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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
enough is enough
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jimmyfenn
Rohan


May 22 2013, 3:09pm

Post #1 of 150 (3262 views)
Shortcut
     enough is enough  

radaghast is the necromancer?

azog is a zombie?

bards son at the bofa?

necromancer characterised?

tauriel?

just a handfull of speculation and self indulgance from the hobbit films.

tolkien would be turning in his grave

we need to reign this in otherwise this trilogy is gonna turn into a joke.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Shagrat
Gondor

May 22 2013, 3:11pm

Post #2 of 150 (1506 views)
Shortcut
     Why post this? [In reply to]  

Most of this is, as you say, speculation. Why don't we just wait until we find out more or, better yet, until we see the second film before we throw our toys out of the pram?


Ffnir
Rohan


May 22 2013, 3:13pm

Post #3 of 150 (1381 views)
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     You forgot Zombie Smaug [In reply to]  

and his eye which becomes the eye of Sauron as he is possesed by the necromancer at the bofa ! That kind of thing would make the third hobbit film look like The Mummy : Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


May 22 2013, 3:14pm

Post #4 of 150 (1298 views)
Shortcut
     apples and oranges [In reply to]  

People's ideas and speculations on these forums, and how the movie is actually made are two different things. I don't see why we can't have fun guessing and speculating. I suspect the movie will go on without us. Wink

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


DanielLB
Immortal


May 22 2013, 3:24pm

Post #5 of 150 (1355 views)
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     Enough is enough! [In reply to]  

Where is this vlog? Wink


Arannir
Valinor


May 22 2013, 3:33pm

Post #6 of 150 (1324 views)
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     I see no danger of this turning into a joke whatsoever. [In reply to]  

I guess AUJ pretty much showed who will like this trilogy and who will not... with a certain percentage in the middle that will change their mind.


But I personally would lose a lot of respect for PJ and Company as artists if they let themselves and their project be "reigned in".



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 22 2013, 3:36pm

Post #7 of 150 (1268 views)
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     But they should still show respect to Tolkien's project [In reply to]  

they shouldn't have to be "reigned in" but they should have shown some respect to the source material and not felt they needed to rewrite a large chunk of it. Most of the people with issues with the film admit they loved the parts where Jackson stuck to the source material. Had they stuck to the source material I don't think ANYONE would have had an issue with the film...

Just a thought Wink


RosieLass
Valinor


May 22 2013, 3:43pm

Post #8 of 150 (1244 views)
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     Who is "they"? [In reply to]  

We have no information from the film makers about any of this stuff, and frankly, most of it sounds too ridiculous, even for PJ.

As for the fans, why should we rein in anything? Why can't we speculate and come up with silly or serious ideas of what we want or don't want to see?

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Arannir
Valinor


May 22 2013, 3:44pm

Post #9 of 150 (1217 views)
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     I am not so sure... [In reply to]  

... I for one never trusted the Hobbit to be the perfect material for a movie that comes after the LotR trilogy. I always felt the expansion was necessary.

Now of course one can start the whole discussion again of how the changes are not what is in the appendicies etc pp.

I think the two of us know by now how we feel about them and judge them completely differently.


I, however, have not seen a change yet where I would say: This was respectless to Tolkien.

I simply have a very different opinion of what "in Tolkien's spirit" means. I am just glad that PJ and Co stuck to their vision of what the great Professor gave them. Made up story-lines included.


And seeing how the movie is perceived by a wide audience and how sales for several Tolkien books went up (at least here in Germany) - I see no reason for reigning in anything. I hope PJ does some strnger editing for DoS and TABA and other TE-EE version decisions... but I certainly do not want those things to come from anywhere but PJ's own thoughts, realizations and insights.

Nothing I hate more than an artist who tries to make his vision fit in someone else's wish.



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on May 22 2013, 3:49pm)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


May 22 2013, 3:55pm

Post #10 of 150 (1219 views)
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     movie fix [In reply to]  

my main problem is that many fans seem to have no problem and are enthusiastic about with these ludicrous ideas , ludicrous in relation to the original story. i posted earlier this week about the new tolkein book being released. no one seems to care a great deal about that. people would rather get there big movie trilogy high octance hollywood fix than care about the subtle nuances that exist in tolkiens work. this is why we are getting these films the way they are, because unfortunately thats what people want.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 22 2013, 4:01pm

Post #11 of 150 (1162 views)
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     If Jackson wanted his own vision [In reply to]  

maybe he should have wrote an all original script instead of feeling the need to alter Tolkien's so drastically. If your adapting something IMO you should have to put your ego aside and put on the screen what is in the source material. Not make up a bunch of nonsense that never happened anywhere in the authors excessive amount of material written to flesh out the already existing story.

When Peter Jackson stuck to simple embellishment of Tolkien's work (like the Baggend sequence) the film worked rather well and was as close to perfect as it can get. Once we get OTT action where there was none, or made up characters doing made up things that never happened in the story, its not adapting anymore its rewriting. Personally I think more authors or their representatives should be like J K Rawlings and force the film makers to make the film their way, instead of giving them "artistic license" to do what ever they want to the source material. I don't see any respect to Tolkien in the dwarfs riding on a stone giant, or resurrecting Azog just to chase Thorin and company all over mimddle earth for some made up reason that is never explained WHY Azog has a beef with the line of Durin. I would see more respect in taking what Tolkien wrote and simply embellishing it to fit the visual medium. Not stand it on ts head, shake it around and see what falls out, making up the bits you don't like just because you can.


Arannir
Valinor


May 22 2013, 4:01pm

Post #12 of 150 (1189 views)
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     I would be surprised if this is true to the majority of fans here. [In reply to]  


In Reply To
people would rather get there big movie trilogy high octance hollywood fix than care about the subtle nuances that exist in tolkiens work.



I have not read the new book with the Arthur tales yet... I am interested in them but not overly exicted since Tolkien catches me most when his writing is set in Arda.

That does not make me someone who only cares for the movies... not to mention that misguided Hollywood-remark imho.

I love Tolkien, I adore the lore, I can debate about the smallest detail in those books till the cows come home or my friend hate me. And still like those changes or at least feel open about them.

Same goes for many people, I guess, who do not like to be labelled something just because someone else feels that something ludicrous is going on. Not everybody agrees on that. Certainly not all true Tolkien fans. Whatever "true" means.



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Arannir
Valinor


May 22 2013, 4:03pm

Post #13 of 150 (1145 views)
Shortcut
     You have told me that before. [In reply to]  

And I will continue to emphasis that we disagree on those things Wink

But Middle-earth is big enough for both of us, I guess :D



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


RosieLass
Valinor


May 22 2013, 4:03pm

Post #14 of 150 (1163 views)
Shortcut
     For the record, I have zero interest in Arthurian legend. [In reply to]  

So I'm not going to read a book about it, even if it was written by Tolkien.

And the thread that talked about Radagast being the Necromancer? I'm pretty sure that was tongue-in-cheek.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


May 22 2013, 4:10pm

Post #15 of 150 (1149 views)
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     zer interest in arthurian legend? [In reply to]  

I would suggest becoming at least alittle interested, heck where would we be without merlin? (gandalf) arthur ?(aragorn) faeries? (galadriel) avalon (lothlorien) the list of influences if not direct are intrinsically there, so its silly to say your not interested, you already are!

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


RosieLass
Valinor


May 22 2013, 4:11pm

Post #16 of 150 (1155 views)
Shortcut
     Nope, none. Zip. Zero. [In reply to]  

I'm not really a fantasy fan, for that matter. I just like Tolkien.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Ardamr
Valinor


May 22 2013, 4:15pm

Post #17 of 150 (1121 views)
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     I'm with RosieLass [In reply to]  

I love Tolkien, but I have no interest in King Arthur - the same lack of interest I had in The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrun when it came out. If Christopher ever put out another Middle-earth book, I'd be all over that. As it is, the new book just isn't for me and that's why I haven't been in the threads about it.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undmiel




The Mitch King
Rohan


May 22 2013, 4:18pm

Post #18 of 150 (1120 views)
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     That was my thread!!!! [In reply to]  


In Reply To
So I'm not going to read a book about it, even if it was written by Tolkien.

And the thread that talked about Radagast being the Necromancer? I'm pretty sure that was tongue-in-cheek.


I was joking obviously haha he did bring an animal back from the dead using magic tho!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


May 22 2013, 4:20pm

Post #19 of 150 (1180 views)
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     i think that would make sense actually [In reply to]  

if done right it would be cool.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 22 2013, 4:29pm

Post #20 of 150 (1136 views)
Shortcut
     I'll try to poke through these quick [In reply to]  


In Reply To
radaghast is the necromancer?

In Reply To

That was my thread, it was a joke and nothing PJ would ever do.


In Reply To
azog is a zombie?

In Reply To

I agree this would be stupid and I LIKE Azog. Though we have no idea yet so we can't criticize something we dont know.


In Reply To
bards son at the bofa?

In Reply To

We have no idea only fan speculation. They have too many characters than need "hero moments" to fit in a random kid so we'll see.


In Reply To
necromancer characterised?

In Reply To

Necromancer is a character so it makes sense he will be "characterized" haha What can Benedict Cumberbatch do wrong? We also have no idea yet the size of the role sooooooo just speculation again.


In Reply To
tauriel?

In Reply To

She might be cool who knows? I certainly don't go into any movie with my mind made up about whether something works or not.


In Reply To
just a handfull of speculation and self indulgance from the hobbit films.

In Reply To

Yep just speculation....the hobbit films are not to blame though since we only have seen ONE of them.


In Reply To
tolkien would be turning in his grave

In Reply To

I don't know about that.


In Reply To
we need to reign this in otherwise this trilogy is gonna turn into a joke.


I'll predict right now this is going to be an epic trilogy just as much as LOTR when all is said and done. 1/3 of a whole trilogy does not outweigh the other 2/3. We haven't even seen Smaug yet!!! Andddddd I'm done. Smile


jimmyfenn
Rohan


May 22 2013, 4:37pm

Post #21 of 150 (1097 views)
Shortcut
     so were playing this game [In reply to]  


In Reply To

In Reply To
radaghast is the necromancer?

In Reply To

That was my thread, it was a joke and nothing PJ would ever do.

- i know, my inclusion of if it was to make a point of the silliness around this trilogy. i dont think for a second this would happen


In Reply To
azog is a zombie?

In Reply To

I agree this would be stupid and I LIKE Azog. Though we have no idea yet so we can't criticize something we dont know.

-same reason as above, but people actually think this would be ok.


In Reply To
bards son at the bofa?

In Reply To

We have no idea only fan speculation. They have too many characters than need "hero moments" to fit in a random kid so we'll see.

i see no reason why this could not happen, thats why i mentioned it.


In Reply To
necromancer characterised?

In Reply To

Necromancer is a character so it makes sense he will be "characterized" haha What can Benedict Cumberbatch do wrong? We also have no idea yet the size of the role sooooooo just speculation again.

tolkien never characterised this version of sauron, so we are just blindly making stuffup , very important stuff, stuff that alters the core of the original writing.


In Reply To
tauriel?

In Reply To

She might be cool who knows? I certainly don't go into any movie with my mind made up about whether something works or not.

she will never be cool, dont kid yourself.


In Reply To
just a handfull of speculation and self indulgance from the hobbit films.

In Reply To

Yep just speculation....the hobbit films are not to blame though since we only have seen ONE of them.

cat argue here.


In Reply To
tolkien would be turning in his grave

In Reply To

I don't know about that.

i do.


In Reply To
we need to reign this in otherwise this trilogy is gonna turn into a joke.


I'll predict right now this is going to be an epic trilogy just as much as LOTR when all is said and done. 1/3 of a whole trilogy does not outweigh the other 2/3. We haven't even seen Smaug yet!!! Andddddd I'm done. Smile


thangod your done, feel like i hadnt done my homework properly. this was rather patronising.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Elessar
Valinor


May 22 2013, 4:38pm

Post #22 of 150 (1090 views)
Shortcut
     wow [In reply to]  

Not what you said mind you but that statement you said I find to be silly and looking to get people riled up.

I have the Arthur book coming. I will give it a read and see what I think.

I'm like you. I love Tolkien and the world he created. I have issues with the books and movies but I could sit and chat/listen all day long. I love the subject as much as I love anything (outside of family/faith).

Honestly, that comment once again comes across as certain people are NARF's and that isn't a very respectful way to approach things.



Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 22 2013, 4:40pm

Post #23 of 150 (1065 views)
Shortcut
     The hedgehog wasn't all-dead... [In reply to]  

He was only mosty-dead. Which is lucky as he didn't even have any pockets to go through looking for loose change.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Oin's parasite
Rivendell


May 22 2013, 4:41pm

Post #24 of 150 (1078 views)
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     Way to judge a film before we actually KNOW anything [In reply to]  

Unsure

"I've got parasites as big as my arm!"

(This post was edited by Oin's parasite on May 22 2013, 4:45pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 22 2013, 4:55pm

Post #25 of 150 (1052 views)
Shortcut
     Hummm [In reply to]  

1 What????????

2 Maybe...if so, someones gotta send the the receipt at Dol Guldur .

3 He has a son? As long as hes an extra with just a few lines, with a clera purpose...

4 Thranduil's lover , right?. You like death?? LET ME GIVE IT TO YA!


For me the trilogy, already is a joke...a bad joke which tastes sweet at first, then turns sour and leaves a rather smoky, bland after taste...
Wink

I dont think we can regain anything...its not like Jackson listens to a few grumpy Tolkienites...He has something much more powerfull, and terrible which gave him and boyens the secret to properly adapting TH :

The got hold of ....THE APPENDICEEEEES!! Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

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