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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
More evidence of Azog/Necromancer connection?

Lio
Lorien


May 7 2013, 1:46am

Post #1 of 12 (650 views)
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More evidence of Azog/Necromancer connection? Can't Post

So, by now it's common knowledge that Azog's son Bolg is hanging out in Dol Guldur for some reason. (We'll probably have to wait until DoS to find out why. Tongue)

While going through the recently released AUJ Chronicles: Creatures & Characters, a few comments caught my eye which seem to further suggest a connection between Azog and the Necromancer.

From "Concering Orcs" (page 180): "The thought of revenge upon Thorin and the final destruction of the line of the Longbeards gnawed at Azog, but he bided his time until late in the Third Age, when the emergence of the Necromancer and commencement of Thorin's Quest to retake Erebor saw him lead a troop of hunters in a chase across Middle-earth in pursuit of the Dwarven company."

The above may suggest that the Necromancer has something to do with Azog pursuing Thorin, but it could just as well be placing Azog's hunt in the context of other events that are occurring at the time. However there is another line that seems to be hinting at something more.

From "Orc Language and Speech" (page 193): "Azog, being a rare, intelligent Orc, uses both the Black Speech and Orcish depending on who he is addressing. His hunters speak Orcish."

Okay, now this is interesting! There is a distinction between Orkish and Black speech and the Orcs use the former when speaking to each other. As far as I can tell Black Speech isn't used in AUJ, so if Azog does speak it it must be in the upcoming movies. But to whom would he speak in Black Speech rather than Orkish? I can't imagine it being anyone but Sauron or maybe the Ringwraiths. What does everyone think?

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

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The Mitch King
Rohan


May 7 2013, 4:05am

Post #2 of 12 (293 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel pretty certain about the DG/Azog connection and I think we will probably see him use the black speech in DOS. After all, Azog will be heading to Mirkwood in pursuit of the company and we all know what evil dude lives there Smile


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


May 7 2013, 5:26am

Post #3 of 12 (261 views)
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Azog and company entering Mirkwood to follow the dwarves.. [In reply to] Can't Post

has this been confirmed?


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Arannir
Valinor


May 7 2013, 6:54am

Post #4 of 12 (244 views)
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I still hope... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that we will get the Gandalf / Thrain flashback early in DoS (potentially as a prologue) and that they will be overheard by either Orcs or the Nazgul, reporting back to Sauron, with him sending out information to Azog to hinder that quest.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


boldog
Rohan


May 7 2013, 10:46am

Post #5 of 12 (198 views)
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what do the orcs speek then in the film? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't recall Tolkien making a very sophisticated orc language as the one used in the films. where did Jackson get the language from anyway? besides even the black speech doesn't have that much words that have been emphasised by Tolkien. mainly just the inscription on the ring..........

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Arannir
Valinor


May 7 2013, 11:03am

Post #6 of 12 (194 views)
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David Salo [In reply to] Can't Post

probably took the words that are given by Tolkien and used them as a basis for more words.

He already did so for the occasions we heard the language in LotR (I think Sauron speaking to Frodo at the Pony).



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 7 2013, 5:57pm

Post #7 of 12 (130 views)
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Well no... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
has this been confirmed?


but a little Inductive thinking could go a long way. Where else are they gunna go now? Back to the MM's? Straight to Erebor?? I assume that the orcs caught by the wood elves shown in the sneak peek are proof that there are orcs in the dwarves vicinity. So I guess we will have to wait n see.


The Mitch King
Rohan


May 7 2013, 5:59pm

Post #8 of 12 (130 views)
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This is a possibility. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... that we will get the Gandalf / Thrain flashback early in DoS (potentially as a prologue) and that they will be overheard by either Orcs or the Nazgul, reporting back to Sauron, with him sending out information to Azog to hinder that quest.


Gandalf did seem to have reason to think somebody else knew about the quest.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


May 8 2013, 1:45am

Post #9 of 12 (88 views)
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that would be anti-climatic IF.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog is killed by wood elves. I hope he flees and survives to be killed by Thorin, it'll probably be similar to when Gandalf led the dwarves into the hidden pass and the elves ambushed them. Perhaps this time the shoe will be on the other foot, Azog reporting to the Necromancer that he has failed to kill Thorin and company.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


May 9 2013, 8:02am

Post #10 of 12 (63 views)
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Anti-Climatic? Bah. He is already dead really. Can't see him dealt with fas enough, I say. [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, saving him. . . wait. . . taking a second look I see you would still have him die in this film, just not at the hand of Elves. That works for me. Though Thranduil killing Azog would REALLY amp up Thorin's resentment. . . while being even more outlandishly defiant of cannon Unsure. Meh.

In Reply To
Azog is killed by wood elves. I hope he flees and survives to be killed by Thorin, it'll probably be similar to when Gandalf led the dwarves into the hidden pass and the elves ambushed them. Perhaps this time the shoe will be on the other foot, Azog reporting to the Necromancer that he has failed to kill Thorin and company.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Yngwulff
Gondor


May 12 2013, 6:00am

Post #11 of 12 (30 views)
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Dont agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Azog does not necesarily have to be associated with the Necromancer to leanr the Black Speech.
The Balrog of Moria, where Azog resides, would be a more probable source of that language for him


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


t_bomb
Registered User


May 12 2013, 12:35pm

Post #12 of 12 (43 views)
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On the AUJ DVD, with the English [In reply to] Can't Post

subtitles turned on, the caption on screen says "Black Speech" whenever Azog is delivering a line.

 
 

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