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The Mitch King
Rohan
May 22 2013, 2:20am
Post #1 of 23
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A couple questions for inquiry
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1) Is Radagast the Necromancer? No seriously though didn't he bring an animal back from the dead? and he lives in Mirkwood...could be Sauron who knows?
2) Like it or not we are all stuck with Azog(hopefully for only a short time left though I'm not optimistic). I'm really worried he will overshadow and take away from Bolg's role the rest of the way including leading the evil force at the BoFA. What do you guys think?
3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?
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lurtz2010
Rohan
May 22 2013, 2:39am
Post #2 of 23
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you're probably right about Radagast
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Perhaps he is really an evil wizard but doesn't always know it because he has a mental illness similar to Gollum? When he sees the Necromancer maybe he was looking in a mirror that was showing him his true form. What if he was the one who lead the orcs to the company near trollshaw? Was he really trying to "draw them off"? I think you might be on to something here.
I think Azog will be at bo5a and Bolg will be the bad orc of DolGuldur.
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bungobaggins
Lorien
May 22 2013, 2:39am
Post #3 of 23
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1) There were no witnesses to back up Radagast's story, and Gandalf just took everything he said on faith. So that could be true. 
2) If Azog doesn't die early on in DOS, then introducing Bolg as a secondary villain would complicate things. The casual viewer would become confused. "Who is Bolg?" They haven't even established his relationship to Azog yet, and I have a feeling they won't (just imagine the average viewer wrapping their brains around the idea of orc families  ). But I do think that Azog will survive until the third film. In the second film we'll probably see him and his band of orcs attack the company as they flee from the Elven kingdom in an intense barrel escape sequence that will contain several belief suspending waterfall drops à la Indiana Jones IV. 
3) As much as I would like to see the necromancer and hear him, I think he should remain a mystery. Sauron was terrifying and powerful because we never see him (apart from the prologue), and the characters never see him. I'm afraid it will end up like the end of The Wizard of Oz. Now that they've revealed the wizard, he is not as scary or threatening.
(This post was edited by bungobaggins on May 22 2013, 2:44am)
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Cirashala
Valinor
May 22 2013, 6:37am
Post #7 of 23
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Actually, I believe Benedict Cumberbatch's mocap and voiceover is for Smaug, since he is playing BOTH Smaug and the Necromancer.
I am curious as to how the mocap will work for a human face to try and capture motions for a NON humanoid face (dragon face). Should be interesting!
Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm
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lurtz2010
Rohan
May 22 2013, 7:30am
Post #8 of 23
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he might be tripping when hes "good"
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That's why there are two sides to him. I'm thinking that when he leaves his main home of Dol Guldur and goes to Rhosgobel and he takes mushrooms he becomes good and forgets who he really is, maybe the spiders were his most loved pets just coming to visit him but at the time Radagast didn't know that due to the mushrooms. What if when he goes back to Dol Guldur and the witchking comes out of the stone he wasn't actually in danger at all? What if the witchking was just bowing down to welcome his master home but Radagast in his drug fueled state attacked causing a very confused witchking to flee in panic until Radagast came back to his proper frame of mind.
Did you see how Radagast was acting during the High Fells scene? I think it pretty much confirms your theory.
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dik-dik
Lorien
May 22 2013, 9:56am
Post #9 of 23
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1) Is Radagast the Necromancer? No seriously though didn't he bring an animal back from the dead? and he lives in Mirkwood...could be Sauron who knows?
Lol. No, really, I didn't get the impression that Radagast was practising necromancy. When watching the scene, I thought the hedgehog wasn't really dead but rather that Radagast was doing what Aragorn later did in the Houses of Healing - calling the creature's spirit back from the dark place it had been caught in. (so unless I wish to argue that Aragorn practised necromancy as well... ) I took a peek at the fan transcript (a handy thing!) to read the Quenya lines Radagast utters, and noticed the description of the darkness seeping away from the animal, an image which I forgot was there; could as well be something like a visual representation of the Black Breath.
2) Like it or not we are all stuck with Azog(hopefully for only a short time left though I'm not optimistic). I'm really worried he will overshadow and take away from Bolg's role the rest of the way including leading the evil force at the BoFA. What do you guys think?
Yes, I am concerned that we are going to have too many main enemies in part 2. Necromancer, Smaug, Azog and Bolg. I would prefer if they only chose one orc enemy. And I cannot think of a fitting end for Azog in part 2 either, unless Beorn crushes him at the very beginning (Azog does come across like cheeky enough to dare mope around Beorn's home).
3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?
I don't care either way, but I understand some may feel cheated if the White Council storm the fortress without as much as a word from or a glimpse of its master. But I believe if such a scene is included, there should be something special about their interaction. I was thinking of the Necromancer's voice carrying like Saruman's voice did to the nazgul in the Unfinished Tales - sounding by some magic as if it comes from a different place, or all places at once. And once the Necromancer is seen, it would feel appropriate to me if he didn't speak (much like the balrog), just did some magic stuff and then fled.
"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington
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Arannir
Valinor
May 22 2013, 11:40am
Post #10 of 23
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Every true Tolkien purist knows...
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.... that Radagast is Sauron.
I am looking forward to the scene in which he smokes the birds that try to do their business on him. ;)
“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien
Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.
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Maciliel
Valinor
May 22 2013, 12:50pm
Post #11 of 23
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the bunnies are the real dark force.
together, they are the necromancer. hiding in plain sight. almost lopping radagast's head off a couple of times during "the excitement of trying to escape."
take a look how one of the necro-rabbits stares down fili when radagast first meets up with the company. it stands on its hind legs, sizing up an enemy. fili does the same. his instincts are spot-on and all the hairs on the back of his neck (which are massive in number, as he is a dwarf) stand on their ends.
imdb reports benedict cumberbatch is voicing the rabbits over the next two films.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 22 2013, 12:58pm
Post #12 of 23
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No, you've all got it wrong.....
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It's Tauriel. Tauriel is the Necromancer - note the name NecROMANCEr.....
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Maciliel
Valinor
May 22 2013, 2:56pm
Post #13 of 23
(462 views)
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dormouse... +fabulous+!!!
if that's true.... perhaps she can reanimate fili, kili, and thorin, after bofa? silver lining.
cheers --
.
aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."
this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo
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dave_lf
Gondor
May 22 2013, 3:44pm
Post #14 of 23
(429 views)
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I sense a Fight Club style ending in the works.
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RosieLass
Valinor
May 22 2013, 3:50pm
Post #15 of 23
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Good catch! 
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 22 2013, 4:44pm
Post #16 of 23
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Radagast's Multiple Personalities
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.... that Radagast is Sauron.
I am looking forward to the scene in which he smokes the birds that try to do their business on him. ;)
Wizard.
Dark Lord.
Time Lord.
The reason we don't see Ragagast in LotR is because he is busy being Sauron. After the Ring is destroyed, he regenerates into Paul McGann.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 22 2013, 4:47pm)
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The Mitch King
Rohan
May 22 2013, 5:11pm
Post #17 of 23
(383 views)
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.... that Radagast is Sauron.
I am looking forward to the scene in which he smokes the birds that try to do their business on him. ;) Wizard. Dark Lord. Time Lord. The reason we don't see Ragagast in LotR is because he is busy being Sauron. After the Ring is destroyed, he regenerates into Paul McGann.
So that's why he wasn't in LOTR! I think I have something here
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 22 2013, 5:24pm
Post #18 of 23
(376 views)
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I'll be here all week.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Ziggy Stardust
Gondor
May 23 2013, 12:27am
Post #19 of 23
(317 views)
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3) Sauron never had too many vocal parts in the books but supposedly Cumberbatch is doing mocap and voice. In your opinions, is it a good thing that we will see Sauron as a more vocal and interactive character (I'm assuming he will have a decent sized role) or should he be left as mysterious and ominous?
I think Sauron having a speaking part and an appearance will work out fine, and can still be mysterious, ominous and menacing, if his appearance is fleeting. It's like in the novel Dracula. He's there in the beginning of the book, but by the end he is a menacing presence, until they kill him. No reason why it can't work out with the Necromancer.
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The Mitch King
Rohan
May 23 2013, 3:00am
Post #21 of 23
(281 views)
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Actually, I believe Benedict Cumberbatch's mocap and voiceover is for Smaug, since he is playing BOTH Smaug and the Necromancer.
I am curious as to how the mocap will work for a human face to try and capture motions for a NON humanoid face (dragon face). Should be interesting!
Mocap and Voice for Necromancer have been confirmed by Cumberbatch in an interview on this site a little while ago.
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Yngwulff
Gondor
May 23 2013, 5:50am
Post #22 of 23
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If Rhaddy was the Necromancer ...
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Wouldn't he turn the dead hedgehog into a wraith or zombie reanimating that way vs restoring its life.
It makes no sense he's the Necromancer.
Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!
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Eruwestial37
Rohan
May 23 2013, 6:46am
Post #23 of 23
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Now that would be really scary! 
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