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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
orc differences from the hobbit and lotr.

boldog
Rohan


May 19 2013, 10:00am

Post #1 of 8 (1145 views)
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orc differences from the hobbit and lotr. Can't Post

I just noticed the other day after watching ROTK. The orcs from Mordor, Morgul, and Cirith Ungol, all are very badly deformed, especially the mordor orcs. Deformed as in injuries, or mutilations that wernt there all the time! Could it be that Jackson gave them this look to show them as slaves of Sauron? that is how I always pictured them from reading the books. other orc types, in the trilogy like uruk hai, and moria orcs, aren't deformed by injury (only really ugly, as orcs are) and in the hobbit, they also seem to be well off. Azog, Fimbul, and other ones around him, just look like they are natural. Bolg however is deformed with the stuff on his face. he works in dol guldur, the fortress of sauron, so this might have a connection to the point I made above?
nothing major but what do you think?
are the orcs of Sauron, worse off of all the orcs?

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell


May 19 2013, 10:27am

Post #2 of 8 (715 views)
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Bolg [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Bolg is deformed because of what Dwalin did to him at Azanulbizar. He doesn't look half as bad in the pictures of him before that (he still looks pretty terrible of course).

Other than that think your theory is pretty accurate. I wonder if the orcs prefer life with or without Sauron around?

"Durin's Heir you may be, but even with one eye you should see clearer. If this is victory, then our hands are too small to hold it. We will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Beyond the shadow of the gate it waits for you still: Durin’s Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin’s Folk walk again in Moria.”


Kimtc
Rohan


May 20 2013, 12:14am

Post #3 of 8 (421 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have seen AUJ a gazillion times and kept looking for Bolg, but never quite figured it out (possibly because I kept looking at Thorin but NOT my fault). This helps me immensely.

This is a good theory. The idea of orcs as corrupted to begin with, further corrupted by Sauron, definitely explains the appearance difference. I do think the goblins of LOTR were scarier than these ones (I'm assuming those were goblins in Moria, but only because Legolas said so).


In Reply To
I think Bolg is deformed because of what Dwalin did to him at Azanulbizar. He doesn't look half as bad in the pictures of him before that (he still looks pretty terrible of course).

Other than that think your theory is pretty accurate. I wonder if the orcs prefer life with or without Sauron around?



Yngwulff
Gondor


May 20 2013, 2:50am

Post #4 of 8 (417 views)
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Different tribes [In reply to] Can't Post

The orcs at Cirith Ungol in ROTK were uruks from Mordor and a detachment from Minas Morgul.
God only knows how many different tribes of goblins there were in the Misty Mountains, Moria (as seen in FOTR), and as we will hopefully se soon from Mount Gundabad and Dol Guldur. Not to mention the Uruk hai and orcs from isengard in TTT ...

All were slightly different


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

(This post was edited by Yngwulff on May 20 2013, 2:52am)


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 20 2013, 2:56am

Post #5 of 8 (418 views)
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There were at least three in the gang that took Merry and Pippin. [In reply to] Can't Post

Some Moria orcs, a group sent directly from Mordor, and Saruman's Uruk Hai. The movie clearly distinguished at least the Uruk Hai from the others. The one who followed M&P into the forest was one of the Moria/Mordor orcs. I can easily imaging differing tribes, with different histories and degrees/methods of corruption.








Yngwulff
Gondor


May 20 2013, 3:00am

Post #6 of 8 (401 views)
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Haven't read in a while [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think you are right there were 3 groups, and the non-Uruk hai were whining about the forced march as they were not able to handle the daylight as well as the Uruk hai


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 20 2013, 7:16am

Post #7 of 8 (396 views)
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Apparently... [In reply to] Can't Post

From III:3 The Uruk=Hai:


Quote
Apparently the members of two or three quite different tribes were present, and they could not understand one another’s orc-speech.

...

We are the fighting Uruk-hai! We slew the great warrior. We took the prisoners. We are the servants of Saruman the Wise, the White Hand: the Hand that gives us man’s-flesh to eat. We came out of Isengard, and led you here, and we shall lead you back by the way we choose. I am Uglúk. I have spoken.’

...

The prisoners are NOT to be searched or plundered: those are my orders.’ ‘And mine too,’ said the deep voice. ‘Alive and as captured; The prisoners are NOT to be searched or plundered: those are my orders.’

‘And mine too,’ said the deep voice. ‘Alive and as captured; no spoiling. That’s my orders.’

‘Not our orders!’ said one of the earlier voices. ‘We have come
all the way from the Mines to kill, and avenge our folk. I wish to kill, and then go back north.’

...

‘I wonder how they would like it in Lugbúrz. They might think that Uglúk’s shoulders needed relieving of a swollen head. They might ask where his strange ideas came from. Did they come from Saruman, perhaps? Who does he think he is, setting up on his own with his filthy white badges? They might agree with me, with Grishnákh their trusted messenger; and I Grishnákh say this: Saruman is a fool. and a dirty treacherous fool. But the Great Eye is on him.









(This post was edited by Elizabeth on May 20 2013, 7:16am)


Bauglir100
Bree

May 20 2013, 2:32pm

Post #8 of 8 (366 views)
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Well, there may be an explanation for it... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Orcs have very diverse breeds, hence why they look so different.

The Orcs of Mordor were bred by Sauron during the Second Age. The harsh environment that covers most of that region deformed the local population.

The Orcs of the Misty Mountains are in fact remnants of Melkor's defunct armies from the First Age, having fled there when Melkor was taken away to Valinor in chains by the Host of the Valar after the War of Wrath. The Orcs of Moria and the Goblins residing in Goblin-town are among the more primitive and/or older splinter groups of these Orcs, with the Gundabad Orcs being the bigger, stronger, and more elite groups mentioned in the novel, likely even resembling what all the Orcs/Goblins originally looked like during the War of the Jewels.

I have reason to believe that the Great Goblin is an ancient Orc, and that Orcs tend to bloat and become even taller as they grow old. I also believe that he's able to recognize Orcrist and Glamdring by both appearance and name because he's a veteran of the Goblin-wars of the First Age.

 
 

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