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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
epic fail for the hobbit!
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boldog
Rohan


Apr 24 2013, 8:39am

Post #1 of 37 (2190 views)
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epic fail for the hobbit! Can't Post

I just noticed this the other day!
this is to do with the opening scene where we see frodo and bilbo on the day of his party.
Now in the hobbit, frodo is there doing his thing, and he tells bilbo that he is going to wait for gandalf. bilbo says okay, and waves goodbye.
Now where things stuff up.
In the extended edition of the fotr, in the opening scene "concerning hobbits" bilbo is talking about hobbits. as he does this someone is knocking impatiently at the door. bilbo keeps shouting "frodo can you get the door!" eventually when the scene finishes, his patience reaches its limit and he says "wheres that boy gone to"
THERE!!
i thought he DOES know that frodo is waiting for gandalf, from what i gathered in the hobbit!
lol its probably the smallest thing but noticed by a diehard fan, and not noticed by the award winning director himselfSly

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


TheHutt
Gondor


Apr 24 2013, 8:53am

Post #2 of 37 (1074 views)
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Old news... [In reply to] Can't Post

...given that Bilbo forgot about his birthday, he might also have forgotten where Frodo is off to.

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


Shagrat
Gondor

Apr 24 2013, 8:54am

Post #3 of 37 (1023 views)
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Scatterbrain Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

There's plenty of evidence at the start of FOTR that Bilbo's behaviour has been erratic of late, and that he's become very forgetful (i.e. the whereabouts of the Ring). Let's imagine 5-6 hours have passed and he simply became so involved with his writing he just forgot where Frodo had went.

I think the film's are consistent enough for that explanation to hold weight.


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 24 2013, 8:59am

Post #4 of 37 (882 views)
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Agree with that. [In reply to] Can't Post

However, I still wished they had saved the Frodo part for the EE and cut from "In a whole in the ground..." to Freeman-Bilbo sitting outside of Bag-End in the theatrical edit.

We would have lost the very nice time-shift with the smoke-ring, but it may a) have made the beginning feel more dense for those who thought it was just padding, b) have fans still given Frodo in the EE (I do like the overall idea) and c) not confused people who are not that familiar with the LotR trilogy.


(This post was edited by Arannir on Apr 24 2013, 8:59am)


boldog
Rohan


Apr 24 2013, 9:00am

Post #5 of 37 (870 views)
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its the smallest thing [In reply to] Can't Post

i dont think anyone would really have noticed it anyway, though i like to find and point out stuff ups in moviesLaugh(even if they can be explained)

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Angharad73
Rohan


Apr 24 2013, 9:26am

Post #6 of 37 (801 views)
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This sort of thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

...happens to me maybe once a week - and I'm not even half Bilbo's age, so I can't quite blame old age yet... (I often holler for my daughter in the house, only to remember a minute later that she is outside/visiting a friend etc.) Blush

I wouldn't even register it as an inconsistency, because some people are just scatterbrained, and Bilbo strikes me as the type.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 24 2013, 9:38am

Post #7 of 37 (802 views)
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You could also take the view [In reply to] Can't Post

that he's just annoyed Frodo's taking so long. When one is expecting someone and they're extremely late, it's not unusual to say something like 'Where are they?" out of impatience rather than actually wondering about their location.

Meanwhile:
Frodo to Gandalf: "You're late!"

You could draw the conclusion that both Frodo and Bilbo expected Gandalf to show up much sooner, and that Bilbo had simply gotten engrossed in his writing and called out to Frodo to answer the door out of habit...but when the doorbell keeps ringing, he's dragged back into the present and is annoyed to find that Frodo's still not back.

"Oh sticklebacks! Where is that boy?"

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



macfalk
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 9:55am

Post #8 of 37 (861 views)
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"Epic fail". Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo is 111 years old. His memory is probably not in the best state...



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 10:36am

Post #9 of 37 (841 views)
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If you watch the two scenes next to eachother chronologically, they don't make sense... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo writes "My dear Frodo..." "...It began long ago..." "...That's where I come into the story..." and then "In a hole in the ground..." (Why would Frodo need a description of a hobbit hole?) then he sees Frodo off to meet Gandalf.

Then, after a quick smoke, he goes back to his study and says "Now, where to begin?" (but he's already begun four times!) He then starts "Concerning Hobbits" (a bit late for that? Plus, why would Frodo need a description of hobbits?) Then hears a knock - and calls for Frodo (who he knows is waiting for Gandalf). Then when Gandalf arrives Bilbo seems surprised! Crazy (If Gandalf was late, how was Bilbo still caught off-guard when he arrives? He had plenty of time to prepare food and drinks, but instead sits in his study writing)

I preferred the intro when Gandalf's arrival was apparently a secret between Frodo and Gandalf, to surprise Bilbo. (at least that's how I always viewed it?) But now it's just kind-of jarring and doesn't really make any sense.



(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 24 2013, 10:39am)


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 24 2013, 11:08am

Post #10 of 37 (755 views)
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I also suspect [In reply to] Can't Post

that if you splice the scene of Bilbo finding the ring from the LotR series into any part of the AUJ Gollum sequence, it will be similarly jarring but sensible with some explanation.

I guess that if you take any series of movies and start splicing parts into other parts and things you will get a jarring effect, actually. This is my reaction to almost all fan edits I have seen. They are jarring. They haven't gone through the same editing process. The scenes haven't been polished up and fit together the way they would have been if they had originally been scripted that way (obviously).

I don't agree that a jarring effect resulting from splicing part of AUJ into LotR counts as anything close to an epic fail for AUJ. The very idea brings ridiculous expectations involving comparisons to LotR to a new level of foolishness in my opinion.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 11:14am

Post #11 of 37 (731 views)
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But the entire point of that scene is to tie the two together [In reply to] Can't Post

And it pretty much fails to do that, because it just makes FotR's intro confusing, where before it made perfect sense Crazy If it slows The Hobbit down (a lot) and fails at the only thing it's attempting to do, then I don't see the point in it TBH.


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 24 2013, 11:23am

Post #12 of 37 (753 views)
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Epic fail?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hardly. Minor continuity error at most.

And as several people have already pointed out, there are ways of interpreting it in which the two scenes blend very naturally.


Luinnr
Rivendell

Apr 24 2013, 11:47am

Post #13 of 37 (761 views)
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Bilbo describing hobbits. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo writes "My dear Frodo..." "...It began long ago..." "...That's where I come into the story..." and then "In a hole in the ground..." (Why would Frodo need a description of a hobbit hole?) then he sees Frodo off to meet Gandalf.

Quote
Maybe he wasn't writing it for Frodo only. Maybe he was hoping that the story would be passed on not only to hobbits, but to other races as well.


Lindele
Rohan


Apr 24 2013, 12:11pm

Post #14 of 37 (720 views)
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If you actually [In reply to] Can't Post

pay attention it is easy to see that this is later in the day.
Also, they've already established that Bilbo is forgetful.
Either way, the filmmakers have covered themselves.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 12:39pm

Post #15 of 37 (690 views)
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Forgetful doesn't cut it for me... [In reply to] Can't Post

How would Bilbo forget that Frodo has gone to meet Gandalf? He hasn't seen Gandalf in years! He should be anticipating his arrival - excitedly preparing food and drink. But instead sits in his study and just forgets? And then he's suddenly all surprised when Gandalf turns up. I don't think he's THAT forgetful, personally.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 12:51pm

Post #16 of 37 (736 views)
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Actually, he never writes "My dear Frodo" [In reply to] Can't Post

Just checked. He says "My Dear Frodo... etc." But when it shows the book he only writes "It began long ago"

Then later he says "That, my dear Frodo is where I come in..." and in the book he only writes "In a hole in the ground" so it seems he's only addressing it to Frodo in his head, not in the book.

But still "Where to begin" makes no sense.


Lindele
Rohan


Apr 24 2013, 1:48pm

Post #17 of 37 (675 views)
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I feel like [In reply to] Can't Post

people want to be spoon fed, and not use their imaginations at all.
The stories are structured in a way that best suit their own agendas...that doesn't mean that all of Bilbo's lines couldn't have been spoken at some point during that day.
We don't know when he said 'where to begin' we don't know when he said anything. All we know is how the story has been cut to fit what the storytellers are trying to say.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2013, 2:17pm

Post #18 of 37 (615 views)
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I wouldn't really call this and "epic fail" [In reply to] Can't Post

if it's a fail at all. And this nitpick has been discussed for months. It'd be interesting to see a 'chronological' cut of these scenes together to see how well it plays out, and how well they blend together visually, considering the 10 plus year difference.


Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 3:41pm

Post #19 of 37 (586 views)
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I think your point is valid, although not that it's a fail [In reply to] Can't Post

You've brought a good point, but I think the film makers knew as well that Bilbo's "surprise" upon finding Gandalf at his door in FOTR needed to be addressed. I think they were on top of this and addressed it by making it a point to show clearly in AUJ that Bilbo forgot even that his own birthday party was that day. So that later, when he is surprised to see Gandalf at his door, it'll fit in with what we've already been shown - that Bilbo really is very advanced in age and that his mind/ memory has been affected. It's also very indicative of older people's memories, to forget what is happening today, but be very clear on something that happened 40 years ago (Lobelia stealing his spoons).

So it would not be unusual for someone of Bilbo's very advanced age, one who is also said to be becoming a 'bit odd', to forget when or where Frodo's gone off to as well. In addition, he's been writing all day. When you're writing, or drawing / painting, etc., you get very absorbed - no matter what your age - and if you then get interrupted, say, by a knock on the door, e.g., you have a sort of temporary 'huh? wha?' feeling, where you need some time to come back to normalcy.

It'll be interesting to view the continuity on these events when we can someday watch all six in order :-).


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2013, 4:08pm

Post #20 of 37 (570 views)
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the question is... which order? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote

It'll be interesting to view the continuity on these events when we can someday watch all six in order :-)

I raise this question not to be smart or challenging but others have said to me, that the films should be watched in the order they were released. Personally I think they should be watched from the start of the Hobbit all the way thru ROTK in chronological order to be enjoyed properly. I guess I just feel the story flows better from the book point of view that way.

So which way should be the best way to see all 6 films when they are done?... The Hobbit thru ROTK OR... start with FOTR and end with The Hobbit TABA?




RosieLass
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 4:10pm

Post #21 of 37 (575 views)
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I intend to watch them in the order Tolkien wrote them. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although, to be honest, I just don't have any particular urge to see the LOTR films anymore.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 25 2013, 12:33am

Post #22 of 37 (393 views)
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I prefer chronological order [In reply to] Can't Post

Like reading a book - start with AUJ, then DOS, etc., and watch all the way through ROTK - in chronological order of the events of the story. That's what I would do.

I wonder what the opinions on the films will be years in the future, when there will be viewers who will have the experience of watching the six films that way in chronological order all for the first time, without ever having seen the LOTR trilogy first.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Apr 25 2013, 1:06am

Post #23 of 37 (390 views)
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Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate that there is a bit of poetic license in the editing.

If you can get away with something for cinematic value then I say all the better!

Crazy

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Apr 25 2013, 1:10am

Post #24 of 37 (384 views)
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I noticed this too [In reply to] Can't Post

I wondered about that. I was thinking about how in the EE of Fellowship of the Ring, Bilbo was calling for Frodo to get the door, yet in The Hobbit, Frodo told Bilbo that he was going to wait for Gandalf. Bilbo even saw him off! Either this was a continuity error, or Bilbo forgot. He is rather hurried.


Ffnir
Rohan


Apr 25 2013, 1:16am

Post #25 of 37 (389 views)
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I think everybody will still know [In reply to] Can't Post

some actors seem clearly younger in lotr and the special effects seem a bit older, so i think exept for young children everybody will notice, google "the hobbit movie" and know...

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