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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
A couple questions for inquiry

The Mitch King
Rohan


May 22 2013, 2:20am

Post #1 of 23 (1218 views)
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A couple questions for inquiry Can't Post

1) Is Radagast the Necromancer? No seriously though didn't he bring an animal back from the dead? and he lives in Mirkwood...could be Sauron who knows?

2) Like it or not we are all stuck with Azog(hopefully for only a short time left though I'm not optimistic). I'm really worried he will overshadow and take away from Bolg's role the rest of the way including leading the evil force at the BoFA. What do you guys think?

3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?


lurtz2010
Rohan

May 22 2013, 2:39am

Post #2 of 23 (623 views)
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you're probably right about Radagast [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps he is really an evil wizard but doesn't always know it because he has a mental illness similar to Gollum? When he sees the Necromancer maybe he was looking in a mirror that was showing him his true form. What if he was the one who lead the orcs to the company near trollshaw? Was he really trying to "draw them off"? I think you might be on to something here.

I think Azog will be at bo5a and Bolg will be the bad orc of DolGuldur.


bungobaggins
Lorien


May 22 2013, 2:39am

Post #3 of 23 (555 views)
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Hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

1) There were no witnesses to back up Radagast's story, and Gandalf just took everything he said on faith. So that could be true. Wink

2) If Azog doesn't die early on in DOS, then introducing Bolg as a secondary villain would complicate things. The casual viewer would become confused. "Who is Bolg?" They haven't even established his relationship to Azog yet, and I have a feeling they won't (just imagine the average viewer wrapping their brains around the idea of orc families Laugh). But I do think that Azog will survive until the third film. In the second film we'll probably see him and his band of orcs attack the company as they flee from the Elven kingdom in an intense barrel escape sequence that will contain several belief suspending waterfall drops la Indiana Jones IV. Tongue

3) As much as I would like to see the necromancer and hear him, I think he should remain a mystery. Sauron was terrifying and powerful because we never see him (apart from the prologue), and the characters never see him. I'm afraid it will end up like the end of The Wizard of Oz. Now that they've revealed the wizard, he is not as scary or threatening.


(This post was edited by bungobaggins on May 22 2013, 2:44am)


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 22 2013, 3:54am

Post #4 of 23 (518 views)
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Woah you just got me thinking! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Perhaps he is really an evil wizard but doesn't always know it because he has a mental illness similar to Gollum? When he sees the Necromancer maybe he was looking in a mirror that was showing him his true form. What if he was the one who lead the orcs to the company near trollshaw? Was he really trying to "draw them off"? I think you might be on to something here.

I think Azog will be at bo5a and Bolg will be the bad orc of DolGuldur.


What if everything we saw that involves Radagast was just him tripping from mushrooms and thinking he was seeing all this stuff?? I think I side with Saruman on this now. Laugh


FrogmortonJustice65
Rivendell


May 22 2013, 3:59am

Post #5 of 23 (476 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast = Sauron.

Laugh

 photo cbccab4e-f61e-4be5-aaa1-20e302430c7c.jpg


Slim
Rivendell


May 22 2013, 5:42am

Post #6 of 23 (456 views)
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It finally makes sense! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Perhaps he is really an evil wizard but doesn't always know it because he has a mental illness similar to Gollum? When he sees the Necromancer maybe he was looking in a mirror that was showing him his true form. What if he was the one who lead the orcs to the company near trollshaw? Was he really trying to "draw them off"? I think you might be on to something here.

Now this sounds awesome! Laugh


Cirashala
Grey Havens


May 22 2013, 6:37am

Post #7 of 23 (443 views)
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Voice and mocap [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, I believe Benedict Cumberbatch's mocap and voiceover is for Smaug, since he is playing BOTH Smaug and the Necromancer.

I am curious as to how the mocap will work for a human face to try and capture motions for a NON humanoid face (dragon face). Should be interesting!

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm


lurtz2010
Rohan

May 22 2013, 7:30am

Post #8 of 23 (409 views)
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he might be tripping when hes "good" [In reply to] Can't Post

That's why there are two sides to him. I'm thinking that when he leaves his main home of Dol Guldur and goes to Rhosgobel and he takes mushrooms he becomes good and forgets who he really is, maybe the spiders were his most loved pets just coming to visit him but at the time Radagast didn't know that due to the mushrooms. What if when he goes back to Dol Guldur and the witchking comes out of the stone he wasn't actually in danger at all? What if the witchking was just bowing down to welcome his master home but Radagast in his drug fueled state attacked causing a very confused witchking to flee in panic until Radagast came back to his proper frame of mind.

Did you see how Radagast was acting during the High Fells scene? I think it pretty much confirms your theory.


dik-dik
Lorien


May 22 2013, 9:56am

Post #9 of 23 (360 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
1) Is Radagast the Necromancer? No seriously though didn't he bring an animal back from the dead? and he lives in Mirkwood...could be Sauron who knows?


Lol. No, really, I didn't get the impression that Radagast was practising necromancy. When watching the scene, I thought the hedgehog wasn't really dead but rather that Radagast was doing what Aragorn later did in the Houses of Healing - calling the creature's spirit back from the dark place it had been caught in. (so unless I wish to argue that Aragorn practised necromancy as well... Tongue ) I took a peek at the fan transcript (a handy thing!) to read the Quenya lines Radagast utters, and noticed the description of the darkness seeping away from the animal, an image which I forgot was there; could as well be something like a visual representation of the Black Breath.


In Reply To
2) Like it or not we are all stuck with Azog(hopefully for only a short time left though I'm not optimistic). I'm really worried he will overshadow and take away from Bolg's role the rest of the way including leading the evil force at the BoFA. What do you guys think?


Yes, I am concerned that we are going to have too many main enemies in part 2. Necromancer, Smaug, Azog and Bolg. I would prefer if they only chose one orc enemy. And I cannot think of a fitting end for Azog in part 2 either, unless Beorn crushes him at the very beginning (Azog does come across like cheeky enough to dare mope around Beorn's home).


In Reply To
3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?


I don't care either way, but I understand some may feel cheated if the White Council storm the fortress without as much as a word from or a glimpse of its master. But I believe if such a scene is included, there should be something special about their interaction. I was thinking of the Necromancer's voice carrying like Saruman's voice did to the nazgul in the Unfinished Tales - sounding by some magic as if it comes from a different place, or all places at once. And once the Necromancer is seen, it would feel appropriate to me if he didn't speak (much like the balrog), just did some magic stuff and then fled.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Arannir
Valinor


May 22 2013, 11:40am

Post #10 of 23 (387 views)
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Every true Tolkien purist knows... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... that Radagast is Sauron.

I am looking forward to the scene in which he smokes the birds that try to do their business on him. ;)



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


May 22 2013, 12:50pm

Post #11 of 23 (327 views)
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the bunnies [In reply to] Can't Post

 
the bunnies are the real dark force.

together, they are the necromancer. hiding in plain sight. almost lopping radagast's head off a couple of times during "the excitement of trying to escape."

take a look how one of the necro-rabbits stares down fili when radagast first meets up with the company. it stands on its hind legs, sizing up an enemy. fili does the same. his instincts are spot-on and all the hairs on the back of his neck (which are massive in number, as he is a dwarf) stand on their ends.

imdb reports benedict cumberbatch is voicing the rabbits over the next two films.



cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


dormouse
Half-elven


May 22 2013, 12:58pm

Post #12 of 23 (343 views)
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No, you've all got it wrong..... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's Tauriel. Tauriel is the Necromancer - note the name NecROMANCEr..... Wink


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


May 22 2013, 2:56pm

Post #13 of 23 (292 views)
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fabulous! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
dormouse... +fabulous+!!!

if that's true.... perhaps she can reanimate fili, kili, and thorin, after bofa? silver lining.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


dave_lf
Gondor

May 22 2013, 3:44pm

Post #14 of 23 (259 views)
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I didn't see a bed in his hut [In reply to] Can't Post

I sense a Fight Club style ending in the works.


RosieLass
Valinor


May 22 2013, 3:50pm

Post #15 of 23 (249 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

Good catch! Cool

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 22 2013, 4:44pm

Post #16 of 23 (247 views)
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Radagast's Multiple Personalities [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
.... that Radagast is Sauron.

I am looking forward to the scene in which he smokes the birds that try to do their business on him. ;)



Wizard.

Dark Lord.

Time Lord.

The reason we don't see Ragagast in LotR is because he is busy being Sauron. After the Ring is destroyed, he regenerates into Paul McGann.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 22 2013, 4:47pm)


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 22 2013, 5:11pm

Post #17 of 23 (213 views)
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BAHAHAHA [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
.... that Radagast is Sauron.

I am looking forward to the scene in which he smokes the birds that try to do their business on him. ;)



Wizard.

Dark Lord.

Time Lord.

The reason we don't see Ragagast in LotR is because he is busy being Sauron. After the Ring is destroyed, he regenerates into Paul McGann.


So that's why he wasn't in LOTR! I think I have something here Wink


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 22 2013, 5:24pm

Post #18 of 23 (206 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be here all week.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


May 23 2013, 12:27am

Post #19 of 23 (147 views)
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Answer to # 3 [In reply to] Can't Post

3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?

I think Sauron having a speaking part and an appearance will work out fine, and can still be mysterious, ominous and menacing, if his appearance is fleeting. It's like in the novel Dracula. He's there in the beginning of the book, but by the end he is a menacing presence, until they kill him. No reason why it can't work out with the Necromancer.


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 23 2013, 2:53am

Post #20 of 23 (113 views)
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I really like the thought of that [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?

I think Sauron having a speaking part and an appearance will work out fine, and can still be mysterious, ominous and menacing, if his appearance is fleeting. It's like in the novel Dracula. He's there in the beginning of the book, but by the end he is a menacing presence, until they kill him. No reason why it can't work out with the Necromancer.


To be honest I wouldn't be upset one iota if Sauron got a very bold and upfront showing. All I want is to see/know more about him! If they made him a large presence and even showed him fighting a little against the Counsel with his Nazgul(which would make me die in the theatre of happiness) I would rejoice! I know it would tick off lots of "purists" tho. Sly


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 23 2013, 3:00am

Post #21 of 23 (111 views)
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Actually [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Actually, I believe Benedict Cumberbatch's mocap and voiceover is for Smaug, since he is playing BOTH Smaug and the Necromancer.

I am curious as to how the mocap will work for a human face to try and capture motions for a NON humanoid face (dragon face). Should be interesting!


Mocap and Voice for Necromancer have been confirmed by Cumberbatch in an interview on this site a little while ago.


Yngwulff
Gondor


May 23 2013, 5:50am

Post #22 of 23 (106 views)
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If Rhaddy was the Necromancer ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't he turn the dead hedgehog into a wraith or zombie reanimating that way vs restoring its life.
It makes no sense he's the Necromancer.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Eruwestial37
Rohan

May 23 2013, 6:46am

Post #23 of 23 (117 views)
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Undead Hedgehogs? [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that would be really scary! Crazy

 
 

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