs and stuff attacking Laketown, Helmīs Deep style. And the dessert would be the dragon, so to speak.

Bear in mind this is just pure speculation. Even if Smaug is one of the three, there are still two left. Most of us have seen the sneak peek, so we have seen the elves battling the orcs in Mirkwood. That could be one, I saw quite a bit of stunts. It could be the introductory one. Spiders are not likely, since I expect the battle to be shorter than elves vs orcs.

Finally, what could be the third one? Well, there has been a lot of talk about Dol Guldur, but the thing is, that would leave us without a potential battle in TABA. We only know of the five armiesībattle, so it is a bit unlikely.

However they could divide the battle of Dol Guldur in two parts. Maybe Dol Guldur goes in the offensive in this movie, or maybe itīs just the white council attacking and failing (Galadriel carrying Gandalf) and in the next movie they could introduce the real battle.

Of course, this is all assuming there are just three main battles. Angelic

Thoughts?


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


May 24 2013, 10:02am

Post #2 of 10 (507 views)
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Only three? I think there are more [In reply to] Can't Post

The question is what is a "main action sequence"? If you count the Azanulbizar-flashback (which is about 5min long and cut into several parts) as one of them... what about these:

Return Of The King:
Battle of the Black Gate together with the Mount Doom fight (it's one of the most epic moments of the whole trilogy you only have to listen to Shores music of that scene)

An Unexpected Journey:
Out of the Frying Pan (Attack of the Wargs, climbing the trees, burning the trees, fight between Thorin/Azog, Orcs vs. Dwarves, Eagle rescue)

---

Desolation Of Smaug:
I'm very sure that the barrel escape will be even more action packed than in the book. I've already said somewhere else that I'm sure that they'll take an Orc attack sequence from an early FOTR script and translate it into this scene:
Abandoned Storyboard Sequence Sarn Gebir Rapids Chase

Also we already knew from the DOS-live event that there will be an fight/battle between Orcs and Elves of Thranduils Woodland Realm

But we also need a scene where the Dwarves can fight again... perhaps they were attacked by Orcs in Mirkwood? Or they expand the Spider attack scene? We know from the Lego set, that Legolas and Tauriel are going to appear in this scene so perhaps it becomes bigger than in the books and it's not only Bilbo who defeats them?

And we also will have something more intense in our White Council subplot. Perhaps a White Council vs Nazgûl and Sauron fight?


BTW: I don't think that we gonna see Smaugs attack on Lake Town in the second movie.


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Súlimë
Rivendell


May 24 2013, 10:47am

Post #3 of 10 (452 views)
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If we go by three main action sequences [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't count Azanulbizar as the first one.

I'd go: Trolls, Goblintown, Azog vs Thorin

And that will still work with your definition of
1st one: doesn't add much to the plot except for character development
2nd one: stops 'the bad guys' temporarily
3rd one: ends a threat (with them being saved by the eagles -- technically a defeat, but still...)

My guess for DOS, going by the formula
1 - spiders
2 - barrels (I'm sure this will be extended into a not-so-clean escape where people get to shoot some arrows)
3 - Smaug


dik-dik
Lorien


May 24 2013, 12:33pm

Post #4 of 10 (389 views)
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Re: three DoS action sequences [In reply to] Can't Post

My guesses would be Dwarves vs. spiders + Elves vs. Orcs, Smaug vs. Laketown, and White Council vs. Necromancer.
I could happily do without the Elves though: lethal chick guards aside, action and battles is one of the least interesting things for me in movies. I'd personally prefer one believably rendered broken limb or starvation to a hundred of creatively killed orcs. Wink

I hope they don't do an orc attack on Laketown - unlike the impenetrable Deep that you mention, the people in a wooden city would have about as much chance to withstand orcs as those at Edoras. Crazy

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Arannir
Valinor


May 24 2013, 12:46pm

Post #5 of 10 (392 views)
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Although I am not sure about... [In reply to] Can't Post

... three major action sequences per movie, I would say those of DoS and TABA will be:


DoS: Spiders, Barrel Scene (with Orc attack), Dol Guldur

TABA: Smaug's death, Battle of the Five Armies


At some points there might be a confrontation with Beorn and the Orcs... depending on whether he will be involved in Dol Guldur or not.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Semper Fi
Rohan

May 26 2013, 11:48am

Post #6 of 10 (139 views)
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I think you`re right though I can`t imagine leaving Smaug attack out of DoS [In reply to] Can't Post

That`s what sets the movies apart from LOTR. Dol Guldur is yet another battle like many battles but Smaug attack is something that hasn`t been seen in the series (excluding brief teaser of Erebor in AUJ). Moving it into TABA where BOFA is the centerpiece would be anticlimactic. Just too much money shots for one money instead of spreading the wealth evenly.

besides, Smaug plot deserves to be the centerpeice not just a side story. I`ll be very miffed if they show more care for Dol Guldur than for this. Everyone wants to see Smaug unleashed. Not so much lumberjack Galadriel carrying Gandalf on her back or whatever. I mean, is gaaldriel even that popular character?


Anubis
Rivendell


May 26 2013, 8:06pm

Post #7 of 10 (111 views)
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What about the white council? [In reply to] Can't Post

I expect them to do something, at least a skirmish between Dol Guldur forces and somebody. It wonīt be easy for the white council to stay on the blissful side of things, and Iīm pretty sure they will escalate soon.


Anubis
Rivendell


May 26 2013, 8:15pm

Post #8 of 10 (110 views)
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I see what you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Smile I believe the action is crucial for the middle earth movies, though, and I have to say they have some of the best scenes in the whole cinema history. And about the Laketown matter, well, Jackson did sacrifice a bunch of elves in Helmīs Deep for the sake of drama, I could perfectly picture him sending some orcs to kill people. Sly


dik-dik
Lorien


May 26 2013, 9:05pm

Post #9 of 10 (103 views)
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re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Smile I believe the action is crucial for the middle earth movies, though, [..]


Very true. I believe action is overrated, but I don't have a problem with others fancying it. :)


In Reply To
And about the Laketown matter, well, Jackson did sacrifice a bunch of elves in Helmīs Deep for the sake of drama, I could perfectly picture him sending some orcs to kill people.


I hope he won't, lol. As far as I am concerned, Smaug's fire ought to be disastrous enough on its own without getting added to. I'd be quite content if one half of the orcs was busy at Dol Guldur at that point, and the other doing a muster in the Grey Mountains, preparing for the upcoming Epic Battle. Tongue

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Semper Fi
Rohan

May 26 2013, 9:25pm

Post #10 of 10 (121 views)
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Action is great when it advances the plot and develops characters [In reply to] Can't Post

It`s mindless action that most movies suffer from that give action a bad name but when done right action can serve as a great point of characterisation just like any "quiet" scene that many refer to as "character moments".

 
 

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