Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Like or Dislike the idea of the High Fells ?!
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

NoelGallagher
Rohan

Apr 25 2013, 8:17pm

Post #1 of 62 (1390 views)
Shortcut
Like or Dislike the idea of the High Fells ?! Can't Post

Since ive read in most of the forums more "hate" for this invented scene i really would be interested in how this forum is thinking about that sequence.

Actually i agree with PJ that it would have definitely "Tolkien-esque"character. And it seems that it was added to "stretch" the explaination the Necromancer/Dol Guldur Subplot,which is a good idea to me.
Pieces of the scene that weve in the sneak-peak looked amazing, i really like the tension and the dark/mysterious feeling about it. Of course, Gandalfs acting is brilliant..only Radagast looks a bit out of place.

My theory is that we will see that scene right after the company leaving Beorn and Gandalf will visit the Tombs in "real time". I dont think PJ needs to explain were exactly they are located and to be honest, most of the audience wont be interested in.
For a prologue it seems the scene is to slow and doesnt refer to anything concerning the dwarves journey.I dont have an explaination why it wont be a flashback, its just my feeling :)

So now its your turn...

You like the idea of it ?
You like what weve seen so far ?
Your theories we it will be placed in DoS ?

Best regards ;)


Glorfindela
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 9:24pm

Post #2 of 62 (605 views)
Shortcut
I find it intriguing [In reply to] Can't Post

And like what I have seen so far.

The scene looked truly spooky, and I am very interested in Radagast's part in it (he is a character who has grown on me).

I've really no idea where it will be placed, but it seems as though this story arc may be an important part of the film. Smile


lurtz2010
Rohan

Apr 25 2013, 9:36pm

Post #3 of 62 (578 views)
Shortcut
I like it [In reply to] Can't Post

I love all the morgul blade, nazgul tombs stuff. I've seen people say it ruins the story and they call it fan fiction but I think it's awesome fan fiction, Tolkien would've been proud.

I do think the high fells could've been left in AUJ though since the DolGuldur storyline is set up so much then just ends completely after the white council.


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Apr 25 2013, 10:11pm

Post #4 of 62 (546 views)
Shortcut
well, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I do think the high fells could've been left in AUJ though since the DolGuldur storyline is set up so much then just ends completely after the white council.

It was meant to be placed while the dwarves go over the mountain and until they get captured by the goblins

Vocalist in the progressive metal band Renamed.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 25 2013, 10:41pm

Post #5 of 62 (534 views)
Shortcut
To quote a song of my own making, I am passionately ambivalent. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the High Fells scene will be very interesting, creepy, and not without charm once Radagast enters. I think it is a good scene of Gandalf on one of his many great journeys and investigations, going where others dare not. Yet I HATE how inaccurate the details are. . . the Nazgul in tombs, the warping of the history of Minas Ithil to Morgul that might result from such a thing, the disrespect and disregard of Glorfindel AGAIN, the complete glossing over of the role Rivendell, Gondor and Lindon played in the final wars against Angmar. . . all of those things are outrageous to me.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 25 2013, 10:42pm

Post #6 of 62 (574 views)
Shortcut
Tolkien could be VERY prickly about details. Rewriting the wars of The North, [In reply to] Can't Post

putting the Nazgul in tombs when they were supposed to have been seizing Minas Ithil, leaving Gondor and The Elves unspoken in the wars of Arnor and Angmar, are all things that probably would have distempered him rather badly.

In Reply To
I love all the morgul blade, nazgul tombs stuff. I've seen people say it ruins the story and they call it fan fiction but I think it's awesome fan fiction, Tolkien would've been proud.

I do think the high fells could've been left in AUJ though since the DolGuldur storyline is set up so much then just ends completely after the white council.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Apr 25 2013, 11:43pm

Post #7 of 62 (516 views)
Shortcut
From what I've seen and heard [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it looks pretty good, Gandalf doing what he does best in a very grim looking place. Radaghast seems deliberately out of place, like he doesn't remember how he got there which is pretty interesting but it could just be him "acting up".

Yes, my username is terrible.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Apr 26 2013, 12:45am

Post #8 of 62 (515 views)
Shortcut
Aren't the High Fells [In reply to] Can't Post

In Colorado, USA?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



lurtz2010
Rohan

Apr 26 2013, 1:23am

Post #9 of 62 (468 views)
Shortcut
it's good for the movieverse though don't you think? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the tomb thing is a perfect prequel/backstory for the nazgul we know from the lotr films.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 26 2013, 1:26am

Post #10 of 62 (476 views)
Shortcut
Wary as i am about mucking about with Tolkien's history, [In reply to] Can't Post

i do think the scene at the end of the Sneak Peek looked pretty darned great, very moody and spooky, and the images i've seen from one of the books of the High Fells and the entrance to the tombs was awesome. So i remain cautiously optimistic.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Apr 26 2013, 1:38am

Post #11 of 62 (459 views)
Shortcut
so was the high fells scene filmed in Colorado then? [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting...

I don't recall PJ or anyone else mentioning that. I thought it was all done in NZ with some Saruman and old Bilbo scenes in UK. You'd think that they would just build a new set for the high fells in their studio instead of going all the way to Colorado Crazy

I must research this some more, thanks for the infoSmile


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Apr 26 2013, 2:59am

Post #12 of 62 (437 views)
Shortcut
I think Andy Serkis shot that stuff second unit.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Apr 26 2013, 4:22am

Post #13 of 62 (469 views)
Shortcut
I have only one issue with the scene. [In reply to] Can't Post

First of all, I haven't seen the scene because I want to keep myself as much spoiler free "visually" as possible (probably with the exception of the trailer).

Anyway, from the description I have heard the scene's pretty tense and can work well. And I do hope it does.

But there is one huge error. How can Nazguls be in "tombs"? Tombs are for dead people. But the Nazguls have been active and "alive" since their origins. The fact is they are not dead enough to be buried. And this creates another big contradiction with Aragorn's "they are neither living nor dead" from FOTR.

I'd not mind if they had called it something besides a "tomb". Something which makes more sense.

Besides that, even though it goes highly against Tolkien-canon, I can "get over" it like I did with the Frodo-Sam quarrel.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 26 2013, 5:41am

Post #14 of 62 (448 views)
Shortcut
An explanation for the movie adaptation: [In reply to] Can't Post

For the movie adaptation, they can explain the Nazgul tombs in the High Fells and keep everything consistent with the LOTR movies as follows: the Witch King and his eight followers were mortal men, and after they were defeated and killed, their bodies were (to quote Galadriel in AUJ) taken "by the Men of the North" and placed in tombs "in the High Fells of Rhudaur", in tombs so dark they would never see the light of day, tombs that were protected by powerful spells. However, now the power of the Necromancer has released them from their tombs, in effect resurrecting these men as undead wraiths, a.k.a. the Nazgul. So in effect, the Nazgul as such in the movies are not that old, they have only relatively recently been created by Sauron in his guise as the Necromancer.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



Smeagol Bagginsess
Rivendell


Apr 26 2013, 6:02am

Post #15 of 62 (424 views)
Shortcut
That creates inconsistencies as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

A) I think we have already seen the witch-King's spirit in AUJ.
B) The nine men were NEVER killed. Even in FOTR (movie) , it's said that they were corrupted and NOT killed. i.e. They are not dead.
C) Did Minas Ithil turn to Minas Morgul by itself?
D) I am well with minor changes. And I have ignored some major changes as well. But if PJ keeps taking so much liberties and create his own LOTR-fan film (if the Nazguls are indeed depicted as you say ), then I refuse to pay the money. I want to see Tolkien's works in the films not PJ's.

All in all, your explanation doesn't make very good sense. It's purely an error to call them "tombs". "Prisons" can work fine ( though I think PJ won't find it very snazzy).



In Reply To
For the movie adaptation, they can explain the Nazgul tombs in the High Fells and keep everything consistent with the LOTR movies as follows: the Witch King and his eight followers were mortal men, and after they were defeated and killed, their bodies were (to quote Galadriel in AUJ) taken "by the Men of the North" and placed in tombs "in the High Fells of Rhudaur", in tombs so dark they would never see the light of day, tombs that were protected by powerful spells. However, now the power of the Necromancer has released them from their tombs, in effect resurrecting these men as undead wraiths, a.k.a. the Nazgul. So in effect, the Nazgul as such in the movies are not that old, they have only relatively recently been created by Sauron in his guise as the Necromancer.



Escapist
Gondor


Apr 26 2013, 6:11am

Post #16 of 62 (407 views)
Shortcut
Speaking of necromancy [In reply to] Can't Post

who's doing the dirty work, then to bring the old goat back and take up the task of teaching him the art of movie making?

EvilAngelic


emre43
Lorien

Apr 26 2013, 6:46am

Post #17 of 62 (398 views)
Shortcut
I like the scene. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien didn't describe the Dol Guldur sub-plot so why not? It doesn't bother me in the slightest whether they edit Tolkien history. All historians write history in their own way, doesn't make one right and another wrong, just shows their own interpretation of events.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 26 2013, 6:48am

Post #18 of 62 (389 views)
Shortcut
This. How can something with no body be buried??? [In reply to] Can't Post

  
The whole idea of Nazgul in tombs contradicts the Prologue in FotR where we saw the nine kings of old being given the rings by Annatar, which would prevent them dying, and turn them into the Ringwraiths... Yes, I suppose their spirits could have been "imprisoned", but would the Dunedain have had the powers to do that???

Instead, we have PJ's script rewriting thousands of years of M-e history - Third Age 1300: Nazgl reappear in Middle-earth, the kingdom of Angmar first appears at Arthedain's north-eastern border, built by the Witch-king, later revealed as Lord of the Nazgl. This sort of change goes beyond simply "adapting the book..."


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 26 2013, 6:51am

Post #19 of 62 (399 views)
Shortcut
Only with the books, not the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

You must remember, the movie adaptations are made to be stand-alone creations, they are not the books. To answer your concerns:

A) No problem at all with seeing the Witch-King as an undead wraith in AUJ-- as I said, their resurrection by the Necromancer has already happened by AUJ's timeline.

B) Again, no problem: we can easily suppose (movies) that the nine men were killed in the past. Nothing in the LOTR movies says that they weren't dead at some point; the rings corrupted them as living men, but they could still die and be put into tombs. Only later (movie) were they resurrected by the Necromancer as the Ringwraiths. That is what a "necromancer" does, brings back the dead.

C) There is no Minas Ithil in the movies-- all we ever heard in the LOTR movies was Minas Morgul, and we were never told how or when the Nazgul came there. We thus have 60 years between The Hobbit and FOTR for them to set up shop there.

D) Aw, see it anyway. Wink

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 26 2013, 6:53am

Post #20 of 62 (396 views)
Shortcut
No, Tolkien didn't describe the assault on Dol Guldur... [In reply to] Can't Post

That is fair game - but he did describe the activities of the Nazgul from when they first appeared in M-e in 3rd Age 1300 through to the destruction of Barad-dur at the end of RotK.

PJ apparently wants to condense the history of M-e into anything between 60 and 400 years!!!!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 26 2013, 6:57am

Post #21 of 62 (388 views)
Shortcut
i think this is premature [In reply to] Can't Post

this is like asking everyone what they think of riddles in the dark before AUJ was released. Nobody (unless your involved in production) has seen the High Fells sequence, all we saw in the DOS sneak peak was a snippet of the scene. I don't think anyone who hasn't seen the scene in its entirety can say they like or dislike it. Personally i think it will be a great scene.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 26 2013, 7:04am

Post #22 of 62 (380 views)
Shortcut
I am caught in the middle... [In reply to] Can't Post

... on the one hand this idea of this dark place with the broken "prison cells" is really creepy (in a good way), especially when one remembers the terror they unleash in LotR.

But, of course, the problem is that the Nazgul where doing "important stuff" after the fall of Angmar and the War of the Ring. Especially the Minas Morgul - Minas Tirith "competition" is lost by changing the timeline like that.

Them being dead, undead or something in between while buried is something I could make sense of in my mind and would not be bothered with, though.

I guess it like the Sam/Frodo fight in RotK: if it is well exercised and I have the feeling that it gave the regular moviegoer a really good story-arc (plus at least hinting the more ancient history of Middle-earth that some might then want to check out), I am willing to accept it.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 26 2013, 7:05am

Post #23 of 62 (375 views)
Shortcut
you can still bury a undead body... [In reply to] Can't Post

its just like burying a body which hasn't died, the only difference is the undead body cannot die in the tomb you put him in so its more like a prison. Btw, it doesn't contradict the FOTR prologue at all, that was simply explaining the origins of the Nine. -It wasn't a prologue about the nazgul, it was a prologue about Sauron and his ring.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Apr 26 2013, 7:09am

Post #24 of 62 (370 views)
Shortcut
It was an attempt at humor.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Apr 26 2013, 7:10am)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Apr 26 2013, 7:21am

Post #25 of 62 (365 views)
Shortcut
I know [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just trolling the troll

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.