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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
SMAUG THE MAGNIFICENT!
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Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 7:47pm

Post #1 of 42 (2275 views)
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SMAUG THE MAGNIFICENT! Can't Post

A little bit loud hehehe well I was wondering about Smaugs size, in the book if Im not wrong Gandalf says that Smaug was a young worm when he entered Erebor, so in the prologue we see him in a very big size, my guess is that he will be bigger in DOS,

I can see him crossing the front gate and making a hole even bigger that the one he made when he entered the mountain


By the way I wanna say that the front gate when they refer in Bag End that is closed, I can see what they meant, it was closed because it want never an option to go that way since they know the dragon came out several times after the first attack(book)

DoS is gonna be ...wow

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 7 2013, 8:15pm

Post #2 of 42 (1208 views)
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DoS is gonna be ...wow [In reply to] Can't Post

 Random SW fans, circa 1998, said the same. Tongue

So yeah....SMAUG!

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Skaan
Lorien


May 7 2013, 8:23pm

Post #3 of 42 (2723 views)
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Here are some pictures [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a picture that gives an idea of his size in the prologue:
http://imageshack.us/f/818/sizecomparisonsmaugdwar.png/

And here's a picture of the Bilbo-in-gold pic from DoS, resized so the coins match the size of the coins in Smaug's end shot in AUJ. This should give you an idea of his size compared to Bilbo:
http://imageshack.us/f/268/58784685.png/

Seems like his size will make for an interesting conversation scene with BilboSmile


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 8:25pm

Post #4 of 42 (1107 views)
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Come on Lusitano [In reply to] Can't Post

Im changing my mind about the movies, I hope you get in this with me, by the way love your photo

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 8:28pm

Post #5 of 42 (1071 views)
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This is so epic [In reply to] Can't Post

The first photo Im afraid that Smaug shot is taken from a larger distance than the second, but the photo of Bilbo resized is EPIC

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 7 2013, 9:29pm

Post #6 of 42 (958 views)
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It will be really difficult [In reply to] Can't Post

for the characters to work well visually if there is such a difference in scale between them. I wonder how that will be handled? Smile

'The photo of Bilbo resized is EPIC'


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


May 7 2013, 10:33pm

Post #7 of 42 (924 views)
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Thanks for the images [In reply to] Can't Post

Great comparison there, Smaug truly is a big lad.

Wonder if they'll play the conversation from a sort of over Bilbo's shoulder shot, or have Bilbo in one of the lower corners and have Smaug take up most of the screen.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 7 2013, 11:53pm

Post #8 of 42 (873 views)
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150-foot wingspan (or so)? [In reply to] Can't Post

My best guess: 150-foot wingspan and maybe as much as 200 feet long.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


May 8 2013, 1:56am

Post #9 of 42 (841 views)
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they changed it in the films [In reply to] Can't Post

there is no way he wasn't full grown at the beginning of AUJ, he was huge in that sequence, did you see him when he entered Erebor? I doubt Smaug will be any larger.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 8 2013, 7:47am

Post #10 of 42 (747 views)
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how do you know that? [In reply to] Can't Post

I didnt read it anywere. Im not telling that is not true of course, but I dont know, its a very good chance to have a massive foe

When he enters the mountain his claws and hands are big, but I would imagined it even bigger, I dont know...

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Skaan
Lorien


May 8 2013, 11:42am

Post #11 of 42 (708 views)
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I always imagined [In reply to] Can't Post

During Bilbo's conversation with Smaug, i always imagined Smaug to be sitting on his pile of gold like this: http://whatcouldisay.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/high_res_4x_aa_glint.jpg

With only his neck and head raised, and the rest of his body resting on the gold. Ofcourse, this would be when Smaug is still in his curious state (when he's still trying to figure out who he's talking to, and trying to solve the riddles). And as soon as he's getting angry/irritated, he would start getting on all fours and start moving around a bit, searching for Bilbo, only to finally go crazy when Bilbo mentions revenge.

I really feel that, if they get this scene right, it could become the highlight of the whole trilogy (and perhaps even from both trilogies)


MaeBeth
Bree


May 8 2013, 4:30pm

Post #12 of 42 (661 views)
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I hope, for Bilbos' sake [In reply to] Can't Post

...That he doesn't get any bigger!Laugh
Y'know, I always pictured him red, but what little we saw in AUJ had a bit of blue. Evil or no, I bet the colors will be gorgeous! Also, I wonder how he's staying warm? He's somewhat of a lizard, yes? Is it cause he's (sort of) underground?Shocked

For you & I, there's a new land (Angels that fly)
Sanctuary, my sanctuary yeah
Where fears & lies melt away (Musical tide)
What's left of me, what's left of me now


Bombadil
Half-elven


May 8 2013, 7:15pm

Post #13 of 42 (644 views)
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FIVE " thRINGs"... about MISTER Magnificent? [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Someone here thought that maybe his Coloring
changes like a Chameleon? based on his Mood..

a. Red, when angry..
b. Golden, when he Feels he is smarter than Bilbo...
c. Sorta Blue, while Sleeping..(like Hibernating?)

2. The Size of his Tail must be close to
the Size of the rest of HIM?

3. The Booming echoing of his Voice in this Vast
Chamber will ADD so much to Benny's VoiceOver!

4. His UnderBelly encrusted w/ Jewels,
Coins, Shields, Helmets, and all types of Plunder ...
will distinguish him.. from ANY others.

5. His Fire-Breathing in 3D is gunna "shinge"
ALL of us
in our
Seats?

Yippie,
Bring it ON!

Bomby


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 8 2013, 9:45pm

Post #14 of 42 (632 views)
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The good Lord [In reply to] Can't Post

knows i have tried to open my soul to TH...if only it had been more charming, i might have taken him home with me me ..Wink

Its all up to the naughty DOS trrailer to rekindle my passion...even if its just a short affair ..

You are? So, i assume your opinion has not been very appreciative? One should not try to force oneself to enjoy something, if his gut says otherwise..

Ha thanks! Its not me, but it sort of resembled my complexion and haircut ...once.

Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 8 2013, 10:41pm

Post #15 of 42 (609 views)
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Well regarding my guts [In reply to] Can't Post

All that I said once was well based, but I dont know, things have changed since I saw the DoS preview, and then when I herad the movie in english, two thngs that I didnt have in cinema

And plus the fact that I have lost the count in how many times I have watched AUJ already

Ad regarding the photo, I know perfectly who is Tongue

Now Im going Kili style, but we will seeSmile

Cheers!!!

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 8 2013, 10:46pm

Post #16 of 42 (600 views)
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About Glaurung habilities on Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

I herad about that theory, but I didnt consider the golden
Someone said that perhaps he could melt the gold and making that golden shield with it I dont know

What Im almost certain is that PJ will give us a LOT more

Now, regarding Glaurung, do you thnkPJ will change Smaugs role a little bit by giving him a power like Glaurung skill to hypnotize?

Perhaps on the mountain side, Thorin is able to have a revealing chat with him, enough for Smaug to give an eye on him and causing Thorin the later dragon sickness

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 8 2013, 10:56pm

Post #17 of 42 (616 views)
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Bilbo can listen to the unaffected dwarves talk about dragon-sickness [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now, regarding Glaurung, do you thnkPJ will change Smaugs role a little bit by giving him a power like Glaurung skill to hypnotize?

Perhaps on the mountain side, Thorin is able to have a revealing chat with him, enough for Smaug to give an eye on him and causing Thorin the later dragon sickness



Actually, Tolkien hints that dragons can gain power over an individual if they know enough about them. Which is why it is fortunate that Bilbo never gave Smaug his name.

It should be enough to leave the dragon-sickness as a passive curse. Thorin is not the only member of the company who succumbs to it. Several of the other Dwarves do so as well. The unaffected Dwarves can fill Bilbo and the audience in on the affliction.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 9 2013, 12:20am

Post #18 of 42 (556 views)
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Good for you [In reply to] Can't Post

wish i could feel the same. I had a different reaction to the dos preview...whereas you seem to have your excitement for TH risen to unprecedented, Orthanc like, hights...to me, it just made me frown and roll my eyes...

Ah you should always see film in the original language, be it german, english, french, etc...if you can!! Smile I bet it has improved a lot, no doubt about that.

Ouch, you caught me...Wink..Maybe i should get his twin brother instead...

Kili style?? You mean....the stubble ...or...the exit?Unimpressed

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 9 2013, 1:06am

Post #19 of 42 (595 views)
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DOS preview (edited version anyways) [In reply to] Can't Post

the thing I thought about it (or at least the edited version) was Peter Jackson was more concerned with showing off his facilities and his movie posters than showing anything of DOS. And what was with all the scripted questions from his "Star" guests. Or the pointless questions about being bare foot. I would have rather heard more fan questions about the upcoming film or shown behind the scenes footage of DOS than that stuff. 45 minutes and we get at least 15 of it wandering the halls looking at James Bond posters and hearing Jed Brophy pucker up about a remake of Dam Busters and wanting to work with "Pete" again. I mean there was some behind the scenes stuff but if you ratio it out with all the non DOS stuff and pointless "guest appearances" its about 1/2 maybe.

I don't get it.... no new features on the DVD, the sneak peak was slim pickings, no trailer info yet, No Vlog. Crazy What are they doing? They must be fine tuning Azog or maybe rewriting another section of the film to not match what Tolkien wrote Mad.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


May 9 2013, 7:12am

Post #20 of 42 (561 views)
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I reckons we got so little because... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I don't get it.... no new features on the DVD, the sneak peak was slim pickings, no trailer info yet, No Vlog. Crazy What are they doing? They must be fine tuning Azog or maybe rewriting another section of the film to not match what Tolkien wrote Mad.





...so little of it was actually finished. The completed clip we got of the High Fells Adventure was leftover pickings from AUJ (it was shown at Comic-Con, for God's sake!) The rest, well, apart from stuff shot on location, has SO MUCH Green Screen that it must take far longer to create a finished shot in Post. Take the scenes with Legolas/Thranduil or Thorin/Thrnaduil. All there is of the set is practically Thranduil's throne and a few props. 12 years ago the actors would have had much more of a studio set to work in, even without the fantastic location sets like Rivendell and Edoras.. No wonder Lily says she's looking forward to seeing what the Elvenking's Halls actually look like! Crazy


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Skaan
Lorien


May 9 2013, 11:41am

Post #21 of 42 (629 views)
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Green screen [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't get why people keep complaining about the amount of green screen usage in The Hobbit. If you've watched the behind-the-scenes footage of LOTR, you'd know they've used about the same amount of green screen (well, blue screen actually) in LOTR. And don't forget that they still have pretty big sets aswell. You have Beorn's house, Laketown, the huge piles of gold for Smaug's lair, Mirkwood, etc. And then there's also the on-location shots (wich are also quite a lot, if you've watched the video blogs/behind-the-scenes footage).

It seems like they're building actual sets for close-ups of the environments, and green screen for the background. And that's basically what they did in LOTR aswell.

The reason stuff like Thranduil's halls is done with green screen is because i reckon it to be impossible to actually create those huge, open cavern-like halls as an actual set. You could argue that they could've done it with miniatures, but let's not kid ourselves here, today's CGI looks far better than using miniature shots.

I understand people's dislike for green screen, but all i'm saying is that you should think realistically about what it is that you actually want. And that you shouldn't look at LOTR with rose-tinted goggles and claim how few green screen they've used compared to The Hobbit.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 9 2013, 1:32pm

Post #22 of 42 (515 views)
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People complain because [In reply to] Can't Post

The film looks incredibly digital, green screened, often fake, studio like, like a sacharin induced green screen fest, etc...Some shots look so Cgi and amateurish i still cant believe it...it has none of natural, realistic, balanced look of Lotr, especially fellowship.

I think many scenes in Rivendell in Lotr were shot at an actual natural set location, a garden in Wellinton, and boy, it shows.

Plus, they had a wonderfull thing called miniatures Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


May 9 2013, 1:53pm

Post #23 of 42 (475 views)
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Haha [In reply to] Can't Post

you made me laugh with that description of what jackson and brophy spent most of the time talking about. Wink

Personally, i dont think Jackson is quite as charming and interesting of a character as he was back in the lotr days and before...

So, the entire, cup bearing, bare feet, dam busters, film posters of my youth, discovering what was jackson's wet dreams about in his teens... didnt do anything to me. For a DOS preview, they didnt use the time economically, showing and discussing important things about the adaptations...

The questions from the fans on the video are fanboy moments...one can hardly expect a real question about the adaptation to be put forward with them...Much less any question that hints on criticisms, or wonders if there have been things need to be questioned...

In all the interviews, press junkets, et all that i have seen with jackson about TH, i dont remember seeing an actually well thought, incisive, accurate set of questions about the way jackson adapted the material and how he filmed the this trilogy. Its mainly just "i love you i love you, youre so great , please tell us what its your favourite scene?"

These chats can be fun sometimes, but weve all seen this a hundred times. So....yes i was expecting more interesting questions.

As to the actors comments...i could do without them...they didnt say anythig of relevance...


At this point, we still dont know what jackson intends to do with the rest f the material and how hes going to adapt it...no vlog...didnt he say ..early in the new year? LOL...and those Quint set reports?

Maybe they just decided to slow down on the promotional stuff...pity becaus ethe vblogs were a lot of fun.

Fine tunning Azog haha.I bet, we saw them rehearsing more azog stuff ...

I think Azog should be removed form the hobbit, and if jackson fell in love with him that much, he should add him to the dam busters sequel...Sly

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Eleniel
Grey Havens


May 9 2013, 3:01pm

Post #24 of 42 (507 views)
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You said it all! [In reply to] Can't Post

  
At least the miniatures gave the CGI backgrounds a more natural depth and solidity. Sadly, the Dol Guldur and Rivendell distance shots in AUJ look about as realistic as those in the Star Wars prequels.

And yes, an outdoor Rivendell set was built at Kaitoke :

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/...6ec614f6e9908e5c.jpg


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Skaan
Lorien


May 9 2013, 3:30pm

Post #25 of 42 (497 views)
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Has nothing to do with green screen [In reply to] Can't Post

Almost nothing you mentioned has got anything to do with green screen though, it sounds more like you have problems with the post-production/color grading. For example, look at the first trailer for AUJ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGsB9dORBg
The shots in the first trailer look a lot more like the realistic look of LOTR wich you described, and that is mostly because they weren't in post-production back when they released the trailer. The color grading is what probably makes the film look digital/fake in your eyes, not the green screen.

About the miniatures, i already talked about that in my previous post. Today's CGI looks far better than miniature shots. They looked great on LOTR, but they would look outdated now and would need even more post-production effects in order to match today's standards in terms of visual effects. There's also the fact that you are able to have a lot more camera movement in CGI shots, compared to the more restricted feel of miniatures. For example, compare some of the scenes of Moria and the caverns below Isengard to Goblintown. Don't you think Goblintown looks better? I'm not talking about the design of these areas, but the actual graphics and visual sharpness and everything. The only reason people would want miniatures these days is so they can say: "Look, these are practical effects rather than CGI", even though it would look better in CGI. Also, even if they did use miniatures, they would still need to use green screen aswell then in order to get the characters into these environments.

It seems like most people don't actually dislike the CGI effects, they just hate the fact that it's CGI in the first place.

Regarding your other post about a lack of interesting interviews, i kinda agree with this. You may find this interview interesting though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WssJ_ZEsDyo
It's pretty long and a rather old interview, but i still find it quite good. It's been a while since i watched it though, so i'm not sure if they also talk about the things you mentioned.

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