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SCOD - Meanwhile, back at the Entmoot

Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 29 2013, 1:44pm

Post #1 of 12 (459 views)
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SCOD - Meanwhile, back at the Entmoot Can't Post

Treebeard...



and the Ents

have agreed

...that

*harooom*

Merry and Pippin

*harooom*

are ... not



Orcs.

***********
Some thoughts for discussion Smile

1. What did you think of the switching back and forth between the intense action scenes of Helm's Deep and the Ent-paced moments with Merry and Pippin?
2. If you first watched the films way back when they were first released, and you watch them again now, do you have the same or different opinion now as you did then of the Entmoot scenes and/or Helm's Deep and/or the way they were interwoven?
3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth?
4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this?

Thanks for viewing, and all comments are welcome, not limited to only the above questions Smile.


Nuradar
Rohan


Apr 29 2013, 5:34pm

Post #2 of 12 (283 views)
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I grew less interested in the Entmoot scene [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What did you think of the switching back and forth between the intense action scenes of Helm's Deep and the Ent-paced moments with Merry and Pippin?

I really liked it at first. Merry's face in this shot is terrific. He's run out of patience, and I think it shows a part of him we can all relate to.

2. If you first watched the films way back when they were first released, and you watch them again now, do you have the same or different opinion now as you did then of the Entmoot scenes and/or Helm's Deep and/or the way they were interwoven?


I started off admiring how PJ was able to intertwine the scences. But the more I watch the movies, the less interested I am in the Entmoot scene. In fact, the last 2 or 3 times I've watched them, I've skipped forward those parts. However, I do still admire the moon-lighting in the Entmoot shots. It's a silvery-blue that's very unusual and makes it feel like a true fantasy film.

3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth?

I think switching back to the Entmoot scene in the middle of the Battle at Helm's Deep makes the story slower, and I imagine PJ did this on purpose - to accentuate the slowness of the Ents.

4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this?


No idea, but I do think it's amusing.


batik
Tol Eressea


Apr 29 2013, 10:06pm

Post #3 of 12 (239 views)
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hmmm...ah...well... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What did you think of the switching back and forth between the intense action scenes of Helm's Deep and the Ent-paced moments with Merry and Pippin?
TTT ran on SyFy channel yesterday and I was able to catch some bits and pieces. Heh--my viewing was interwoven with a nap and getting the laundry done. So...

2. If you first watched the films way back when they were first released, and you watch them again now, do you have the same or different opinion now as you did then of the Entmoot scenes and/or Helm's Deep and/or the way they were interwoven?
Let's see--M&P were good to watch during the Entmoot scenes and still are (he actors' abilities to be comical while showing growth--that's a win!); Helm's Deep--I almost always get into the battle scene to some degree; I am sure I don't pay *as much* attention to the switching back and forth now as then (back in the day I was enthralled).
3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth?
From flying arrows to deep roots---all would have a role in this. (Excuse my pun!)

4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this?
The un-named? Unknown? How much contact do Men vs. Orcs have with the Ents? Association, I suppose.


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 30 2013, 12:24am

Post #4 of 12 (260 views)
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Entmooting going on... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

1. What did you think of the switching back and forth between the intense action scenes of Helm's Deep and the Ent-paced moments with Merry and Pippin? I felt like it emphasized the ancientness of the Ents. They have seen so much already - nothing is new to them.
2. If you first watched the films way back when they were first released, and you watch them again now, do you have the same or different opinion now as you did then of the Entmoot scenes and/or Helm's Deep and/or the way they were interwoven? I enjoy it more now. In the beginning I was too anxious for seeing the next parts at Helm's Deep. Now I enjoy all the little details more.
3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth? That is isn't just a Humanoid battle. Nature itself has to join in, to save itself; but its a force so many don't even understand!
4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this? Fear about the harm Orcs have done, and afraid that they have taken other forms?

Thanks for viewing, and all comments are welcome, not limited to only the above questions Smile.Great caps Loresilme. I also like how Merry really stands up and shows his courage and conviction for his friends, even faced with such huge, imposing Ents who might not agree with him.


Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."

(This post was edited by Brethil on Apr 30 2013, 12:25am)


Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 30 2013, 12:59pm

Post #5 of 12 (202 views)
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Surprisingly, when I watched TTT [In reply to] Can't Post

with Mr. Loresilme, the Ents were his favorite characters. I was surprised because he is definitely Not A Fantasy Fan, so I expected the Ents, of all things - walking, talking trees! - to be the most glaring fantasy-ish thing he would *not* like. But it turned out he loved the idea that trees could be these ancient, wise beings with their unusual manner of speaking. Go figure :-). And he also was really rooting for them (ha ha, I made a pun! :-)) in the Isengard scene later on.

______________________
I started off admiring how PJ was able to intertwine the scences. But the more I watch the movies, the less interested I am in the Entmoot scene. In fact, the last 2 or 3 times I've watched them, I've skipped forward those parts. However, I do still admire the moon-lighting in the Entmoot shots. It's a silvery-blue that's very unusual and makes it feel like a true fantasy film.
____________________

I have a similar perspective on it. It depends on what mood I'm in, or how much time I have. I also like the 'look' of the scenes, how faery-story and magical it is, in such contrast to the gritty realism of the Helm's Deep battle, so sometimes I really like to just sit back and be part of that world. Other times I have to fast forward through them. Sometimes there just isn't enough time to watch all 3+ hours!




Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 30 2013, 1:13pm

Post #6 of 12 (208 views)
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The battle scenes [In reply to] Can't Post

_______________________
Helm's Deep--I almost always get into the battle scene to some degree;
___________________

I find I get so engrossed in the Helm's Deep battle, I forget entirely about the other characters, lol. So when the scenes cut back to Merry and Pippin, I always have a moment of disorientation. That happens to me in ROTK during the Battle of the Pellenor Fields too.


_____________________
Heh--my viewing was interwoven with a nap and getting the laundry done. So...
_____________________

You're good, lol! I can't get anything else done while I'm watching them - I end up sitting down "to just watch this one scene", and then.... I end up watching the entire thing. But I bet you could get several loads and even the ironing done during just one film :-).





Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 30 2013, 1:41pm

Post #7 of 12 (191 views)
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The ongoing battle [In reply to] Can't Post

3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth?
That is isn't just a Humanoid battle. Nature itself has to join in, to save itself; but its a force so many don't even understand!

___________________________________________

I find that too, that when I get caught up in the gritty realism of the Helm's Deep, and then the films brings me back to the Ents, it's a reminder that the struggle for Middle-earth isn't just about people slugging it out in a grimy, muddy big mundane battle, it's larger than that - like the Ents, the struggle is primordial.

___________________________________________
4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this?
Fear about the harm Orcs have done, and afraid that they have taken other forms?

___________________________________________

I'd imagine that would be it, because the Ents must have been familiar with what Orcs looked like since they mention how they come into their woods. So it must be that the damage the Orcs were doing was so top of mind, that the first thing they would think of when faced with some type of new being, would be that they were more Orcs.

________________________________________________
I also like how Merry really stands up and shows his courage and conviction for his friends, even faced with such huge, imposing Ents who might not agree with him.
__________________________________________

So true! The Hobbits are so brave, it's easy to forget how tiny they are and how much more impressive their courage is in light of that :-).


One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Apr 30 2013, 3:14pm

Post #8 of 12 (198 views)
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It's always rather jarring to me, [In reply to] Can't Post

Not in a bad way, by any means, but to come to a sudden halt right in the midst of battle is peculiar. While it does come out of left field, it serves as a sort of reality check to me. In many ways it reminds me of government action in the real world; the contrasts between fighting a war on the front lines and from behind a desk.

Stigmata Script, a bastion for aspiring writers - http://stigmatascript.com/

"You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Ah, it is the fault of our science that it wants to explain all; and if it explain not, then it says there is nothing to explain."


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 30 2013, 3:34pm

Post #9 of 12 (210 views)
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The Last of the Fey [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What did you think of the switching back and forth between the intense action scenes of Helm's Deep and the Ent-paced moments with Merry and Pippin?

Very nice. The pauses let the audience catch their breath so they don’t get exhausted from continuous action. Plus it allows the battle to leap forward over various stages of the fighting so the action doesn’t drag. Finally, it does give a new burst of adrenaline each time the film explodes with action as it returns to Helm’s Deep. Basically rather than by a slowly ascending slope, the climax builds through a series of steps.


2. If you first watched the films way back when they were first released, and you watch them again now, do you have the same or different opinion now as you did then of the Entmoot scenes and/or Helm's Deep and/or the way they were interwoven?

Each time I can see more parallels, like with the Gandalf/Theoden debate watched by the passionate Aragorn and the eating/drinking distracted Gimli versus the Treebeard/Ent debate watched by the passionate Merry and the clueless Pippin.

And of course this is setting up the parallel moments of realization and resolve of the two leaders, where Theoden leads a seemingly suicidal last charge of the Rohirrim, and Treebeard leads a seemingly suicidal last march of the Ents. Very nice!


3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth?

The Entmoot is the last glimpse of Faerie we’ll have in the films. After this it’s all the World of Men. A really sad moment though we don’t realize it yet. Even though it ends in victory, there’s far more loss here than we realize at first. After this Man is truly on his own.


4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this?

Proud daddy Grishnákh took his two kids out in the woods for some hide and seek play that, as often happens with orcs, spiraled a bit out of control. The question is, where is Momma Grishnákh to call for a stop whenever the roughhousing turns murderous?

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Loresilme
Valinor


May 2 2013, 12:38pm

Post #10 of 12 (148 views)
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Decisions made from behind a desk [In reply to] Can't Post

At least in these lengthy discussions, they came to the right decision and course of action. Would that all meetings and committees were filled with such wisdom of the Ents :-).


Loresilme
Valinor


May 2 2013, 1:01pm

Post #11 of 12 (152 views)
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Orc toddlers [In reply to] Can't Post

Proud daddy Grishnákh took his two kids out in the woods for some hide and seek play that, as often happens with orcs, spiraled a bit out of control.
*****************************

Aha, that could be it!




And welcome back, Darkstone! Good to see you again :-).


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 4 2013, 5:28pm

Post #12 of 12 (144 views)
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:) hehe [In reply to] Can't Post

1. What did you think of the switching back and forth between the intense action scenes of Helm's Deep and the Ent-paced moments with Merry and Pippin?

Nice, also sometimes pretty infuriating!! Pretty clever, it sometimes felt like I wanted to get out there and try myself to get the Ents aroused to action haha.

2. If you first watched the films way back when they were first released, and you watch them again now, do you have the same or different opinion now as you did then of the Entmoot scenes and/or Helm's Deep and/or the way they were interwoven?

Hmm, I think more well of them now than I did when I first watched it.... being a younger kid, I just wanted to see some more awesome Helms Deep fighting!! Wink

3. What does the contrast in settings and action (Helms Deep vs Entmoot) say about the overall battle to save Middle-earth?

It speaks volumes really. It's everything that's at stake here. So important that things that have been lumbering around for centuries if not millenia have to be awoken.

4. Although Merry and Pippin don't look or act to us anything like Orcs, to the Ents there is a possibility they are little Orcs. What reason(s) would they have for thinking this?

They have utterly no clue about Hobbits. Apart from that... well they are quite the rapscallions aren't they Tongue

Thanks for this Loresilme, great fun!! Cool


"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________



 
 

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