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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Battle of Dol Guldur- who does what?
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Sharkey
The Shire


May 7 2013, 2:23am

Post #1 of 26 (876 views)
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The Battle of Dol Guldur- who does what? Can't Post

What do you forsee PJ having each member of the council do during the attack? Will they all be present for the duration? At this point all we really know is that Galadriel saves Gandy's butt, but the context is still unknown.
Give me your expert opinions!


Barrow-Wight
Lorien


May 7 2013, 2:35am

Post #2 of 26 (475 views)
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They'll all fight except... [In reply to] Can't Post

Saruman I think he would just stand on a hilltop watching the whole thing shaking his head disapprovingly maybe get involved at the last minute I don't know It was an Idea I used in my own treatment. I can't wait to see Radagast fight and prove he's more then a hippie


Ardamírë
Valinor


May 7 2013, 2:36am

Post #3 of 26 (425 views)
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Welcome, Sharkey! [In reply to] Can't Post

I personally have no clue what to expect. I don't even know what the attack will look like, or if there will even be an attack. I'm just hoping that Gandalf doesn't look too ridiculous and Galadriel too magnificent. Galadriel is described in The Silmarillion as having physically fought in battles before, so I'd love to see her do that here. But I'd also love to see her throw down the walls and lay bare the pits as described in the LOTR appendices. That seems more magical and Luthien-like. I hope to see her do both.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 3:03am

Post #4 of 26 (406 views)
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Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

I am certainly looking forward to seeing what they do with Saruman. Gandalf states in LOTR that it was the devices of Saruman that ultimately led to the Council driving the Necromancer out of Dol Guldur. Hopefully Saruman gets his chance to shine, even though they'd need a body double for Christopher Lee.

Also looking forward to seeing Radagast in action. It'd be interesting to see Galadriel in battle, but I share the common concerns about the fact that they might make her look quasi-omnipotent in the name of "girl power". I don't want her diminished, just keep her power scaled to below the wizards, but above the Nazgul. Hell, it'd even be cool to see Elrond in battle. I'm hoping that some more elf-lords will be involved, like Cirdan and Glorfindel, but I won't hold my breath for that (although maybe we'll get Lindir lol). Instead, it's looking likely that we will see the wood-elves fighting alongside the Council.


Ardamírë
Valinor


May 7 2013, 3:07am

Post #5 of 26 (401 views)
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Elrond [In reply to] Can't Post

Elrond is seen in armor in AUJ promotional material, and we had a report where it's mentioned that Elrond scouts out Dol Guldor with Gandalf. If that's still in place, he'll likely be at whatever battle happens as well. Plus, he's shown hunting orcs in AUJ. I doubt that's a one time thing in these films.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 7 2013, 4:13am

Post #6 of 26 (397 views)
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NECROMANCER [In reply to] Can't Post

I want to know what HE is gunna do in this skirmish. The Nazgul too for that matter. I really really really want to see all the wizards in action! I know it might not happen because of Lee's age but it should be possible to get an action double to do it. I wonder if Raddy will use a sword? Also, how will gandalf lose that staff?? Plus maybe Galadriel will have some armor! IDK I'm am jacked for the possibilities here because PJ knows his fight scenes. Sly


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


May 7 2013, 5:20am

Post #7 of 26 (377 views)
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Saruman won't be at Dol-Guldur [In reply to] Can't Post

Christopher Lee is 90 years old now? he will most likely be watching via the palantir.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


boldog
Rohan


May 7 2013, 6:26am

Post #8 of 26 (351 views)
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the nine reveal themselves [In reply to] Can't Post

for some reason I can picture a scene just like weathertop in the fotr. Gandalf, Galadriel, radagast, saruman and Elrond are cornered and out of the darkness the nine ringwraiths come out in their hooded form just like lotr. also I can see saruman being expanded a lot in this plotline.
dol guldur is his time to shine and I believe it will be by his strength that the necromancer flees. during this time he is good, but I can see the story thicken and possibly in the third film they will show his secret downfall into evil. perhaps after gaining the palantir, or after being possessed or something

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Arannir
Valinor


May 7 2013, 6:52am

Post #9 of 26 (368 views)
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:) [In reply to] Can't Post




Maybe Saruman sends some lightning or some sort of machinery so that he still contributes crucially as mentioned in LotR.

If reports are true that Tauriel mentiones Glorfindel's prophecy about the Witch-King, I guess this should happen at the DG skirmish/battle. This would mean, however, that it is more than a skirmish and that they try to put together a host, potentially consisting out of Gladhrim and Woodelves.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


deskp
Lorien

May 7 2013, 7:09am

Post #10 of 26 (310 views)
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AUJ [In reply to] Can't Post

Elrond wears that armor in AUJ.


Elizabeth
Valinor


May 7 2013, 7:41am

Post #11 of 26 (288 views)
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They can do it. [In reply to] Can't Post

They can green-screen him into most anything, and use extras if he needs to move around much.

That said, I doubt if it's appropriate for his character to be too active. He would be "leading from the rear".








Elizabeth
Valinor


May 7 2013, 7:42am

Post #12 of 26 (299 views)
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He's going to duck out early. [In reply to] Can't Post

At least, that's what the book said: he knew they were coming, and withdrew before they got there.








Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 8:56am

Post #13 of 26 (286 views)
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Where the heck did you get this photo from? [In reply to] Can't Post

That pictre is awesome except for the impaled dudesCrazy

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Arannir
Valinor


May 7 2013, 9:00am

Post #14 of 26 (284 views)
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Angus McBride [In reply to] Can't Post

It is by Angus McBride and I found it on the Tolkien Gateway Page for the White Council. :)



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


dik-dik
Lorien


May 7 2013, 9:40am

Post #15 of 26 (278 views)
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Ack, what? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
At this point all we really know is that Galadriel saves Gandy's butt, but the context is still unknown.


Sometimes I'm glad I'm mostly living under the rock, spoiler-wise. One would think that this making Gandalf pretty much clueless to the point of ridiculed by the others, would have ended in Rivendell. (His role with the Council so far reminds me eerily of the movie take on the role of Bilbo with the Dwarf company...)Apparently not. Although, given this is a battle, I wonder if Gandalf himself also saves someone. That would only be fair. Tongue I wish the team gave Galadriel some vulnerability and showed she's not an omnipotent Mary Sue who never needs to get saved from harm.

As for the others during the attack, I am very much hoping to see some serious badass action by Saruman. And by that I mean him demonstrating the Maiarin power in him, not martial arts tricks which any mortal or Dwarf can do. :)
I'd dearly love to see Celeborn who I refuse to believe is a stay-at-home sissy. Not much chance of that, but hope dies last.

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


Glorfindela
Valinor


May 7 2013, 11:01am

Post #16 of 26 (239 views)
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I would absolutely love to see a tall, blond Glorfindel at last! [In reply to] Can't Post

There were several beautiful-looking 'Elves' in these films (there was one at Aragorn's wedding scene, standing near Elrond, for example). Perhaps one of them could be used (not 'Lindir', though – a gormless-looking youth).


In Reply To
I I'm hoping that some more elf-lords will be involved, like Cirdan and Glorfindel, but I won't hold my breath for that (although maybe we'll get Lindir lol). Instead, it's looking likely that we will see the wood-elves fighting alongside the Council.



Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 2:19pm

Post #17 of 26 (196 views)
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I know he did that the first time.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf explores Dol Guldur, a few hundred years prior to the events of The Hobbit. But then a few hundred years later Sauron goes back, and Gandalf again goes into Dol Guldur, finds Thrain, and this time figures out that it IS Sauron, and not one of the Nazgul. If I'm not mistaken, Sauron IS present when the Council first attacks Dol Guldur, but shortly afterward flees to Mordor.



In Reply To
At least, that's what the book said: he knew they were coming, and withdrew before they got there.



Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 2:40pm

Post #18 of 26 (195 views)
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Well I know that Lee won't be physically present... [In reply to] Can't Post

But why couldn't they CGI his face onto a body double? I'm pretty sure that's how they filmed his Star Wars battle scenes.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


May 7 2013, 2:40pm

Post #19 of 26 (196 views)
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Actually I think it states [In reply to] Can't Post

"he fled before them", I too would take that as he knew they were coming and fled before they got there. Not saying there wont be Orcs, goblins, and possibly bats there. But I hope the Necromancer is gone before the attack.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 2:47pm

Post #20 of 26 (189 views)
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Glorfindel [In reply to] Can't Post

That certainly would be nice, but I highly doubt it'll happen.


Ardamírë
Valinor


May 7 2013, 3:39pm

Post #21 of 26 (166 views)
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I know. [In reply to] Can't Post

I said as much. I'm just saying it's very possible that because we've seen him wear it once for a small orc hunt, it's possibly a hint of his fighting abilities and armor-wearing in the attack at Dol Guldor.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 4:17pm

Post #22 of 26 (160 views)
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I think what you're referring to... [In reply to] Can't Post

is in "The Council of Elrond" chapter of FOTR where Gandalf says that Sauron "gave way before us, but only feigned to flee...". I took that to mean that although Sauron knew they were coming, he purposely stuck around and then fled in front of the Council to make them think that they had defeated him, when in reality he was returning to a rebuilt Mordor (and would declare himself openly shortly thereafter). Most of the info on the Council's assault on Dol Guldur was very vague. The majority of the info simply states that the White Council drove him out of Dol Guldur. However, Gandalf says this in Unfinished Tales, "The Quest of Erebor" - "That is why, to jump forward, I went off as soon as the expedition against Smaug was well started and persuaded the Council to attack Dol Guldur first, before he attacked Lorien. We did, and Sauron fled." To me, that sounds like he was present at the beginning of the attack. I do agree that Sauron himself probably did not do battle against the Council, but I disagree with the notion that he was long gone by the time they arrived.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


May 7 2013, 4:40pm

Post #23 of 26 (164 views)
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Forgot to add this... [In reply to] Can't Post

Also from "The Council of Elrond" Gandalf states "It was by the devices of Saruman that we drove [Sauron] from Dol Guldur." That leads me to believe that Sauron WAS present when the Council attacked.


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

May 8 2013, 12:20am

Post #24 of 26 (113 views)
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That's what i'm talking about! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a nice picture you found. The environment is rife with
wickedness and evil. The darkness and red gives it that sort of
fearful darkness that i think would really aid these dol guldor scenes.
I especially like the bodies on the side of the road, but unfortunately, i don't
think they'll make it that gloomy for the sake of the younger audiences and ratings Unsure.

Yet, one of my favorite things is the portrayal of the white council members. Here, they're not playing
'too cool.' There is little affectation, only urgency and exhortation to confront this evil. thus the scene appears
genuine, which i think makes since for the guardians of an aged Middle-Earth. I'm glad they don't appear above it all.

I think this would be a cool shot in the film to see them running as a group up the bridge and then cut away to a different storyline; that
what be suspenseful i would think.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


May 8 2013, 12:44am

Post #25 of 26 (119 views)
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Christopher Lee could have a body-double [In reply to] Can't Post

Saruman should be present for the assault, even if he doesn't take part physically. Lord Elrond is actually more debateable. He and Gandalf act as if he was not present at Dol Guldur when they discuss the Necromancer the following Spring in Rivendell. If Jackson does have Elrond present then that would likely negate any urge to include his twin sons Elladan and Elrohir at the attack. I would like to see Glorfindel and/or Cirdan there, but I don't think that it will happen.

Personally, I see Galadriel using her magic defensively while Gandalf, Saruman and (maybe) Radagast contend with any magical assaults from the stronghold. Any ground troops would be mostly Silvan and Sindar Elves from Lothlorien, with more Elves from Rivendell and the Grey Havens mixed with a small force of Northern Rangers (with or without Elrond's sons). An additional reserve force of Wood-elves from Mirkwood is possible but seems unlikely to me. I see Thranduil putting the safety of his own folk ahead of the desires of the White Council.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 8 2013, 12:46am)

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