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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
the problem with orcs

Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Apr 23 2013, 12:38pm


Views: 560
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the problem with orcs Can't Post

 
yes, i know tolkien wrestled with their origins. but the best we have, at this point, is that they are corrupted eldar (with perhaps some corrupted edain thrown in... who knows, some corrupted dwarves as well).

neither melkor nor sauron nor anyone else can create life from scratch. that is certainly consistent. so the orcs came from something with a fea.

if they have fea, they essentially have souls. i find the plight of the orcs perhaps the most pitiable of all, for having souls, yet being so spiritually tortured that they are injured by the things from which were part of their natural environment and legacy (light, blessedness).

so are orcs born evil? if we could take an orc at birth and raise it, what part of its corruption comes from the corruption of its hror?

although i really don't see a way around killing them in great quantities to protect homes and people...think upon these killings and sweeping victories as massive kinslayings, elf upon elf (however disfigured). that is a sickening vista, and one may view these battles through an entirely different lens.

pity the orcs.


cheers and lamentations --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel

Subject User Time
the problem with orcs Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 23 2013, 12:38pm
    Born bad CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 23 2013, 2:03pm
        ? Orcs as sympathetic characters? elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Apr 23 2013, 10:37pm
        what a wonderful, thoughtful post, curiousg... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 24 2013, 12:46am
            You're very welcome, Mac CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 24 2013, 2:38pm
        Orcs were Elves, remember? Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 2 2013, 7:54pm
            Part of the back and forth we discuss is that CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 2 2013, 7:58pm
                More Orcish Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 2 2013, 10:05pm
                    Excellent point Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 2 2013, 10:34pm
                        Yup. Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 2 2013, 10:47pm
                    very interesting thought! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 3 2013, 11:59am
    Unfortunately, Orcs seem to be left with little (if any) free will... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Apr 23 2013, 2:28pm
        personally Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 24 2013, 12:17am
    In the journey to Mount Doom Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Apr 24 2013, 7:27am
        GALLOPING INTO ROHAN!!!!!! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 24 2013, 11:53am
            Welcome to Rohan! Aragalen the Green Send a private message to Aragalen the Green Apr 24 2013, 2:46pm
                thanks, aragalen : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 26 2013, 11:55pm
            Oh, I just noticed (so slow). Welcome to the Mark, and ride on. // CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 24 2013, 4:06pm
                ah, thanks!!!! : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 24 2013, 4:15pm
    Orc origins tangent Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Apr 24 2013, 1:36pm
        hi -- think you might have misunderstood me Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 25 2013, 10:30pm
            external origin matters Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Apr 27 2013, 12:05pm
                hi elthir Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 28 2013, 1:29pm
                    some of the external timeline Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Apr 28 2013, 11:08pm
                        Thanks for the succinct timeline CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 28 2013, 11:42pm
                            I'm not convinced that Trolls were supposed to have been made from Ents Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Apr 29 2013, 2:49am
                                ents Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 30 2013, 11:21am
                                    I think that you are confusing me with CuriousG... Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Apr 30 2013, 3:36pm
                            Thanks... Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Apr 29 2013, 5:36pm
                            dragons Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 1 2013, 5:45am
                                Yes, still a problem about intelligence CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 1 2013, 8:01pm
                                    I kind of like the Maiar or lesser spirit route... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil May 1 2013, 8:11pm
                                    I think of it imin Send a private message to imin May 1 2013, 9:27pm
                        nice timeline, elthir Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 30 2013, 11:15am
                            the early goblin catches the wyrm Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Apr 30 2013, 12:17pm
                                Great post imin Send a private message to imin Apr 30 2013, 10:07pm
    My take on Orcs, souls, and redemption Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Apr 24 2013, 7:23pm
    I never realized why PJ had the Uruk Hai mud birth until I read this: Eruonen Send a private message to Eruonen Apr 26 2013, 9:05pm
        That brings up a good question about free will CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 26 2013, 9:45pm
            free will Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 27 2013, 12:06am
                I cannot answer you CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 27 2013, 12:52am
                    You're a Congressman CG? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Apr 27 2013, 1:20am
                        brethil, indeed -- Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 27 2013, 4:28am
                    national poetry month Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 27 2013, 4:26am
                        "All of them at once!" CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Apr 27 2013, 7:53pm
        thanks for digging that up re pj's uruk-hai Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Apr 27 2013, 12:03am
    Orcs are people... right? Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 2 2013, 3:55pm
        Good distinction that you make CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 2 2013, 4:43pm
            didn't Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 2 2013, 5:01pm
                Yes, girls get ponies, boys get orcs-buddies. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 2 2013, 5:15pm
            Thanks! Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 2 2013, 7:50pm
                I think they're cool in that they're not just monsters CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG May 2 2013, 7:55pm
        orcs Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel May 3 2013, 12:01pm
            an orkish sleep aid Elthir Send a private message to Elthir May 3 2013, 2:17pm
                Sauron vs Melkor (Morgoth) Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 3 2013, 3:10pm
                Metaphors? Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 3 2013, 3:11pm
            Thanks Frostbitten Send a private message to Frostbitten May 3 2013, 3:07pm

 
 
 

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