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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
'The Eye' on the next Hobbit Films?
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lembas_muncher
The Shire

May 17 2013, 7:12pm

Post #1 of 30 (1557 views)
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'The Eye' on the next Hobbit Films? Can't Post

Hmm, I was thinking about this lately and been wondering if this is plausible enough to be included as a scene.. I'm particulary excited to see how PJ plays out the Battle of Dol Goldur, the Necromancer himself will speak! ...and possibly exchanging dialogues with the Council before battling? (really looking forward to this since we never get to see Sauron kick ass in LOTR, well he did on the prologue but i want more of him fleshed out as a character :)..Now, he will sure be defeated in ways which are yet unknown to us, and we know he will flee the fortress in wraith/shadow form maybe? (again excited for PJ's take on this)..Now, my question is, will it still be effective if PJ includes a scene where we see the defeated Necromancer taking flight towards Barad-dur, and then we see it's interior, the Necromancer reshaping again to a more Sauron-like figure (but not yet in full physical form), he then heats up, becomes a great ball of fire and then jolts up to the top of the tower, and then we see how 'the Eye' ignites for the first time, wreathed in its full-flame glory. Wow, apologies for this absurdity, I know the timelines will be messed up haha :)..but on a serious note, is it plausible if we see this scene at the end credit of TABA, and then Gollum sees the flaming Eye from afar, and then a panning wide shot of him treading towards Barad-dur.


(This post was edited by lembas_muncher on May 17 2013, 7:14pm)


elevorn
Lorien


May 17 2013, 7:17pm

Post #2 of 30 (674 views)
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maybe..but not quite [In reply to] Can't Post

The sixty year gap seems to be a necessary thing for there to be more power growing in Mordor.

In my opinion I would rather see the black armored Sauron sitting on a throne of some kind in Barad Dur holding a flaming eye in the palm of his hand then slow pan to the top of the tower and then a bright flash and credits roll. You never see the top of the tower as lit by the eye, just a hint that its coming.



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
Posted newly, A short story draft, "The Last Bastion"


lembas_muncher
The Shire

May 17 2013, 7:24pm

Post #3 of 30 (611 views)
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Nice.. [In reply to] Can't Post

That would indeed be a great tease, but I think he cannot yet wear his full armor since he cannot yet take physical form, 'Dementor'-like features maybe? Oh well, here's hoping for a Sauron hint at the end. :)


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 17 2013, 7:59pm

Post #4 of 30 (609 views)
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No Eye, please! [In reply to] Can't Post

The whole point is that Sauron's power was quite diminished at this time, and it took 60 years to become more powerful. Also, I really hate too much foreshadowing. TH films need their own identity.








elevorn
Lorien


May 17 2013, 8:02pm

Post #5 of 30 (595 views)
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why would they need their own identity? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just curious about that statement. From the standpoint that its the same writers, the same director, and some of the same actors, don't they already show a bridge and share an identity with LOTR.



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com
Posted newly, A short story draft, "The Last Bastion"


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 17 2013, 8:45pm

Post #6 of 30 (564 views)
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I'd love anything Sauron related! [In reply to] Can't Post

We hardly got to really know him as a character in the LOTR in my opinion. I always assumed the giant eye wasn't Sauron himself but what are you gunna do eh?


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 17 2013, 10:32pm

Post #7 of 30 (536 views)
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An odd impression of Sauron [In reply to] Can't Post

The way I always imagined Sauron, well before he transformed into what he was in LOTR, was as a kind of fallen angel (not a Christian type of angel with wings, etc, but a very beautiful being with a seductive voice). I don't know why I have that impression in my imagination long time since I've reread any of the Tolkien books.


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

May 17 2013, 11:20pm

Post #8 of 30 (502 views)
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a hunch [In reply to] Can't Post

Though, I also think that as the Hobbit has many of the same filmmakers and characters from
the Lord of the Rings, they're still expedient to the Hobbit narrative.
An audience, whether steeped in lore or not, knows an imposter film when it sees one.


(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on May 17 2013, 11:22pm)


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 17 2013, 11:48pm

Post #9 of 30 (512 views)
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That's the mistake too many sequels and prequels take. [In reply to] Can't Post

They get all hung up on being clones of each other, rather than concentrating on telling a unique story. The audience gets the relationship, they don't have to be beaten over the head with cross-references.

It should be possible for each series to be enjoyed for its own sake. After all, you enjoyed LotR without having seen The Hobbit, yes? And many people will enjoy seeing TH without having seen LotR. The fact that a few characters and the general ambiance of Middle Earth appear in both is quite sufficient, without further embellishments.








Elizabeth
Valinor


May 17 2013, 11:51pm

Post #10 of 30 (509 views)
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That's actually fairly accurate. [In reply to] Can't Post

In the Second Age he was quite beautiful and beguiling, even though he was still inherently evil. But Tolkien never really developed him much as a character in any of his writings, so I don't think the movies need to. He remains a shadowy, faceless enemy.








lembas_muncher
The Shire

May 18 2013, 2:09am

Post #11 of 30 (445 views)
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hmm.. [In reply to] Can't Post

well, indeed..that's why I'm ecstatic to whatever PJ has in store for any Sauron scene if ever he shoots one. I think he followed the book spirit-wise by retaining him as an enigmatic mysterious enemy in LOTR, even scrapping the Aragorn-Sauron scene in ROTK. But it would have been nice to see flashbacks of him during the Second Age, showing in detail how he turned to be a great force of evil, just wishful thinking for his own standalone movie. Wink


lembas_muncher
The Shire

May 18 2013, 2:16am

Post #12 of 30 (447 views)
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Yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

Indeed, wanted more of him during the prologue, sad that they scrapped out the Annatar concept, was it ever shot?


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 18 2013, 2:39am

Post #13 of 30 (436 views)
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Agree with BOTH these statements [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"They get all hung up on being clones of each other, rather than concentrating on telling a unique story. The audience gets the relationship, they don't have to be beaten over the head with cross-references.

It should be possible for each series to be enjoyed for its own sake. After all, you enjoyed LotR without having seen The Hobbit, yes? And many people will enjoy seeing TH without having seen LotR. The fact that a few characters and the general ambiance of Middle Earth appear in both is quite sufficient, without further embellishments."

"In the Second Age he was quite beautiful and beguiling, even though he was still inherently evil. But Tolkien never really developed him much as a character in any of his writings, so I don't think the movies need to. He remains a shadowy, faceless enemy."

I totally agree with both those statements. Its sad IMO that the film makers couldn't see things the same way and let the films breath a bit and let peoples imagination fill in what gaps might need filling


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 18 2013, 7:48am

Post #14 of 30 (396 views)
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It was shot, but not finished. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it was a cool concept, but I'm very glad they didn't use it. That era is too far distant, and not relevant to the story of LotR. It's even less relevant to TH, where he's even more shadowy. We aren't even supposed to know he's Sauron in TH, we're supposed to assume he's utterly vanquished.








micha84
Rivendell

May 18 2013, 8:30am

Post #15 of 30 (408 views)
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A better explanation of the Eye [In reply to] Can't Post

The battle of Dol Guldur could be used to show Sauron and his type of magic, obviously. He's good at that stuff, even in diminshed form, I suppose. After all, the ring still exists and his power is tied to the ring etc. etc.

So what kind of tricks does he display? Deceptions of some kind, I'm sure. He'll try to intimidate his foes. So what if one of the things he does, is he creates the illusion of a vast flaming thing, which might be an eye or something else. It could be something brief. Just enough so that our perception of the Eye in PJ's LOTR films gets twisted a bit: "oh they Eye is not actually Sauron, he's in the tower somewhere and the eye is one of his tricks to intimidate his subjects and also a device to amplify the Palantir..."

That would be sooo ideal...


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 18 2013, 10:13am

Post #16 of 30 (343 views)
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Totally agree with that [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't mind the odd mild reference but certainly don't want to see a ridiculous skateboarding Legolas again, for example. I do think the film is quite capable of standing on its own and does not need cross referencing to LOTR. The old Bilbo reference was fine, since it linked very well to the story, but that's about all of the characters from LOTR I want to see (apart from those that belong in The Hobbit as well, like Gandalf). I am, however, intrigued by the Necromancer plot line.


In Reply To
They get all hung up on being clones of each other, rather than concentrating on telling a unique story. The audience gets the relationship, they don't have to be beaten over the head with cross-references.

It should be possible for each series to be enjoyed for its own sake. After all, you enjoyed LotR without having seen The Hobbit, yes? And many people will enjoy seeing TH without having seen LotR. The fact that a few characters and the general ambiance of Middle Earth appear in both is quite sufficient, without further embellishments.



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on May 18 2013, 10:14am)


lembas_muncher
The Shire

May 18 2013, 10:50am

Post #17 of 30 (337 views)
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Good one [In reply to] Can't Post

I imagine Gandalf, Elrond and his hosts, lining up on the bridge of the fortress while the Necromancer unleashes a dark powerful fire spell to stop them..it's even hard to visualize the battle since the battlefield is not on a wide space but on a confined ruins with steep stairs and spiky vines..hmm?


dik-dik
Lorien


May 18 2013, 11:41am

Post #18 of 30 (352 views)
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I would personally prefer... [In reply to] Can't Post

... no Mordor shown in the movies. That stuff belongs to LotR for me, and I believe that TH ought to deal with Dol Guldur only. That way there can be a partial victory and happy end. Sauron getting comfy in his old Tower would ruin the finale for me, leaving an open end which I don't like in movies.

As for Sauron, since he's apparently supposed to have a corporeal form, a creepy outfit would suit me just fine to see. No Eye please, to echo Elizabeth's post. Unless it is that the Necromancer's eyes look exactly like the fiery eye we later see in LotR. That would seem very suitable as a non-forceful allusion to LotR to me.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

May 18 2013, 1:57pm

Post #19 of 30 (328 views)
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Dol Guldur is not a victory. [In reply to] Can't Post

The importance of the battle at Dol Guldur is that it isn't a real victory - it's actually a victory for Sauron, as it lulls the opposition into a false sense of security, allowing him to quietly move to Mordor and secretly build up his forces without being challenged - at least for a while. His defence of Dol Guldur is a feint - strong enough to convince the opposition that it's a real battle, but without risking serious loss of strength if he loses. I hope the film-makers show this, as it is much more interesting than a straight battle, with the good guys victorious at the end.


lembas_muncher
The Shire

May 18 2013, 2:03pm

Post #20 of 30 (302 views)
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hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

well, I think if they pushed through with the bridge movie, a Mordor scene would be somewhat plausible. But I kinda like that subtle fiery eye allusion.


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 18 2013, 5:52pm

Post #21 of 30 (271 views)
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I wonder... [In reply to] Can't Post

... if the Necromancer will have the same form as in AUJ or if he'll get armor like the Nazgul so normal people can see him?? Perhaps Radagast saw him and the Nazgul because he is an Istari and we will get to see him in a sweet armored form (not the same as FOTR prologue tho).


dik-dik
Lorien


May 18 2013, 5:58pm

Post #22 of 30 (262 views)
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Yes, that's why I said 'partial victory'. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron flees nonetheless, so for the Mirkwood Elves and those threatened by Dol Guldur (Lorien, Rivendell), this is a relief. And since Gandalf says in the FotR movie that 'The Ring has awoken, it's heard its master's call' and that 'his orcs are multiplying', it sounds as if quite a few of Sauron's servants died in the battle which according to JRRT was taxing for the White Council.
Also, unlike for you, for me a victory, albeit with Sauron on the run and someone saying something along the lines of 'He will yet return, but for now, the danger is gone', would work much better than disturbing images of Sauron refurnishing the Dark Tower. I'm a viewer who likes their movie with a happyend of a sort. :)

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


dik-dik
Lorien


May 18 2013, 6:02pm

Post #23 of 30 (266 views)
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I'd be fine with both... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. though maybe the armour would work better for me, to distinguish him from the Nazgul.
But I'd absolutely love to see the Necromancer's fiery eyes and hands with nine fingers. ^ ^

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


(This post was edited by dik-dik on May 18 2013, 6:03pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 18 2013, 8:12pm

Post #24 of 30 (272 views)
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We should not see "The Eye" unless (minor spoiler)... [In reply to] Can't Post

The only way that we should see "The Eye" is if Jackson compresses events so that Sauron declares himself in Barad-dur before Gandalf and Balin return to visit Bilbo at Bag End. That is if he includes the visit in the first place.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Yngwulff
Gondor


May 19 2013, 8:19am

Post #25 of 30 (208 views)
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BO5A [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Sauron flees nonetheless, so for the Mirkwood Elves and those threatened by Dol Guldur (Lorien, Rivendell), this is a relief. And since Gandalf says in the FotR movie that 'The Ring has awoken, it's heard its master's call' and that 'his orcs are multiplying', it sounds as if quite a few of Sauron's servants died in the battle which according to JRRT was taxing for the White Council.
Also, unlike for you, for me a victory, albeit with Sauron on the run and someone saying something along the lines of 'He will yet return, but for now, the danger is gone', would work much better than disturbing images of Sauron refurnishing the Dark Tower. I'm a viewer who likes their movie with a happyend of a sort. :)



It says 3/4 of the Goblins of the north fell there and it was many a day til they recovered their strength.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
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