Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"I'm a good carry bum!" and other Random Ro Thoughts
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Roheryn
Grey Havens

May 17 2013, 11:36am

Post #1 of 38 (1530 views)
Shortcut
"I'm a good carry bum!" and other Random Ro Thoughts Can't Post

Hobbits smell of cozy fires, hay fields, and baking; Dwarves just smell…well, hairy and unwashed; Elves of course smell of strawberry bubble bath. But what does a wizard smell like?

Isn’t the “two-fingered salute” (index and middle fingers in a “V”) a rude gesture in some places? I seem to remember that one getting us into trouble on a bus in Edinburgh once…Bilbo does that gesture to Gandalf under pretence of tapping his pipe, after Gandalf’s line “And where else should I be?”

Old Bilbo tells Frodo he came home with only one chest of treasure – “and it still smells of troll.” So he doesn’t end up with any Dwarven treasure at all when he departs for home after the Bo5A? Interesting. Why not?

Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.

Who else thinks Thorin had been repeatedly ringing the doorbell while “Blunt the Knives” was going on, and was so teed off that no one had heard him that he resorted to that thundering knock?

Bifur’s line in Bag End has always sounded to me like “I’m a -- good carry bum!”

Smoke and sparks up the chimney trailing into a night sky: full of mystery and potential adventures. Smoke from a candle by morning light: the sparks have fizzled, the flame is out. The potential is extinguished.

What do Dwarves normally blow their noses on?

Giant Eagles have a wing-span of something like 30 feet. Eagles normally capture and eat prey that’s fairly large relative to their body size. So what in Middle-earth do Giant Eagles eat? Historically, I mean. Before the introduction of domestic livestock. They must have co-evolved with some giant prey.

The quickest way to kill a spider (short of squashing it, of course) is to get it wet. Couldn’t Radagast just dump a bucket of water on them? And, since the Wicked Witch of the West similarly melted when water was dumped on her, she must be part spider. Just a thought.

After the Company slides down the rock into the cave, escaping the orcs and wargs, who else wants to hear Thorin sneer at Gandalf: “What a wonderful smell you’ve discovered!”? Or maybe that’s a better line for the troll cave.

Balin must send letters in GIANT envelopes. The-sword-not-yet-named-Sting is a bit overkill as a letter opener for a normal-sized letter.



Riven Delve
Grey Havens


May 17 2013, 12:24pm

Post #2 of 38 (624 views)
Shortcut
Random replies [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hobbits smell of cozy fires, hay fields, and baking; Dwarves just smell…well, hairy and unwashed; Elves of course smell of strawberry bubble bath. But what does a wizard smell like?


I think (??) we mused on this before somewhere, and I believe the consensus was a predomination of a smoky smell. Wink Especially Gandalf!



In Reply To
Old Bilbo tells Frodo he came home with only one chest of treasure – “and it still smells of troll.” So he doesn’t end up with any Dwarven treasure at all when he departs for home after the Bo5A? Interesting. Why not?


Good question! In the book, Dain gives him a couple chests, one of gold and one of silver, and then he brings home the troll hoard gold as well--in bags, not a chest--at Gandalf's insistence. So perhaps Dain doesn't give him any treasure in the movie, and his only treasure is the movie troll chest? He does end up with the mithril shirt, though, apparently. That is a kingly gift in itself, I believe. Cool



In Reply To
Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.


It must be his own sword rather than Orcrist, since he doesn't get that until later. Smile He and Dwalin both have a wariness about them as they meet Bilbo that speaks of seasoned warriors.




In Reply To
Who else thinks Thorin had been repeatedly ringing the doorbell while “Blunt the Knives” was going on, and was so teed off that no one had heard him that he resorted to that thundering knock?


I never thought of that! Quite possible! But I prefer to believe Thorin thinks himself above ringing that tingly little bell. A thundering knock is much more majestic. Wink



In Reply To
Bifur’s line in Bag End has always sounded to me like “I’m a -- good carry bum!”


I won't comment on Bifur's bum. Angelic



In Reply To

Smoke and sparks up the chimney trailing into a night sky: full of mystery and potential adventures. Smoke from a candle by morning light: the sparks have fizzled, the flame is out. The potential is extinguished.


Not the potential, I hope...perhaps just the enthusiasm!




In Reply To
What do Dwarves normally blow their noses on?


I don't think I want to go there. Tongue



In Reply To

Giant Eagles have a wing-span of something like 30 feet. Eagles normally capture and eat prey that’s fairly large relative to their body size. So what in Middle-earth do Giant Eagles eat? Historically, I mean. Before the introduction of domestic livestock. They must have co-evolved with some giant prey.


They ate megaloceroses, of course! (Elf not included.)



In Reply To
The quickest way to kill a spider (short of squashing it, of course) is to get it wet.


Someone tell the dwarves before they get to Mirkwood!! Tongue



In Reply To
After the Company slides down the rock into the cave, escaping the orcs and wargs, who else wants to hear Thorin sneer at Gandalf: “What a wonderful smell you’ve discovered!”? Or maybe that’s a better line for the troll cave.


Me, me! Actually I keep wondering if they leave that dead orc there in the secret entrance to rot...Unsure



In Reply To
Balin must send letters in GIANT envelopes. The-sword-not-yet-named-Sting is a bit overkill as a letter opener for a normal-sized letter.


Maybe to Balin the elves seem enormous. And perhaps he's never seen an elven letter! I personally don't imagine them using envelopes: just folded and sealed-with-wax documents.

Thanks, Ro! I always enjoy reading your thoughts!







"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment



(This post was edited by Riven Delve on May 17 2013, 12:25pm)


ShireHorse
Rohan

May 17 2013, 4:47pm

Post #3 of 38 (493 views)
Shortcut
Why did the "V" sign get a mention? [In reply to] Can't Post

I noticed Bifur banging his bicep in Bag End which I thought was a rude salute in some countries.

The "V" sign has two meanings: if it's made palm outwards then it is the V for Victory sign beloved of Winston Churchill. But, if it is made palm inwards and involves an upward jerk then its meaning is very old and goes back to the 14th century and the 100 Years' War between England and France: if the French captured an English archer, they would often not kill him but remove his two bowstring fingers so that he could no longer draw a longbow. If the two armies were facing each other, the English would wave their fingers at the French to taunt them and to demonstrate that they were still fully operational.

Don't use it in the UK unless you're quite confident that you're bigger than the other bloke.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 17 2013, 5:08pm

Post #4 of 38 (501 views)
Shortcut
The bow stuff ... that's a complete myth [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it's only wikipedia, but it does a reasonable job of highlighting the origins of the V sign. Also, the middle finger is considered a lot ruder than the V sign.

As for Bifur's arm signal, that is his way of saying Thorin (shield etc...).


Elwen
Lorien


May 17 2013, 5:26pm

Post #5 of 38 (459 views)
Shortcut
Speaking of random.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's what your random thoughts made me think:

Hobbits smell of cozy fires, hay fields, and baking; Dwarves just smell…well, hairy and unwashed; Elves of course smell of strawberry bubble bath. But what does a wizard smell like? Pipeweed


Isn’t the “two-fingered salute” (index and middle fingers in a “V”) a rude gesture in some places? I seem to remember that one getting us into trouble on a bus in Edinburgh once…Bilbo does that gesture to Gandalf under pretence of tapping his pipe, after Gandalf’s line “And where else should I be?” Never noticed that...need to watch again.

Old Bilbo tells Frodo he came home with only one chest of treasure – “and it still smells of troll.” So he doesn’t end up with any Dwarven treasure at all when he departs for home after the Bo5A? Interesting. Why not? Well rumor has it there was one heck of a poker game in Imladris....

Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared. This would be especially true if he heard the ruckus of dish and bowl throwing as he walked up the path.

Who else thinks Thorin had been repeatedly ringing the doorbell while “Blunt the Knives” was going on, and was so teed off that no one had heard him that he resorted to that thundering knock? Never thought that, but it's a plausible and hilarious possibility.

Bifur’s line in Bag End has always sounded to me like “I’m a -- good carry bum!” You know what random line took me to the subtitles and was a bit strange to me? "
I’ll give him a taste of dwarfish iron right up his jacksie." Huh?

What do Dwarves normally blow their noses on? *doing best Aragorn impression while whispering* It's the beards.

Balin must send letters in GIANT envelopes. The-sword-not-yet-named-Sting is a bit overkill as a letter opener for a normal-sized letter. Well if that contract is any indication, I'd say you're on the right track with that theory.


Before kids, exercising with LOTR meant listening to the soundtrack while I ran.

After kids, exercising with LOTR means having an all out dance party with the little ones to the "Break the Dam Release the River" disco mix form the Lego game.


Brethil
Half-elven


May 17 2013, 6:43pm

Post #6 of 38 (471 views)
Shortcut
Thoughts back, with my daily dose of inappropriateness. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Hobbits smell of cozy fires, hay fields, and baking; Dwarves just smell…well, hairy and unwashed; Elves of course smell of strawberry bubble bath. But what does a wizard smell like? Valinor (citrus-incense) and that sort of classy old-drawing room tobacco smell. Unless you are Radagast and then I think you smell like a bunny hutch on a ripe summer day.

Who else thinks Thorin had been repeatedly ringing the doorbell while “Blunt the Knives” was going on, and was so teed off that no one had heard him that he resorted to that thundering knock? hahahahhaa! Especially since he was already cheesed off having knocked on several other Hobbit doors and been greeted as the exterminator or told "we don't want any buttons, thank you," and had the door slammed in his face.
Bifur’s line in Bag End has always sounded to me like “I’m a -- good carry bum!” *Exactly* what it sounds like. And while we are on the topic of "what stuff sounds like," two inappropriate points:1. It sounds to me like when Gandalf is talking to Thorin after the Trollshaw, he seems to say "He had the nads to play for time. None of the rest of you thought of that." Wow - Go Bilbo! High praise there!2. And heaven help me in the old farmer's house it sounds like Thorin says "desecrate our sacred holes..." which Elaen informs me is a Yorkshire accent thing but I HATE hearing it! I yell "halls" back at the TV.

What do Dwarves normally blow their noses on? The Dwarf in front of them?

After the Company slides down the rock into the cave, escaping the orcs and wargs, who else wants to hear Thorin sneer at Gandalf: “What a wonderful smell you’ve discovered!”? Or maybe that’s a better line for the troll cave. Nice crossover line there Ro!!!!!! Cool


Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 17 2013, 7:19pm

Post #7 of 38 (445 views)
Shortcut
Nope, nope, nope. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The quickest way to kill a spider (short of squashing it, of course) is to get it wet. Couldn’t Radagast just dump a bucket of water on them?


I've seen too many spiders swim! Add a little dish detergent to that water to be sure they're done for. ;)

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on May 17 2013, 7:21pm)


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 17 2013, 7:22pm

Post #8 of 38 (437 views)
Shortcut
Hmmm. [In reply to] Can't Post

Old Bilbo tells Frodo he came home with only one chest of treasure – “and it still smells of troll.” So he doesn’t end up with any Dwarven treasure at all when he departs for home after the Bo5A? Interesting. Why not?

The chest may be from Trollshaw, but it is full of treasure, some of which may have come from the Dwarves.

Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.

Have you ever worn a big sword? Its hilt is the most comfortable place to put your hand, since it's occupying the part of your side where that hand would normally rest.

What do Dwarves normally blow their noses on?

Silly, Dwarves don't catch colds.

Giant Eagles have a wing-span of something like 30 feet. Eagles normally capture and eat prey that’s fairly large relative to their body size. So what in Middle-earth do Giant Eagles eat? Historically, I mean. Before the introduction of domestic livestock. They must have co-evolved with some giant prey.

One word: wargs.

The quickest way to kill a spider (short of squashing it, of course) is to get it wet. Couldn’t Radagast just dump a bucket of water on them? And, since the Wicked Witch of the West similarly melted when water was dumped on her, she must be part spider. Just a thought.

Water is precious when you have to lug it up from the river bucket by bucket. Squashing spiders is the preferred method.

Balin must send letters in GIANT envelopes. The-sword-not-yet-named-Sting is a bit overkill as a letter opener for a normal-sized letter.

Balin knows it was an Elven letter-opener. Elves are particularly fond of sending over-sized greeting cards, with elaborate designs and long poems inside.








Starling
Half-elven


May 17 2013, 9:25pm

Post #9 of 38 (421 views)
Shortcut
I had no idea that the offensive V sign [In reply to] Can't Post

was restricted to only a few countries. It is definitely considered very rude here in NZ. When I was growing up, it was the only rude gesture we really had. Giving someone 'the fingers' was very bad indeed.
The middle finger on its own being used as an insult started to become common by the time I was in my late teens and early 20's. My theory about that is that NZ's outward cultural reference was more towards the UK until the late 80's. (When I was growing up it was not uncommon for a lot of people to refer to the UK as 'home'.)
Somewhere in the 80's, people began looking more towards American popular culture, and then the one-fingered insult became common. Children now use both gestures, but I think if I asked them, they would say that the one-fingered gesture is ruder and more offensive than the two-fingered gesture. Both versions are described as 'the fingers'. You could probably pick the age of a New Zealander by which version they are most likely to use!


Roheryn
Grey Havens

May 17 2013, 9:36pm

Post #10 of 38 (415 views)
Shortcut
Random reply replies [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


In Reply To
Old Bilbo tells Frodo he came home with only one chest of treasure – “and it still smells of troll.” So he doesn’t end up with any Dwarven treasure at all when he departs for home after the Bo5A? Interesting. Why not?


Good question! In the book, Dain gives him a couple chests, one of gold and one of silver, and then he brings home the troll hoard gold as well--in bags, not a chest--at Gandalf's insistence. So perhaps Dain doesn't give him any treasure in the movie, and his only treasure is the movie troll chest? He does end up with the mithril shirt, though, apparently. That is a kingly gift in itself, I believe. Cool




Yes, I took that line to suggest Dain doesn't give Bilbo any treasure in the movie. Or maybe Bilbo just refuses all of what Dain offers, rather than accepting only the two chests as in the book? Curious as to the potentially altered motivations of Dain and Bilbo there.


In Reply To


In Reply To
Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.


It must be his own sword rather than Orcrist, since he doesn't get that until later. Smile He and Dwalin both have a wariness about them as they meet Bilbo that speaks of seasoned warriors.



Oh, yes of course; that's what I get for proofing what I've written at midnight. I meant "his sword" not Orcrist. Isn't his sword supposed to be named Deathless (in the movie-verse)?


In Reply To


In Reply To
Bifur’s line in Bag End has always sounded to me like “I’m a -- good carry bum!”


I won't comment on Bifur's bum. Angelic


Oh come on...you know you want to. Wink
Thanks, Ro! I always enjoy reading your thoughts! Thanks and you're welcome! They're usually a product of too little sleep...









RosieLass
Valinor


May 17 2013, 9:50pm

Post #11 of 38 (391 views)
Shortcut
I knew it! [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew it was the Elves who invented those obnoxious greeting cards that sing when you open them!!

Tra la la lally, down in the Valley! Ha ha!

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Barrow-Wight
Rohan


May 17 2013, 11:09pm

Post #12 of 38 (379 views)
Shortcut
Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Who else thinks Thorin had been repeatedly ringing the doorbell while “Blunt the Knives” was going on, and was so teed off that no one had heard him that he resorted to that thundering knock?



now that you mention it. I'm almost certain he was lol



Roheryn
Grey Havens

May 17 2013, 11:37pm

Post #13 of 38 (378 views)
Shortcut
As far as I know, [In reply to] Can't Post

the offensive V-sign is pretty much unknown to Americans.

Hence, on my first trip to Edinburgh with a fellow American, we got on one of the city buses and were completely flummoxed by the bus driver's Scottish accent. My friend figured he was flummoxed by us too, so she proceeded to explain very slowly that we needed TWO tickets -- and she held up two fingers emphatically to illustrate her point. She got a sharp elbow in the ribs from another friend, who knew about such things, once we sat down!

Anyways, I clearly haven't been hanging out with the right crowd around here, as I'm pretty sure I haven't seen anyone using the two-finger salute.


Starling
Half-elven


May 17 2013, 11:49pm

Post #14 of 38 (361 views)
Shortcut
I make an effort to use it regularly, [In reply to] Can't Post

in the interests of keeping our cultural heritage alive.
I am very happy to give you and your family lessons, should they be required.


Nira
Lorien


May 17 2013, 11:54pm

Post #15 of 38 (352 views)
Shortcut
haha! I love the random thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Old Bilbo tells Frodo he came home with only one chest of treasure – “and it still smells of troll.” So he doesn’t end up with any Dwarven treasure at all when he departs for home after the Bo5A? Interesting. Why not?
His memory is going or the other chests were of silver and other non-gold treasures


Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.
He shouldn't have Orcrist at this point in the story, but it would make for an interesting back story if he did.

Who else thinks Thorin had been repeatedly ringing the doorbell while “Blunt the Knives” was going on, and was so teed off that no one had heard him that he resorted to that thundering knock?
That's such a great thought

Giant Eagles have a wing-span of something like 30 feet. Eagles normally capture and eat prey that’s fairly large relative to their body size. So what in Middle-earth do Giant Eagles eat? Historically, I mean. Before the introduction of domestic livestock. They must have co-evolved with some giant prey.
oliphants?

Balin must send letters in GIANT envelopes. The-sword-not-yet-named-Sting is a bit overkill as a letter opener for a normal-sized letter.
I hope he wasn't using hyperbole becuase giant dwarf envelopes would be funny

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise


Roheryn
Grey Havens

May 17 2013, 11:57pm

Post #16 of 38 (356 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, just what I need... [In reply to] Can't Post

you giving all three kids lessons in cultural heritage. Tongue "But Starling said it meant "Thank you!'"


Starling
Half-elven


May 18 2013, 12:00am

Post #17 of 38 (352 views)
Shortcut
That's what you get [In reply to] Can't Post

for trying to be a helpful citizen.Tongue
Don't say I didn't try to help. Sly


RosieLass
Valinor


May 18 2013, 12:06am

Post #18 of 38 (354 views)
Shortcut
The only reason I know it... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is from watching "Are You Being Served?"

Crazy

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


DeadRabbits
Lorien


May 18 2013, 12:52am

Post #19 of 38 (376 views)
Shortcut
Thorin and Orcrist [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.

Well, I know I'll come off as a nitpicker, but Thorin didn't get hold of Orcrist until he found it in the Trollshaws... Wink


Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Roheryn
Grey Havens

May 18 2013, 2:28am

Post #20 of 38 (344 views)
Shortcut
Yes, yes, that's why these are Ro-thoughts. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
Thorin’s got his hand on the hilt of Orcrist when he enters Bag End. Just in case he finds foes not friends on the other side of the door? A good warrior is always prepared.

Well, I know I'll come off as a nitpicker, but Thorin didn't get hold of Orcrist until he found it in the Trollshaws... Wink



Random, and occasionally rather fuzzy. That's what I get for posting these at midnight. Tongue I MEANT "his sword" not "Orcrist", of course.


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


May 18 2013, 11:30am

Post #21 of 38 (316 views)
Shortcut
Oh, good! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"He had the nads to play for time. None of the rest of you thought of that." Wow - Go Bilbo! High praise there!



Bilbo can play croquet! Angelic


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment



Riven Delve
Grey Havens


May 18 2013, 11:35am

Post #22 of 38 (288 views)
Shortcut
Random reply reply reply [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Isn't his sword supposed to be named Deathless (in the movie-verse)?



Yes--perhaps named after Thorin's nine-greats grandfather? (I had to look up how many "greats." Crazy)


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment



(This post was edited by Riven Delve on May 18 2013, 11:35am)


The Grey Elf
Gondor


May 18 2013, 12:10pm

Post #23 of 38 (277 views)
Shortcut
RD, thanks for my first big laugh of the day. High 5! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


May 18 2013, 12:23pm

Post #24 of 38 (272 views)
Shortcut
*high-five* ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment



Brethil
Half-elven


May 18 2013, 1:30pm

Post #25 of 38 (287 views)
Shortcut
Hahahaaa! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
"He had the nads to play for time. None of the rest of you thought of that." Wow - Go Bilbo! High praise there!

Bilbo can play croquet! Angelic




RivenDelve for the point!!!! That's great!!!! (Now I bet YOU will start hearing it that way too!) Cool

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.