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does anyone, or are there people in the world who actually believe in tolkiens mythology as their religion?
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boldog
Rohan


Apr 24 2013, 8:32am

Post #1 of 37 (424 views)
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does anyone, or are there people in the world who actually believe in tolkiens mythology as their religion? Can't Post

I dont know, i was just wondering.
the silmarillion basically gives a good "biblical story" of the middle earth world, explaining legends, and Gods and stuff like that.
it seems to be a pretty realistic religion if you tell me, and i believe it is like paganism mixed with christianity.
but what i want to know is if there is anyone who actually believes in it? (no discrimination). I dont coz im a catholic, but i dont seem the harmLaugh. besides i think it is much more believable than jedism, which is actually practised by manyUnsure

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


dik-dik
Lorien


Apr 24 2013, 11:18am

Post #2 of 37 (242 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know anyone who believes in Arda as their religion; the closest I've seen was a person who claimed, in a fan forum, that they truly believed what Tolkien wrote was real.
But I can see why believing in Eru and the Valar might sound like an appealing 'religion' - with no hell waiting for the, shall we say, less than perfect human souls, who also briefly get a glimpse of Valinor. Not bad. Smile

"A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." ~ Paul Eddington


geordie
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2013, 12:17pm

Post #3 of 37 (225 views)
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No. I shouldn't want to meet anyone who does, either. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Arannir
Valinor

Apr 24 2013, 12:23pm

Post #4 of 37 (223 views)
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Certainly not. [In reply to] Can't Post

And people who do must have serious issues.

However, I met several people who take it way too literally that Tolkien set Middle-earth in a world that basically becomes our world at some point. And of course those who hang on to the belief that Sauron is either Hitler or Stalin and the Ring the Bomb.


(This post was edited by Arannir on Apr 24 2013, 12:24pm)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Apr 24 2013, 12:53pm

Post #5 of 37 (237 views)
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Course its real [In reply to] Can't Post

I can trace back to Ghan buri Ghan on me mums side and Bill the Pony on me dads.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Apr 24 2013, 1:01pm

Post #6 of 37 (212 views)
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impressive!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
bill himself was descended from nubbins, high king of all the ponies.

cheers -

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 24 2013, 1:38pm

Post #7 of 37 (217 views)
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Well, I can imagine it as a post-apocalyptic story premise... [In reply to] Can't Post

...much as with John Boorman's 1974 film Zardoz. But here and now? Even in a world with Scientology, I have a hard time taking the idea seriously.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 1:51pm

Post #8 of 37 (199 views)
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Hilarious! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Finwe
Lorien


Apr 24 2013, 1:53pm

Post #9 of 37 (216 views)
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Not that I'm aware of [In reply to] Can't Post

Can't say I've ever met or heard of anyone taking their love of Tolkien to this extreme. Here's a follow up question: Are there any modern religions/cults built around Old World, i.e. Greek, Roman, Norse, mythology? I'm no expert in these mythologies, but Tolkien's mythology doesn't seem a whole lot different than those and people believed them for centuries.

As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when Fanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.


CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 1:57pm

Post #10 of 37 (204 views)
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I asked this question on Main awhile back, if you'd like to see the answers then. [In reply to] Can't Post

Why no Tolkien cults?

And no one seemed to know of any. Idril mentioned Jediism.

But I totally agree with you. I can easily see people making a religion out of Tolkien and am really surprised no one has. Not that I want one. I've just seen religions made out of far less material.


CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 2:02pm

Post #11 of 37 (213 views)
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I've read of new age Greek god worshippers in Greece [In reply to] Can't Post

But they didn't seem to have any following. And there are definitely new age Druids who tie into the environmentalist movement (which is why I think Tolkien's Ents would make a good religious figurehead for the back-to-nature, anti-Industrial Age movement). But Norse, Roman, Egyptian? Haven't read about any.


telain
Rohan

Apr 24 2013, 2:04pm

Post #12 of 37 (202 views)
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yep [In reply to] Can't Post

There are many modern pagan religions that are based on the "Old World" religions. One is Asatru, based on Germanic/Norse mythologies and there are many Greek/Hellenic Reconstructionist religions as well.

The fact that Tolkien based much of the religion of Arda/Middle-earth on Celtic and ancient Briton (and pan-European) mythologies suggests that there are probably people who like Tolkien's interpretation of past (and mythological) events.


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 2:09pm

Post #13 of 37 (213 views)
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Perhaps. [In reply to] Can't Post

As I recall, in old Soviet Russia the KGB persecuted Tolkien fans, or "Tolkienisti". Whether unimaginative apparatchiks actually believed the fans believed is debatable.

Still, as of today, supposedly some Russian fans have taken Tolkien to extremes, living an alternative "religious lifestyle" based on Tolkien's works.

Outright government persecution of such lifestyles supposedly continues in the Central Asian former Soviet republics such as Kazakhstan, with practitioners allegedly being detained, imprisoned, and even tortured.

Personally I take the reports with a grain of salt.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.



DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 2:53pm

Post #14 of 37 (200 views)
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Would it be so wrong if someone did? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the stories, especially in the first couple chapters of The Silmarillion, are more charming and appealing than the Bible. I'd prefer to believe that the Sun and Moon were created by the Valar in response to the designs of Melkor.

I don't think anyone who *does* hold Tolkien's mythology as their religion as "weird", "silly", or just "plain stupid". It's no worse than anyone else's religion, which are all based on stories. Religion is a personal preference. If someone gets their morals in response to Tolkien's stories, then that's no bad thing. In the same way, if someone gets their morals from the Bible then that's fine. As long as they're doing the right thing, and don't impose their religion on anyone else, then it doesn't really matter.

As an atheist (but bought up as a protestant), I do not believe in heaven (or hell). However, I do like to believe that when we die, we go to our own heaven, which we personally choose. Valinor is number 1 on my list.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Apr 24 2013, 2:56pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 3:22pm

Post #15 of 37 (179 views)
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"Namri For Leibowitz". / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.



Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Apr 24 2013, 3:27pm

Post #16 of 37 (171 views)
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Ha! Exactly! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 4:05pm

Post #17 of 37 (185 views)
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People can believe what they want, and will [In reply to] Can't Post

But Tolkien was rather explicit in his desire that no one start a religion based on his works, so for a fan of Tolkien to do so would be contradicting the intent of the author they're a fan of, which seems to be a rough start. That part seems "wrong" seems it would be wrong to Tolkien. But I'm not the Thought Police, and in the broader sense of "wrong," I agree with you that it's not.

Maybe what would seem a little odd to me is that Tolkien's works are clearly intended to be works of fiction, not any kind of divine revelation. Hence it wouldn't make that much sense to me if someone created a formal religion out of something that the author very clearly presented as a false (but pleasing!) reality. That wouldn't be wrong either, just wouldn't make any sense to me.

Speaking personally, the moral choices that Tolkien illustrated had a profound influence on me growing up and helped shape my overall religious views, just not in a Valar-kind of way.


Voronw_the_Faithful
Valinor

Apr 24 2013, 4:06pm

Post #18 of 37 (176 views)
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Well said [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree on all counts.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 4:11pm

Post #19 of 37 (168 views)
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Oh I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

And I didn't really mean to suggest that someone should start up a "Tolkien religion". I certainly wouldn't join in. But as you guessed, I was more hinting on the fact that people can believe what they want, when they want, and to whatever extent they like.

The Silmarillion is one brilliant book though. Wink


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Apr 24 2013, 4:18pm)


CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 4:32pm

Post #20 of 37 (161 views)
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Maybe my rather negative view is [In reply to] Can't Post

that if there were a high-profile Tolkien cult, it would darken the reputation of the books and movies. "Oh, you read Tolkien?! Those people are crazies!" As a fan, I wouldn't want to see that, since it would drive away would-be readers/movie-goers that might derive as much enjoyment and meaning from it as I do. And then selfishly, I would have fewer people to talk about them with. But I wouldn't prohibit it even if I could; just would try to wish it away.


CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 4:50pm

Post #21 of 37 (176 views)
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Has anyone read "The Gospel According to Tolkien"? [In reply to] Can't Post

I gave it a quick read a few years ago, and like most things, don't remember a whole lot about it, but the musings on Tolkien's reverence for the Sea stick with me. Not only do Elves yearn for the Sea and what lies beyond it, and Melkor fears it as an evil being would fear what's good and purifying, but Ulmo is almost always the wisest and most compassionate of the Valar. Then there's the reverberating quote: "The true hope of the Noldor lieth in the West, and cometh from the Sea." Why not just "the West"? The Sea is put on a par with Valinor, though maybe Yavanna would have said something just as partisan as Ulmo if given a chance, such as "Lieth in the West and cometh from the Trees." Aule would have said from the mountains, Varda from the stars, Nienna from tears, and Tulkas from his fists.

It wasn't literally a Biblical version of Tolkien, just a catchy title.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Apr 24 2013, 5:30pm

Post #22 of 37 (155 views)
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I don't remember that- [In reply to] Can't Post

-"But Tolkien was rather explicit in his desire that no one start a religion based on his works, so for a fan of Tolkien to do so would be contradicting the intent of the author they're a fan of, which seems to be a rough start."

Can you tell us where Tolkien said that? I don't recall reading that this was a question while Tolkien was alive.
.



CuriousG
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 5:58pm

Post #23 of 37 (145 views)
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One of his letters, but don't recall which one. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 6:01pm

Post #24 of 37 (174 views)
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Here [In reply to] Can't Post

http://pure.au.dk/...9-000ea68e967b).html

The document at the site takes about a minute to download.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.



(This post was edited by Darkstone on Apr 24 2013, 6:04pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 24 2013, 6:23pm

Post #25 of 37 (142 views)
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I read "The Gospel According to Peanuts". [In reply to] Can't Post

Probably not quite the same thing.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.


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