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Roheryn
Tol Eressea
May 2 2013, 9:07am
Post #1 of 52
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So, we've all been impressed by the interior of Erebor...
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it's spectacular, and I'm under the impression none of us had imagined it to be so splendid and vast. The throne hall is breathtaking, with its vastness; the throne itself is hewn from living stone and veins of gold and...green...(what mineral *is* that?) in the stalactite-like rock above it; the areas for forging and mining are huge and unimaginably deep; the area where jewels are sorted sparkle also with veins of gold and green...you've seen it all; you know of what I speak.
But we haven't seen the living quarters.
Has anyone else wondered what the living quarters are like? Apartments? Communal rooms? Kitchens? Bedrooms? Does the Dwarves' idea of luxury include soft squooshy chairs and beds and fur rugs in front of cozy fires, or do they sit and sleep on chairs and beds of rock? Beautiful rock, probably, but rock nonetheless. Do they have windows and if so is that a desirable thing or do they prefer light from candles and torches? Do they suffer from Vitamin D deficiency? Wait, I digress...
Anyways, just wondering if anyone else has pondered these things, and what your thoughts might be.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
May 2 2013, 9:39am
Post #2 of 52
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Slightly less impressed by the narrative, however!
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Thranduil paying tribute???????
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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 2 2013, 9:58am
Post #3 of 52
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I didn't see any indication that Thranduil paid any tribute.
Thranduil paying tribute???????
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Angharad73
Rohan
May 2 2013, 10:13am
Post #4 of 52
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Why, yes, I have pondered this...
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But I haven't come to any conclusion. I'd love to catch glimpse of some of the more private quartets, though.
I suppose for the soldiers, there are some sort of barracks with communal kitchens, eating hall etc. But what about families? Children live with their parents, presumably, to a certain age, so they must have at least bedrooms together or some sort of apartment. The size would depend on the status of the family, I suppose. Do the ones higher up the pecking order get windows? What about bathroom facilities? Do they have running water?
So many questions...
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Arannir
Valinor
May 2 2013, 10:59am
Post #5 of 52
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I know this is what Bilbo says...
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... but I think it is outbalanced with Thranduil's look and the way he shifts his head to one side, clearly not thrilled about that wealth of his neighbours.
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Elvanui
Rivendell
May 2 2013, 11:19am
Post #6 of 52
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I've indirectly thought about this because I'm soon to move into a flat whose four rooms I'm planning on decor-ing based on the four Middle-earth races! Elvish bedroom, Mannish living room, Hobbit kitchen (of course), which leaves Dwarvish bathroom.  So yes I'd really like to see/know how they decorate their living quarters! I like the questions you've thought about. I imagine fire, carvings, stone, geometric patterns and animal fur. But they also might have a few more lighthearted, playful decorations around since they are, or were, such expert toymakers 
"...under all there was a great joy: a fountain of mirth enough to set a kingdom laughing, were it to gush forth."
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Angharad73
Rohan
May 2 2013, 11:27am
Post #8 of 52
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That would be interesting! It should be included in one of the movies. Let's find some music for them to play... 
Also, I'm very bad at typing...
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
May 2 2013, 12:11pm
Post #9 of 52
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Ooh, I like thinking about this...
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I've always thought it would be dreadful living underground without sunlight as the dwarves did, but seeing Erebor in AUJ made me reconsider!
Here is a screencap that shows what appear to be apartments/living quarters. (Hey, I never noticed there were dwarves walking around before! And check out the giant dwarf carving to the left. I wouldn't want to live across from that, though. "Mummy, why is that guy staring in our window?") Here's a second one. This one kind of gives a height perspective...are there living quarters all the way down to the "street" of lights below? Is that where the mining takes place, or is that in a different part of the mountain?
Anyway, I imagine apartments mostly, with probably a few communities with communal living--like any large city, I suppose. I imagine private quarters being much like a medieval castle--lots of stone, softened by tapestries (see the banners in the second screencap) and furs, with an abundance of metal, both for decoration and more mundane uses. I'd like to picture big roaring fires, but where would they have chimneys? So what do they do for heat--braziers would get kind of smoky...? (Hmm. Maybe that's why hand-knitted cardies are popular among certain dwarves.  ) However, seeing how "metropolitan" Dale seemed, and the variety of trade that went on, I imagine lots of useful things from other cultures also being in use. No doubt they had a few wooden things from Thranduil's realm, considering its proximity.
As for light, it looks like the dwarves used both torches and candles. I didn't notice any closed lanterns anywhere. I do wonder where all the light from the throne room "window" behind the throne came from, though! I don't think the dwarves mind not having sunlight--I suspect that biologically they are quite well adapted to living among stone and dark.
Hmm...must ponder more about Erebor's beauty...
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Bombadil
Half-elven
May 2 2013, 12:22pm
Post #10 of 52
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R D in your second screenCap there seems to be Dwarve Children
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lower center...talking to an adult?
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imin
Valinor
May 2 2013, 2:54pm
Post #13 of 52
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And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
May 2 2013, 3:04pm
Post #14 of 52
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he just showed up for the Erebor Rocky Smashy Disco Party.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 2 2013, 5:09pm
Post #15 of 52
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That wasn't the impression I had
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I studied eastern Mediterranean archaeology, and from that learned that rulers in the ancient world often visited each other. Some did pay tribute, but this was certainly not always the case (they would have had a lot to discuss with each other, e.g. trade, intermarriage between royalty, common foe, and other issues).
In the film, I didn't see any indication of actual payment of tribute to Thror by Thranduil, only that Thranduil was made out to be somehow subordinate to Thror because he did not have the great wealth of the Dwarves.
Did you see that Thranduil was paying tribute to Thror, as a matter of interest? (It may have been something I missed.)
I did think Thranduil was paying tribute to ThrorWasn´t he?? |
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
May 2 2013, 5:12pm
Post #16 of 52
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I think they are dwarf children, Bomby
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unless maybe they're adventuresome hobbits--Tooks, perhaps? Too bad we can't see their feet! And do they have beards?? Don't tell anyone, but I also think **whispering** they look suspiciously like plastic figurines. Sshh! Don't let the secret out!
Seriously, though, I wish we could have seen more of dwarf children. We only get to see one as the dwarves flee Erebor, and we can't even see his face!  Maybe in the EE.
"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 2 2013, 6:11pm
Post #17 of 52
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Seriously, though, I wish we could have seen more of dwarf children. We only get to see one as the dwarves flee Erebor, and we can't even see his face! Maybe in the EE.
There is a Dwarf-woman directly behind the figure carrying the child. I presume that this may be the child's mother (with no time or opportunity to change into gender-neutral traveling clothes).
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
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Esmeralda
Bree
May 2 2013, 8:04pm
Post #18 of 52
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surfaces of Erebor looked like malachite. So pretty <sigh>.
As for the 'windows', remember the tomb of Balin in Moria. Deep within the mine, a light-well had been created to allow sunlight to shine on his tomb. The Great Pyramids also have small passages constructed so the light of a sacred star will reach into the deepest chamber on a particular day and time. Mirrors can also be used to direct light from one place to another in an elaborate sequence. I suspect the dwarves had many clever devices to get light where they wanted it.
It would be interesting living in a place that was as immense vertically as horizontally. Perhaps the level at which you lived was as significant and traditional as your family name. I expect they had groupings that were similar to villages and towns. Did they have competing football leagues, you think? :)
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DanielLB
Immortal
May 2 2013, 8:12pm
Post #19 of 52
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Mirrors are a rubbish way of reflecting light
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They're a good reflective surface to see how pretty one is, but they're not very good at reflecting light, for many reasons. Impurities in the glass mean that most of the light is absorbed, and transformed into heat. Any light that is reflected is diffuse. After reflecting after one or two mirrors, the brightness of the light is probably equivalent to one lit candle. It is a very inefficient method and is not a very good way of directing light at all. You can get the same effect by simply using a pure white piece of paper.
I really hope they don't use this method, since it's physically impossible. Much prefer the idea of stone windows.
(This post was edited by DanielLB on May 2 2013, 8:14pm)
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Starling
Half-elven
May 2 2013, 8:52pm
Post #20 of 52
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Perhaps people are using different definitions here
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It seems to me that you are using the traditional definition of paying tribute. Perhaps others are seeing 'paying tribute' as simply an acknowlegement, rather than a formal payment or giving of gifts.
I don't want to make assumptions about what others are thinking, this might be the reason for people seeing the scene differently.
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Brethil
Half-elven
May 2 2013, 9:54pm
Post #21 of 52
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I always thought of it similar to the Fremen of Arrakis
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with "apartments" carved out of the rock, going high up into the walls, each having its own door and being its own space. Love how elegant Erebor is pictured to be, and from that lovely cap (Thanks R-D!) it seems like there is that type of dwelling - maybe the windows are on the anterooms/foyers, so no need for privacy, and other quarters are deeper in. I always thought the Royal suite might be on the front with a balcony and light from there coming in. Lots of fur spreads in there.
Main possibly communal kitchens below, with perhaps water running from stream sources if they are below grade? Potentially a higher source of running water, used at certain times of day and centrally controlled, could exist if a reservoir is built on the upper part of the Mountain and sluices are cut into the rock. As much as fire must be a daily part of life (for light) maybe our Erebor Dwarves are the first to invent the fabulous thing called the Hot Tub...now THAT"S a nice thought.  
The ceilings probably do get a bit sooty...could have a central 'space' in the top of the developed area for smoke to gather, and small vent tunnels excavated to prevent rain in but to let smoke out.
Lovely topic to ponder. All day long.
Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."
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imin
Valinor
May 2 2013, 10:04pm
Post #22 of 52
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I think it would depend on the mirror. My dad works with lasers and they have mirrors in them which he says are practically fully reflective - in the region of 99.999+%
Maybe the dwarves had high technological levels in regards to mirrors? lol
Or maybe just windows as you say :P
And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.
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Glorfindela
Valinor
May 2 2013, 10:06pm
Post #23 of 52
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I was thinking of 'paying tribute' in terms of actually paying in physical wealth, whereas the scene I saw involved paying homage, or something like that…
It seems to me that you are using the traditional definition of paying tribute. Perhaps others are seeing 'paying tribute' as simply an acknowlegement, rather than a formal payment or giving of gifts.
I don't want to make assumptions about what others are thinking, this might be the reason for people seeing the scene differently.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on May 2 2013, 10:08pm)
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marillaraina
Rohan
May 2 2013, 11:39pm
Post #24 of 52
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The picture that gives "height perspective" kind of reminds me of a Dwarven Coruscant. :)
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Esmeralda
Bree
May 3 2013, 1:29am
Post #25 of 52
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Perhaps a micron-thick coating
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of mithril? The Cirth Ithil glows in moonlight, so they knew how to create mystical light sources.
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