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Colwyn Bay teacher has access to JRRT's private papers...

dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 24 2013, 8:41am

Post #1 of 17 (9379 views)
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Colwyn Bay teacher has access to JRRT's private papers... Can't Post

Has anyone seen this article? Any thoughts?

I was intrigued by the reference to Tolkien's 'appalling handwriting' - from the oddments I've seen of it I'd say it was rather beautiful and very distinctive. Also by the 'a single dream...' quote, which, as I understand it, isn't from Tolkien at all.

I envy her access to the papers, though!


geordie
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2013, 12:11pm

Post #2 of 17 (9929 views)
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thanks for that - [In reply to] Can't Post

- I hadn't seen it before. I'd like to see her book when it comes out. Yes, it isn't as impossible to see the papers as some would have us think - (usually those who haven't received permission).

AFAIK the family is happy to let bona fide scholars have access to the papers - Michael Drout springs to mind - and I know of another, a friend on facebook, who has also been working with the papers in connection with his thesis.

It is a pity that they used that 'quote' - as Darkstone pointed out some time ago, it's not Tolkien - it's actually from a poster for the Bakshi movie. I tried to say so on the newspaper page; but the paper insisted that I allow them to look at my profile and my friends list; so they will have to remain ignorant of the fact.

Smile

*almost forgot - Tolkien did have a beautiful calligraphic hand, but when he was dashing down notes, the results are often indecipherable - even by Christopher.


(This post was edited by geordie on Apr 24 2013, 12:13pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 1:19pm

Post #3 of 17 (10050 views)
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Which in turn is from Nathaniel Hawthorne [In reply to] Can't Post

"If his inmost heart could have been laid open, there would have been discovered that dream of undying fame, which, dream as it is, is more powerful than a thousand realities."
-Fanshawe, 1828

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



NottaSackville
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2013, 2:41pm

Post #4 of 17 (8887 views)
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Hey - welcome back! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 2:46pm

Post #5 of 17 (8598 views)
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Hey! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thx!

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 3:19pm

Post #6 of 17 (9487 views)
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I think it's rude that she criticized his handwriting [In reply to] Can't Post

This woman was granted a rare privilege by the Tolkien family, and one of the first things she says about it publicly is that his handwriting was "appalling"? Even if that were true - which it isn't - it didn't need to be said. Of course his scribbled notes are hard to read, everybody's are - what on earth did she expect?

And, after six years of researching his work, and despite all the quotable, inspiring words of his she could have referenced, she "remembers" and chooses to quote something from him - that he didn't originate?

This woman sounds very peculiar to me.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2013, 4:50pm

Post #7 of 17 (8453 views)
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Oh yes, thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

- I forgot about that.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Apr 24 2013, 4:51pm

Post #8 of 17 (8443 views)
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I couldn't agree more..how dare she!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"True courage is about knowing not when to take a life, but when to spare one."


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Apr 24 2013, 7:07pm

Post #9 of 17 (8457 views)
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Fortunately, someone else was able to successfully comment [In reply to] Can't Post

Our friend Troels, in fact. He posted a comment providing the relevant information about where the quote actually comes from.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Morgan
Registered User


Apr 24 2013, 7:46pm

Post #10 of 17 (9578 views)
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Let's not get carried away [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And, after six years of researching his work, and despite all the quotable, inspiring words of his she could have referenced, she "remembers" and chooses to quote something from him - that he didn't originate?

This woman sounds very peculiar to me.


I'd advise not to base your judgement on a single article in a newspaper. I wrote the following in a comment on Facebook:

Doing a bit of research, it is quite obvious that the author of the article (a David Powell) has "constructed" this article from a news piece first appearing on the website of the Rydal Penrhos School, where Dr Brown appears to be employed (see http://rydalpenrhos.com/news/13/04/lifelong_passion_for_tolkien). Powell has more or less just "copy-pasted", re-arranged the original text, and used a bit of his own imagination. It's a shame, really: in the original article, the fake Tolkien quote appears not to have been provided by Dr Brown, but by the incognito author of the article.


(This post was edited by Morgan on Apr 24 2013, 7:49pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 9:16pm

Post #11 of 17 (8944 views)
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The word "appalling" [In reply to] Can't Post

is very harsh. That "dream" quote may have been inaccurately attributed to her, however, the word "appalling" is used and specifically quoted in both articles, which implies it is her description of Tolkien's handwriting. If that is therefore accurate, then, in my opinion, it's a peculiar way to show her appreciation of the person whose works she has had a lifelong passion for, and of the privilege she was granted by his family to access his works privately and for such a long time, to so harshly criticize the gentleman's handwriting.


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 25 2013, 7:21am

Post #12 of 17 (8281 views)
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Thanks for that [In reply to] Can't Post

It makes more sense to have the original source of the story.


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 25 2013, 7:22am

Post #13 of 17 (8826 views)
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Hello, good to see you.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've missed the cat in the hat!


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 26 2013, 4:54pm

Post #14 of 17 (8524 views)
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Good to see you. [In reply to] Can't Post

And who can forget the moment when Meowyn Melonhelm faces down the evil Dog Queen: "Begone, foul Dripslobber! No living tom am I!"

Cool

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Morgan
Registered User


May 12 2013, 9:40am

Post #15 of 17 (9433 views)
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Dr Brown's statement [In reply to] Can't Post

Dr Sara Brown has posted a public statement concerning the misrepresentation of her work in the newspaper article (see bottom post):

http://www.tolkienguide.com/...mode=0&start=130

In case you have trouble accessing the link to the other website, the main part of her post reads:


Quote
[..] I had nothing to do with what was written in the article. The school I work for (Rydal Penrhos) sent a short note to the local paper thinking it might be nice publicity for the school, and the paper made up the rest. I can assure you that 1. I have indeed completed the thesis, which is why I am able to call myself Dr Brown, 2. I am perfectly capable of spelling Middle-earth, unlike the newspaper journalist, and 3. I know my Tolkien quotes. Goodness only knows where the journalist got it from.

I had no idea I was getting such stick online for this article. It's a bit sad, as I dedicated 6 years of my life to this study and I am very proud of my work. You are welcome to read the thesis - a copy is lodged at the university and in the British Library, as is standard practice.

A great pity that substandard journalism has undermined something I put my heart and soul into.

Anyone who cares to ask any questions about my work, and get actual answers from me, is welcome to contact me at sbrown@rydal-penrhos.com.


Dr Brown also asked me to quote from a private email to me, in order clarify a particular issue raised in the thread here at the ToRN forum:


Quote
When I saw the article in the paper I just rolled my eyes and thought no more of it. There was no way that they would have printed a clarification and I thought it wasn't worth the bother. It is only a local paper and I never thought it would cause such a furore.

I was never interviewed by the journalist. As I said in the message, my school sent a short note and the journo took it from there. I did not use the word 'appalling' - I remember when I was asked about it by the marketing woman from school I said that his handwriting was sometimes difficult to read, which is what she wrote in the note to the paper. I also said that, to gain access to the private papers you have to get an academic reference and go through a process. The journalist turned that into "was given rare access". They then added this 'quote' at the end, which I am only too aware did not come from Prof Tolkien. To cap it all, they then spelled Middle-earth as Middle Earth. Sigh.


It's my experience that anonymous posters tend to forget that real people actually can get both personally hurt and wrongly accused (with widespread implications) for what is rashly written. Let this be a lesson to be considerate in our posts and to maintain a critical perspective in our reliance on sources.


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 12 2013, 10:47am

Post #16 of 17 (8325 views)
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Thanks for this, Morgan - [In reply to] Can't Post

quote - "Let this be a lesson to be considerate in our posts and to maintain a critical perspective in our reliance on sources."

damn straight!
.




Loresilme
Valinor


May 12 2013, 12:26pm

Post #17 of 17 (8330 views)
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Thanks for the additional info [In reply to] Can't Post

That makes a whole lot more sense!

 
 

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