Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Some biosphere thoughts

Brethil
Half-elven


May 8 2013, 5:29pm


Views: 273
Shortcut
Some biosphere thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


2. Do you buy into this concept of the biosphere of arda, that the Elves and the Edain are not just inhabitants, but forces for health within it, like the rain and the wind?
Does this macro view make you feel differently about what is healthy for this world? Does it make you reconsider any of your previous assessments of the Valar, Elves, or Edain?
Does it make anything that happens more meaningful, or less meaningful?
Does this biosphere concept impact any thinking you've had in the previous segment regarding suffering?






I do find it an interesting concept, but I see it from a different perspective: that the biosphere changes don't occur because of the awakening of the Edain, but by the way the world is nourished: through the new Sun.

The old Arda, under the Elves, was sort of 'sleeping' I think (as the Secondborn still were). Lorien and Este (In the Blessed 'Feedback' section) ask for some darkness and starlight as the constant light has disrupted the sleep in Arda - so in my mind that starlight and nighttime equates to a restful, sleeping era (Varda makes the change, very much like one of our good Modar...). The new Arda, as Men awaken, under the fallen but blazing light of the Sun, also awakens with clouds and waterfalls (implying rains) and an explosion of growth. This brings to mind an interesting biological analogy for me...
(...especially having read Squire's link to the biology of Arda discussion. The lack of UV light for example allowing for longer telomeres on the caps of Elven DNA strands, providing for long, un-mutated replications and life spans but not changing the gamete mixing between Elf and Men. The exposure of Men to the sun, shortening the DNA strand and limiting their life-span. Merely an amusing speculative foray into fantasy biology. It would perhaps explain Cirdan's beard, having long exposure to the Sun at his great age he experienced a mutation! But that is all a whimsical side note.)...
...Back to topic: the Sun sped up the rate of growth, woke up the olvar and kelvar more than they had been before, so that's why I think the years seem to fly by faster, yet be richer. So I don't think it is a sickness, but that life simply speeds up and wakes up - appropriate for a race to govern who IS limited by time, and *must* learn to use their time wisely, So here too I don't see it as negative, a disease-state or punitive, but part of the learning experiences needed to make the 'best' of the Secondborn and maybe the best creation of the next world according to Eru's vision. So maybe I see Arda as the growing and proving ground for the ultimate vision. Perhaps Arda isn't it.
The Sun of course is the second best light, the imperfect vision...but I don't think it is second-best for Men. For them I think it is ideal. I think the second-best refers to the Elven-centric Sil perspective (appropriate) and also from their lack of understanding of the nature of Men (after all the Gift puzzles them mightlily, doesn't it? To the point of envy.)

Might be fanciful but I see an optimism in here.

(“I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo.
“So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”)

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."

(This post was edited by Brethil on May 8 2013, 5:36pm)

Subject User Time
Silmarilion Discussion: Chapter 12 -- "Of Men," Part 2: The Biosphere of Arda Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 4:06am
    direct link to image Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 4:09am
        Map of Arda based upon Tolkien's drawings Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai May 8 2013, 3:28pm
            thanks : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 1:30pm
    question 1 -- why is mortality "unclean," if it is part of the biosphere? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 4:17am
        Wish I knew CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 8 2013, 1:34pm
            yes, perplexing and.... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 2:47pm
            well... telain Send a private message to telain May 8 2013, 9:19pm
                And let's not even discuss those smelly Dwarves... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 2:41am
                    oh, lets! telain Send a private message to telain May 9 2013, 2:54am
                        Musings on cleanliness. Including bubble baths. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 12:00pm
                            Two Tolkien ideas collide? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 9 2013, 12:39pm
                                I *think* they are complimentary ideas NoWiz Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 6:19pm
                                    Yes and no CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 10:14pm
                                        Grass being greener Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 1:40am
                                    Fearing the decline Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth May 10 2013, 6:53am
                                        Agreed Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 11:27am
                                        speaking of decline Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 12:11pm
                            agreed. and no bubble bath can help Maedhros... telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 2:15am
                                who can touch a silmaril Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 2:28am
                                That hallowing is tricky...and I think there is something important in there. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 2:41am
        off the cuff... telain Send a private message to telain May 8 2013, 1:57pm
            morgoth and mortality, entropy Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 1:43pm
                excellent point about death telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 2:31am
        Envy Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone May 8 2013, 2:26pm
            perhaps.... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 2:36pm
                "Aside the Devil turned, For envy..." Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone May 9 2013, 5:11pm
        On uncleanliness and test of faith Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 8 2013, 5:03pm
            faith and the great unwashed horde telain Send a private message to telain May 9 2013, 2:47am
            "fall" is a strong word Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 2:47pm
                Fall - It is a strong word! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 5:55pm
        "Cleanliness is next to Godliness"..... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 May 9 2013, 6:03am
            mortality and decay Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 9:56pm
                Elves and the disturbing sight of Death Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 10:04pm
                    elves as witnesses to death Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 10:21pm
                What a difference one letter makes..... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 May 9 2013, 10:28pm
                    lmdao! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 10:35pm
                    **lots of giggling here** Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 10:56pm
                        they're Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 10:58pm
                            I'll keep immorality over immortality any day... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 11:26pm
                                And cool kids are usually immoral CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 10 2013, 1:50pm
                                it is only... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 1:58pm
                                    Excellent logic here! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 4:44pm
        I think the two are seperate. sador Send a private message to sador May 9 2013, 8:53am
            Differentiating mortal and unclean (and evil)? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 12:45pm
    question 2 -- do you agree or disagree with this concept of the biosphere of arda? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 4:25am
        Some biosphere thoughts Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 8 2013, 5:29pm
        Partially CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 12:03pm
            I'm not sure I'm going to come to an agree/disagree view about the Biosphere theory noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 9 2013, 12:45pm
            Men's promise past Arda Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 12:53pm
        Answers sador Send a private message to sador May 9 2013, 12:50pm
            I still have questions about the Moriquendi... telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 2:52am
    question 3 -- is suffering equivalent to mortality? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 4:30am
        Suffering and Free Will among Men and Elves Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 8 2013, 7:46pm
        Tolkien cheats death CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 12:09pm
            the meaning of murder when you can rebody Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 9 2013, 10:05pm
        Why do you equate suffering with loss? sador Send a private message to sador May 9 2013, 2:42pm
            sufferin' succotash Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 1:41am
                Maybe the elves must suffer their immortality? noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 18 2013, 8:28am
                    Wilfred Thesiger, elf noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 18 2013, 9:59am
                    I agree with all this NoWiz Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 18 2013, 1:59pm
                    hmmm Annael Send a private message to Annael May 18 2013, 5:47pm
    question 4 -- the two races and the two trees Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 4:39am
        It gets worse CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 12:20pm
            well, when the Men of Bree are your closest examples of Edain-kind... telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 2:37am
                visions of the edain Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 2:46am
                    ...And that guy belching with the carrot! gasp! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 2:48am
                        i was thinking Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 2:50am
                            **Bofur - laughing** Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 2:52am
                            Maybe... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 May 10 2013, 5:36am
                    pure brilliance! telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 1:05pm
                        hah! : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 1:13pm
                    *rolling with laughter* ! CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 10 2013, 2:06pm
        I'm not sure about this comparison. sador Send a private message to sador May 9 2013, 3:02pm
            elucidating upon the two trees, two races metaphor Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 2:03am
    question 5 -- how powerful is mortality? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 11:57am
        Time in elfland noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 9 2013, 12:20pm
        Look out for the unclean new neighbors CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 12:29pm
            Men need distance from the Divine? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 9 2013, 1:03pm
                Though it's never stated outright CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 9:33pm
                    I like where this is going telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 1:18pm
                        The Summoning - did it mess up the Elven/Edain dynamic? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 10 2013, 5:02pm
                            here are some quotes Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 1:48pm
                                Fantastic citations Mac! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 3:05pm
                                    i think Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 3:33pm
                                        Haha!!! ROFL Mac! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 3:41pm
                                            a new name for you... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 3:43pm
                                                I love that Mac! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 3:50pm
                                                    both your public names go rather nicely together... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 3:51pm
                                                        They do sound rather nice...! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 4:03pm
                                                            (googling "mairo" now....) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 4:05pm
                                                            alright... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 4:06pm
                                                                Yes if you google it fixates on the Italian plumber...!!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 4:10pm
                                                                    ha! : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 11 2013, 4:41pm
                                    Reply to. "Fantastic citations" noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 11 2013, 4:08pm
                                        .*..Good citations..*. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 4:22pm
                                        Another appellation NoWiz. But it might be a spoiler. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 11 2013, 5:11pm
                                            Furincurunir! Love it! (Sounds nice, & all those curvy letters)!// noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme May 11 2013, 5:32pm
            still laughing... telain Send a private message to telain May 10 2013, 2:39am
        Do you want some of my miruvor? sador Send a private message to sador May 9 2013, 3:30pm
            Yes, it's been "glorious," as promised, Mac CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 9 2013, 5:17pm
            thank you, sador!!! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 10 2013, 12:34pm
                the Hallowing of the Silmarils as protection? telain Send a private message to telain May 12 2013, 10:16pm
                    that Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 12 2013, 10:23pm
                    what would have happened Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 12 2013, 10:26pm
                        to quote a line from Bladerunner... telain Send a private message to telain May 14 2013, 1:42am
                            Is that the End? Excellent idea Telain. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 14 2013, 1:53am
                    There is something mortal-perilous about the Silmarils' light CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 13 2013, 1:42am
                        I agree, "holy" isn't the right word telain Send a private message to telain May 14 2013, 1:57am
    link in original post Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 8 2013, 2:38pm

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.