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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Rivendell before the "Fall"

dijomaja
Lorien

Apr 27 2013, 11:20am

Post #1 of 14 (1007 views)
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Rivendell before the "Fall" Can't Post

One of the, well, unexpected treats in AUJ was the chance to see Rivendell in what must have been full Summer. In the film version of LOTR, not only were the leaves falling but the atmosphere was autumnal - none of the music or feasting described in the book. As with film-LOTR, I wish they'd cut a few hours out of the chases, battles, etc. and let us hang around enjoying M-e a bit longer but that probably wouldn't have suited modern movie audiences. As it is, I'm glad they let us hang around the Shire and Rivendell as long as they did.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Apr 27 2013, 12:33pm

Post #2 of 14 (523 views)
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i always thought [In reply to] Can't Post

 
that the rivendell scenes in lotr were meant to represent not just the physical season of middle earth, but the temporal season of the elves' time in middle earth.

as a race, they are "leaving these shores." even as elrond speaks those words, browning leaves are floating to the ground in a slow shower of advancing, relentless change.

i, too, noticed that in thauj, we got to see rivendell's physical summer, as well as a peek at the elves in their temporal summer ('tho all of the third age was the long fall). i had been looking forward to the possibility of seeing that, and was glad it was in the film.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 27 2013, 5:48pm

Post #3 of 14 (306 views)
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Well stated Mac as usual [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
that the rivendell scenes in lotr were meant to represent not just the physical season of middle earth, but the temporal season of the elves' time in middle earth.

as a race, they are "leaving these shores." even as elrond speaks those words, browning leaves are floating to the ground in a slow shower of advancing, relentless change.

i, too, noticed that in thauj, we got to see rivendell's physical summer, as well as a peek at the elves in their temporal summer ('tho all of the third age was the long fall). i had been looking forward to the possibility of seeing that, and was glad it was in the film.

.




Indeed true, I too think there is a deeper symbolism there, both in the 'springlike' feeling and appearance of AUJ Rivendell as well as the change in the humor of its master from each time segment As you point out from a time standpoint it is tightly compacted into more of a mortal-perceived span, as the Age did indeed represent a slow Fall into oblivion for both remaining Elf kingdoms. I am sure the Lothlorien of AUJ time would look a bit different too, from that same philosophical idea - more green and growing, less falling leaves.

That is why I loved the AUJ Rivendell quite a lot as well. Angelic

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Ardamr
Valinor


Apr 27 2013, 6:33pm

Post #4 of 14 (315 views)
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Rivendell's progression [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what I said back in December:


Quote
It could be, as you said, the Elves in their hey-day before their fading. I think that would show a good progression throughout all six films. By the time we get to FOTR, the colors are much more muted, and the Elves are fewer and farther between. Then in TTT, the colors are even drearier - blues and browns mostly - and a whole host of Elves departs. Finally, in ROTK, nearly everything is brown and Rivendell has an almost dead look to it. Nearly all the Elves are gone; we only see Elrond and two smiths, and the whole place looks deserted. If this is the case, I'll be very pleased, as it will only serve to enhance the theme of the fading of the Elves and the changing of the world at the end of the Third Age.


I think the very Spring-like nature of Rivendell in AUJ was wonderful. I wonder if we'll see it again at all in either of the next two films.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 27 2013, 6:42pm

Post #5 of 14 (282 views)
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Evolution and revisiting of Rivendell [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This is what I said back in December:


Quote
It could be, as you said, the Elves in their hey-day before their fading. I think that would show a good progression throughout all six films. By the time we get to FOTR, the colors are much more muted, and the Elves are fewer and farther between. Then in TTT, the colors are even drearier - blues and browns mostly - and a whole host of Elves departs. Finally, in ROTK, nearly everything is brown and Rivendell has an almost dead look to it. Nearly all the Elves are gone; we only see Elrond and two smiths, and the whole place looks deserted. If this is the case, I'll be very pleased, as it will only serve to enhance the theme of the fading of the Elves and the changing of the world at the end of the Third Age.


I think the very Spring-like nature of Rivendell in AUJ was wonderful. I wonder if we'll see it again at all in either of the next two films.




Nicely said in your Dec. post there Ardamire! I am guessing we may see more of the Spring Rivendell on the return journey, especially if we are to be shown the inscription of Sting and (this I am SO dearly hoping for) Elrond lending Bilbo a handkerchief. I think it should still be a Spring look, but I wonder how it will be done onscreen - the Ring has been found, but it is still passive...and we have a sixty-year span (granted a compaction) for it to become more of the FOTR Rivendell, with the colors more muted and some scattered leaves falling (like we see in the Council scene). So maybe still Spring, if we see it again?

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Ardamr
Valinor


Apr 27 2013, 6:46pm

Post #6 of 14 (277 views)
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Natural Spring lighting [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm hoping to see more Spring Rivendell, but without all the fantastical sunsets/sunrises. I think the perfect next step is just a natural spring glow, if you know what I mean.

Oooh, I'd like to see Sting get it's inscription, too!

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 27 2013, 6:50pm

Post #7 of 14 (305 views)
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I just watched AUJ again last night, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think the very Spring-like nature of Rivendell in AUJ was wonderful. I wonder if we'll see it again at all in either of the next two films.

and i too really like the portrayal of Rivendell in the film, and especially Elrond. The contrast we see as compared to the Rivendell of the LotR films is, as you say, wonderful. I just wish we'd gotten to see more (which apparently will be the case with the release of the EE), and i hope there's at least a little bit more in the next two films.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Apr 27 2013, 6:52pm)


Ardamr
Valinor


Apr 27 2013, 7:04pm

Post #8 of 14 (280 views)
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Totally forgot [In reply to] Can't Post

About the extra Rivendell scenes for the EE. I'm so looking forward to them!

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


elaen32
Gondor

Apr 27 2013, 8:54pm

Post #9 of 14 (254 views)
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One thing I puzzle over... [In reply to] Can't Post

re Elrond lending Bilbo a handkerchief. How comes Elrond has a supply handy? Surely Elves don't get colds or rhinitis!?? Or are they just a service provision for any poor weakling mortals who might pass through LOL?

More seriously, I too love the changes in Rivendell throughout the films, although I do think that in ROTK it is a little too deserted. Very convenient that the smiths happened to have stayed behind! But, I suppose it adds emphasis to the drama and I don't really object to it (although I'm not fond of the "Arwen leaving" plotline). It's such a shame that they didn't shoot any Rivendell scenes on location at Kaitoke for The Hobbit. I spent a happy couple of hours there in 2006 when I visited and it was so beautiful and peaceful, which I feel did come over in FOTR especially.

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 27 2013, 9:43pm

Post #10 of 14 (281 views)
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Darned mortals: never enough handkerchiefs. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
re Elrond lending Bilbo a handkerchief. How comes Elrond has a supply handy? Surely Elves don't get colds or rhinitis!?? Or are they just a service provision for any poor weakling mortals who might pass through LOL?

More seriously, I too love the changes in Rivendell throughout the films, although I do think that in ROTK it is a little too deserted. Very convenient that the smiths happened to have stayed behind! But, I suppose it adds emphasis to the drama and I don't really object to it (although I'm not fond of the "Arwen leaving" plotline). It's such a shame that they didn't shoot any Rivendell scenes on location at Kaitoke for The Hobbit. I spent a happy couple of hours there in 2006 when I visited and it was so beautiful and peaceful, which I feel did come over in FOTR especially.




(Haha!!! Yeah, those grubby clueless mortals tramping all over the place, finding the Valley by accident, not even a handkerchief on hand...)Smile

The handkerchief though is such a personal touch, that's why I hope we see it! One of the things I loved so much in ROTK and really made me think that the team 'got' Bilbo and Elrond is that shot of Elrond smiling so tenderly and opening his arms to Bilbo to join him in the ship...so I would love to see the little touches in their friendship that gets us to there. Am hoping for some EE footage of them as well, because from that shot we've seen of Bilbo exploring and finding Narsil to the "show him the map" scene (which Bilbo might not be invited along for), so I am hoping the bridge is that Bilbo has some time with Elrond before Gandalf and the Dwarves show up to talk.

I wonder if the smiths were left at the end because of the grimness of it all - keep your weapons sharp 'til the last Elf leaves...I would is Sauron were creeping (staring?) around!

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 27 2013, 10:00pm

Post #11 of 14 (231 views)
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Don't forget the Rangers! [In reply to] Can't Post

Rivendell was Aragorn's home for his early life, and I'm sure other Dunedain came and went as well. So I would imagine Elrond was used to (and well prepared for) mortal guests.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



elaen32
Gondor

Apr 27 2013, 10:10pm

Post #12 of 14 (272 views)
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Hotel Imladris [In reply to] Can't Post

I can imagine some sort of bath house block on the periphery of Rivendell where all the muddy, dirty, smelly Rangers (and others) are sent first on arrival. They need to be a bit more fragrant to enter the Elven Halls proper!!Wink I had forgotten the Rangers, but Elrond would have welcomed them too. Rivendell was always more open to other races than the other Elven domains. I would prefer to live there than Lothlorien, but see that I have just passed into the hallowed borders of the latter realm!

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


alienorchid
Lorien


Apr 28 2013, 8:58am

Post #13 of 14 (161 views)
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I also love that shot of Elrond's open arms [In reply to] Can't Post

because I feel like in the movies (and somewhat in the book) most friendships between hobbits and people of other races are a little bit condescending? Like, playful little child-like Hobbits vs very serious Big Folk.

However, I think that since Bilbo spent so much time in Rivendell, he would have talked to Elrond a great deal and forged a genuine friendship, from one lore-master to another.


Yngwulff
Gondor


Apr 28 2013, 9:01am

Post #14 of 14 (149 views)
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Aragorn ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Brushing the dead leaves off the weaher stained effigy/grave of his mother showed the decay as well


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

 
 

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