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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bilbo's conversation with Smaug, and how they will deal with invisibility


May 4 2013, 11:24am

Post #1 of 21 (1480 views)
Bilbo's conversation with Smaug, and how they will deal with invisibility Can't Post

So, i recently found this gif: http://i.imgur.com/lIwMNWd.gif

And from that, does anyone think they will let Bilbo hide under the gold in order to become invisible/hide from Smaug, rather than using the ring?

I always wondered how they were going to deal with the invisibility in this scene. Using the ring works fine in the book, but it could cause some problems when you want to translate it into the movie, considering wearing the ring changes the visuals into the spirit world(?).


May 4 2013, 1:39pm

Post #2 of 21 (765 views)
I think the shadow world... [In reply to] Can't Post

... isn't that much of a problem because it is not as dark and shady as it is by the time of FotR.

They would have had to film it like this and put on the effect later.

Or Bilbo only wears it for a part of the conversation and for one reason or the other takes it off / it flipps off at some point.

This seems to be after the conversation when Smaug is kind of freaking out... so maybe Bilbo realized that it might be easier for him to move without the ring and it does not make much of a difference anymore, since Smaug is already breathing is fire around like crazy.


A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


May 4 2013, 1:41pm

Post #3 of 21 (760 views)
Wowie! Notice the Red Flash on the Left? [In reply to] Can't Post

Must be a Blast of Flames from Mr. Magnificent?

Can't Wait...(Keep Breathing Bomby)


May 4 2013, 2:16pm

Post #4 of 21 (667 views)
Not sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

But it had to be hard for MF to run like that on a pile of gold in those feet! It's possible that the invisibility will just be passed over...I seem to recall Sam should have been invisible in the scene where he climbs the tower to save Frodo...but isn't--and it worked fine.


May 4 2013, 2:22pm

Post #5 of 21 (683 views)
Hiding under the gold... [In reply to] Can't Post

...would not be nice. We wouldn't be able to see Bilbo at all then. And carrying on a conversation while being buried under a pile of gold would not really feasible, even for a Hobbit, I think.

They did manage the whole invisibility thing quite nicely for the scenes with Gollum, I think. With some well-placed cuts back and forth between Bilbo in invisibility mode and what Smaug sees, it should be fine without having to change the whole scene by not having Bilbo wear the ring and hide instead.

The scene where Bilbo jumps out from under the pile looks more like a later scene, where Smaug is already riled up. Maybe Bilbo gets accidentally buried as Smaug moves about. And that red glare looks a lot like there is a bit of fire-breathing involved...


May 4 2013, 2:43pm

Post #6 of 21 (671 views)
There's not much point in having a ring that renders one invisible if it is not going to be used [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think that there is any question that the Ring will be used pretty much as in the book.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


May 4 2013, 3:06pm

Post #7 of 21 (619 views)
Agreed ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Though, I've just had a horrible thought. What happens if Bilbo were to lose a gold Ring, in all that pile of gold.

PJ wouldn't do that ... would he?

Tol Eressea

May 4 2013, 3:14pm

Post #8 of 21 (615 views)
Agreed, and in this still... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo is clearly wearing the Ring!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


May 4 2013, 3:26pm

Post #9 of 21 (643 views)
Possibly he will be invisible in that shot... [In reply to] Can't Post

if this is principal filming then just maybe they will remove Bilbo in Post Production - or this maybe a rehearsal.

I keep thinking - my goodness that is ALOT of gold there Crazy Laugh


May 4 2013, 5:21pm

Post #10 of 21 (564 views)
Why should they remove BIlbo? [In reply to] Can't Post

They will just add the shadow-world-effect in pp, I guess.

I think that is one of the reasons why they made the effect much less extreme compared to LotR. Although this can be kind of logically explained with the growing power of the Ring, I am sure they simply had to do it for the Hobbit, since Bilbo wears it much longer than Frodo in more important scenes in which he has to see what is going on "out there".


A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on May 4 2013, 5:26pm)


May 4 2013, 6:10pm

Post #11 of 21 (632 views)
We have already seen how they deal with it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo was invisible during part of the Riddles in the Dark scene. He was shown as a wiggly distortion that dislodged rocks and in other ways manifested his presence. I expect they'll do the same in the scenes with Smaug and other occasions for using the Ring.


May 4 2013, 6:23pm

Post #12 of 21 (570 views)
Elizabeth is Right! [In reply to] Can't Post

Bomby's guess?
Bilbo is fleeing into the Secret Passage
and hiding inside, just in time to get
his Hair a Little Burnt by
Smaug's Flames?


May 5 2013, 2:47am

Post #13 of 21 (458 views)
so we'll just see... [In reply to] Can't Post

a little bit of smoke Laugh

and an 'ouch'! Crazy


May 5 2013, 5:07am

Post #14 of 21 (420 views)
Invisibility should look great in 3-D at 48 fps! [In reply to] Can't Post


Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.


May 5 2013, 7:24am

Post #15 of 21 (421 views)
Personally I wouldn't mind Bilbo NOT being invisible [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm having a hard time imagining the whole scene in that invisible shadow-y mode -- might be a bit distracting...

Tol Eressea

May 5 2013, 6:00pm

Post #16 of 21 (316 views)
Have to say [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the shadow world of the ring is going to be too big a distraction, to make any sense within the context of events in the book. I realize this isn't the book but it should at least feel like the books events IMO. They have probably leave out most of his conversation with Smaug,since many of the events he discusses with him probably have been or will be altered in the upcoming films.. Bilbo was never mentioned to be the lucky number in AUJ, from all we have seen Bilbo will be in open barrel as well as the dwarfs, so there goes out barrel rider. "He who buries his friends, and drowns them, and draws them alive again from the water" well since from what we seen, again, the dwarfs are in open barrels, so Bilbo doesn't bury them, then the barrels are open so he doesn't drown them because Bilbo knows their fate and they were never under water, the whole conversation with Smaug will likely end up being changed witch is truly sad since I think the dialogue and scenario of Bilbo and Smaug, Tolkien wrote is perfect.Unsure


May 5 2013, 7:53pm

Post #17 of 21 (301 views)
Hard to say [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on how much they (PJ and actors) are all talking highly about it, I would guess it would be a mix of both. So iconic, so it'll be handled well.

Ziggy Stardust

May 6 2013, 1:28am

Post #18 of 21 (280 views)
That is an awesome gif [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was a fan-made animated gif. I was surprised to see that it was a gif of them actually filming Bilbo! I just spoiled myself. Laugh Still, it's a cool gif.

Ziggy Stardust

May 6 2013, 1:31am

Post #19 of 21 (276 views)
Yikes [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope not. Just thinking about it makes me feel frustrated for poor Bilbo.

Registered User

May 8 2013, 2:00am

Post #20 of 21 (180 views)
Remember the Fellowship of the Ring... [In reply to] Can't Post

While there is generally a shadow world, Jackson has used pure invisibility to demonstrate the ring, such as when Bilbo gets back from his birthday party.

I don't think that it would be a stretch for them to do the same here.


May 12 2013, 4:56am

Post #21 of 21 (176 views)
Combination [In reply to] Can't Post

He could do a lot of things ...

From Smaugs perspective a voice and 100% invisible
From Bilbos perspective shadowy
From an omniscient perspective show him visible once its established he is invisible

Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


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