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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
John Callen on Oin: What do you make of this? (***spoilers?***)

Roheryn
Grey Havens

Apr 23 2013, 9:35pm

Post #1 of 13 (1692 views)
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John Callen on Oin: What do you make of this? (***spoilers?***) Can't Post

I got The Hobbit Chronicles: Creatures and Characters yesterday, and stayed up way too late last night reading the entire 68-page section on Dwarves. First off, I have to say this is a spectacular book, even better than the first one. The attention to every conceivable (and inconceivable!) detail by everyone involved in the movie is nothing short of phenomenal. If you don't have this book, and you're remotely interested, get thee to a bookstore and buy one. You'll love it!

Several bits in particular really caught my attention while reading through the Dwarves section, but here's the most intriguing one. It's in the section on Oin and Gloin, and it's at the end of a longish bit written by John Callen. He's just been describing how Oin is the team medic, and how "If anyone was injured or sick Oin would be called upon." He then writes this: "Oin's purpose and indeed his priorities become evident when we get deeper into the story and he has to make a choice between the Quest and his calling. It affirms his role in the group as a healer, and is done in a way that isn't soppy, but minutes later he's back in the fray and giving it all he's got."

So, what do you all make of this? I take "deeper into the story" to mean in DOS or TABA. What sort of choice could he be faced with, one between the Quest and his calling? Who needs his help? Not soppy? That means there could be the potential for soppiness. Minutes later he's back in the fray? So it's during a fight scene? I'm so curious!

Could this be when Thorin is mortally wounded? Would that require a choice between the Quest and his calling? I'm not sure it would.

Thoughts? Speculations?


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 23 2013, 9:55pm

Post #2 of 13 (882 views)
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Could it have something to do with ... [In reply to] Can't Post

While I think that it refers to the BO5A and Thorin, could it have something to do with Kili's injury, that was hinted on during the DOS Sneak Peak? After escaping Mirkwood and Thranduil's Halls, perhaps Kili falls sick in Laketown, delaying the Company. Not sure what the point would be ... but he clearly gets an injury.

And the book, is stunning. I haven't put it down either.


marillaraina
Rohan


Apr 23 2013, 10:39pm

Post #3 of 13 (682 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I would think, for it to make a real point, he might be talking about treating a NON-dwarf. I mean it would only be natural for him to treat one of his fellow company members, even with the quest(I mean I can't imagine Thorin being upset at a slight delay because one of his nephews was injured, I mean not much more than slightly annoyed anyway), but if Oin stopped to try and help someone else, a non dwarf, maybe even an elf, though I would think the elves would have plenty of help around, so perhaps a human.

To delay to help an injured non-dwarf would make a real point about Oin choosing his calling. And I think it would have to be before the Dwarves get into Erebor, because once they get into Erebor, the Quest, as it were, is completely. They've reached their goal.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Apr 23 2013, 10:40pm)


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Apr 23 2013, 10:50pm

Post #4 of 13 (646 views)
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This Seems Very Likely [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I would think, for it to make a real point, he might be talking about treating a NON-dwarf. I mean it would only be natural for him to treat one of his fellow company members, even with the quest(I mean I can't imagine Thorin being upset at a slight delay because one of his nephews was injured, I mean not much more than slightly annoyed anyway), but if Oin stopped to try and help someone else, a non dwarf, maybe even an elf, though I would think the elves would have plenty of help around, so perhaps a human.

To delay to help an injured non-dwarf would make a real point about Oin choosing his calling. And I think it would have to be before the Dwarves get into Erebor, because once they get into Erebor, the Quest, as it were, is completely. They've reached their goal.


My first reaction was yours. Oin is probably trying to help an elf or a man at the expense of fighting for the Company. This will add depth to his character and a bit more tension to the quest.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Apr 23 2013, 10:52pm

Post #5 of 13 (672 views)
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I thought about that... [In reply to] Can't Post

that maybe he treats Kili for that leg wound. But like marillaraina says below, I don't really see treating Kili in the midst of some action as Oin having to choose between the Quest and his calling. Wouldn't treating Kili be more likely seen as aiding the Quest?

Completely baseless speculation: maybe Thorin really does injure Bilbo in the "You descendant of rats!" scene, and Oin has to choose whether to tend to Bilbo (whom we already suspect he likes, since he bet on him joining the Company) or to follow Thorin back inside the dark holds of Erebor. At that point, Thorin would certainly see any tending of Bilbo as the act of a traitor, so Oin would have to make a tough decision.

Stunning, yes! It's a lovely sunny day outside after 10 days of hard rain, but I just want to stay inside and read it all day!


Luinnár
Rivendell

Apr 23 2013, 10:56pm

Post #6 of 13 (648 views)
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I would like to see [In reply to] Can't Post

him attempting to wake up Bombur after he falls into the enchanted river. Laugh


Bombadil
Half-elven


Apr 24 2013, 12:51am

Post #7 of 13 (566 views)
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Ro! how Wonderful...When Bomby copied and searched for this Book? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bomby was re-directed to TORn's Home Page...
How Cool is that?

Shows how Unexpected, but Respected
TORN isss...


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Apr 24 2013, 5:35am

Post #8 of 13 (419 views)
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That's neat, Bomby. :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

TORn rocks! There's a reason it's the biggest Tolkien fan site on the 'net. Smile


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 10:54am

Post #9 of 13 (392 views)
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Don't worry. I'm sure whatever it is, it'll probably be cut... [In reply to] Can't Post

Just like all the character development in PJ's films. They split two films into three and we still get empty-shelled background dwarves that barely speak. PJ likes to give lots of back-story to characters and tends to never actually show any of it on film.

This is evident in King Kong. Where, if you watch the bonus features, all the ship's crew had these complicated stories, (eg. one had a wooden leg which is never apparent in the film, but actually plays a role of hindrance in the triceratops fight and a role of irony in his death, where his other leg is eaten). I'm not sure how he does it, but it seems to me that PJ gives his characters all this complexity and then just assumes the audience knows everything without actually explaining any of it. He makes many references to things like Jimmy's history (and the wooden leg) in the commentary as if it wasn't completely removed. I don't think he realizes that if you don't tell the audience something within the film, then there's no way of them knowing it!


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 24 2013, 10:54am)


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 24 2013, 11:10am

Post #10 of 13 (370 views)
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Even if you don't see the whole back story [In reply to] Can't Post

it is still important because it informs all the little reactions and facial expressions and helps an actor/actress get into character for the parts you do see.

This is interesting, though! It could result in as much as a few seconds on screen or several minutes. Either way, this level of detail is good and adds a lot to the re-play value and richness of the story.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 24 2013, 11:18am

Post #11 of 13 (350 views)
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Absolutely, it's better than no back-story at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

And it does help adding dimension in little moments. It's just annoying that so much gets removed. I'm really hoping that all the material in the EE is character development. If all we see is even longer action sequences then I'm pretty much done with these movies.


Kimtc
Rohan


Apr 25 2013, 1:45pm

Post #12 of 13 (149 views)
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I felt this particularly in LOTR with Aragorn and Faramir [In reply to] Can't Post

In the movie, I felt like PJ actually went out of his way to give Aragorn too much backstory, so he would be conflicted and it would propel his character a bit more (face it, Aragorn in the book is a pretty confident guy, without a whole lot of conflict). As a result, Aragorn was all over the place--unsure one minute, then suddenly a regular killing machine. But Faramir in the book is a really complex character, who for me stands in for a lot of the questions of family and war that Tolkien wanted addressed. Yet in the movie, a lot of that went out the window, and he seemed, well, sort of whiny ("Why doesn't dad like me better?"). I know he's not Aragorn, and I understand a movie like that needs its hero, but still.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Apr 25 2013, 2:05pm

Post #13 of 13 (152 views)
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Story/character development belongs in the film and not solely in the making-of materials... [In reply to] Can't Post

As there was no mention of Oin being the "apothecary" in AUJ, not much (if any) focus on it will likely end up in the next two films.

Agreed that PJ really squandered his character-building thus far (including with characters such as Yazneg, the ambitious Orc captain who wants Azog's job but asserts himself when his boss isn't around, according to Chronicles 2...yep, that really seemed evident from the movie). By contrast, IMO the character development was one of the most winning things about LotR.

Hopefully at least some of the Dwarf material will be back in the EE's, at any rate.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

 
 

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