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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Necromancerīs work already showned in AUJ? (Azanulbizar orcīs resurected)

Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea

Apr 22 2013, 1:00pm

Post #1 of 12 (1312 views)
Necromancerīs work already showned in AUJ? (Azanulbizar orcīs resurected) Can't Post

I found this pic on facebook and a speculation going on that I feel could be right. We see this faces in Azanulbizar, and then in the pruchase towards Rivendell.

Besides we see Bolg being wounded by Dwalin, and yet we know he is going to reapear in DOS and that he is going to be at Dol Guldur

What f Necromancer rises the corpses of the army of Azog and send them towards the company?


The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!

The Mitch King

Apr 22 2013, 3:43pm

Post #2 of 12 (596 views)
Necromancer [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it almost certainly means that the Necromancer is involved somehow in the Azog subplot. The only thing missing at this point are the details really. Bolg is in Dol Guldur somehow working for the Necromancer. How did he get all the way to Mirkwood and if Azog and them didn't die then why isn't Bolg with the Azog's party. The most reasonable thing to think would be there was some Necromancing here or there. It doesn't really bother me much since Azog isn't really in the book but I am over that now. DOS should fill in all these annoying details we are dying (pun intended) to know! Plus I always thought it was weird calling Sauron the Necromancer if he wasn't actually bringing people back to life.


Apr 22 2013, 3:52pm

Post #3 of 12 (539 views)
Orc #3 is one of them that takes Azog back in to Moria [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there are 4 possibilities, in this order:

1. All three Orcs occur at different parts of the film because of re-used CGI and/or prostheses
2. All three Orcs survive Azanulbizar, just like Azog (this is certainly the case for Orc #3)
3. A combination of 1 and 2
4. The Necromancer bought them back to life

(This post was edited by DanielLB on Apr 22 2013, 3:53pm)


Apr 22 2013, 5:25pm

Post #4 of 12 (445 views)
Duplicates [In reply to] Can't Post

Could be just orcs with similar designs. Has anyone tried to go back to LOTR and do the same thing (pick out orcs that look alike)?

I would imagine the re-animated dead will have more of a zombie feel than this, but that is just me.


Apr 22 2013, 7:41pm

Post #5 of 12 (385 views)
Necromancer name. [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought he was called the Necromancer becuase the Nazgul were operating out of there- and they are basically undead and just invisible malignant spiirts derobed- so the people who lived round the southern edges of Mirkwood called whoever was in Dol Guldur the Necromancer for that reason- the same way people call the old lady in the cottage in the woods a witch without actually having to witness her flying about on a broom stick.
I have never taken it as been Sauron literally raising the dead- if he can do that in the time period of TH he would never have ran out of orcs by Pelannor.


Apr 22 2013, 8:59pm

Post #6 of 12 (342 views)
Tolkien gives the opposite impresseion [In reply to] Can't Post

Prof. Tolkien's writings give the exact opposite impression from your suggestion: He indicates that teh Nazgul were seldom if ever spotted around Dol Guldur up to the time of The Hobbit, having been sent to Mordor to prepare for Sauron's eventual return.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Apr 22 2013, 9:33pm

Post #7 of 12 (332 views)
Not the opposite. A Nazgul [In reply to] Can't Post

was I think the Leutentant of Dol Guldur. The Nine were busy during this period- they took Osgiliath, Ithilien and of course Minas Ithil (all a bit tricky if PJ has them imprisoned in tombs that entire period).

Tolkien also says the reason Sauron choose to go to Dul Guldur in the first place was to search for the Ring around the area of the Gladden and Great River- and in LotR we are told the Nazgul are the only servants he trusts with the Ring. So it makes sense he would have used Nazgul, not orcs to do the searching.

And Sauron sent three Nazgul headed by Khamul 'back' to reoccupy Dol Guldur ten years after he was driven out.

And the name doesn't in fact thave to come from an actual Nazgul being there anyway, as when Sauron frst reappeared he was in fact mistaken for being one of the Nazgul- and as they are undead the name Necromancer may well have come from this early mistaken identity rather than any association with Sauron at all. (bear in mind in the book Gandalf knew it was really Sauron long before the events of TH but the general populace did not- I imagine it served the purposes of the Wise for people to keep calling him a Necromancer rather than let it out who it really was, certainly they never corrected the error until Sauron openly declared himself and returned to Mordor.)

(This post was edited by pettytyrant101 on Apr 22 2013, 9:36pm)


Apr 22 2013, 10:14pm

Post #8 of 12 (304 views)
I think they reused Orcs in LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

I could be wrong but I'm sure I've seen some orcs reused throughout the trilogy. I don't have any images to support this though.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Apr 23 2013, 12:26am

Post #9 of 12 (245 views)
Maybe they just survived the battle? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do we actually see any of them being killed? Maybe, like Azog, they just didn't die in the first place. Smile (Or like has been mentioned elsewhere their designs were just reused because they thought nobody would notice. Laugh) Those are some good observations though!

As for Bolg, I am of the opinion that he also didn't die. (Taking an axe or two doesn't necessarily mean you'll end up dead. Just ask Bifur!) But why Bolg is working for the Necromancer is still unknown. I guess all will be revealed in DoS.

Anyway, I do believe that the Necromancer earned his name for his mastery of the spirits of the dead, rather than reanimating dead bodies. Please please please, no zombie Orcs in the movies!

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Apr 23 2013, 1:49am

Post #10 of 12 (234 views)
I know that one or more Wraiths were suspected of occupying Dol Guldur... [In reply to] Can't Post

,,,prior to Gandalf's discovery of the Necromancer's true identity. However, I'm not sure that Tolkien ever confirmed that any Nazgul actually resided there until TA 2951. It does make a certain amount of sense, though, that Sauron might keep at least one of the Nine fairly close to him (or at least in close contact) while he is in his Mirkwood stronghold.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Apr 23 2013, 5:01pm

Post #11 of 12 (171 views)
I think the whole name of Necromancer [In reply to] Can't Post

Is sort of like the name that's passed down by legends and re-tellings, and it became an easy way to refer to him. That's the way I justify it to myself.

Originally, if he was believed to the the WitchKing, that person was a human (once) who dabbled in darker sides of magic. Over the years this tale was warped and eventually dark, necromantic magic became associated with the old fortress.

It's kind of like Internet rumors. They get blown completely out of proportion with each telling.

"Yeah, my cousin lived on the banks of the Anduin, and he said he saw Bigfoot, a big hairy shambling thing..." (actually Beorn)
"Well, my cousin said there's elf witches in the forest over that way"
"You don't say, Mr. Maggot?"
"What about this here, Necro-necromanticker? What's he all about?
"Ah, now that's where I know for a fact that he's that fellow who used to dwell in Rhudaur, but he was destroyed by the White wizards and..."

you get the idea...


Apr 23 2013, 9:31pm

Post #12 of 12 (165 views)
This supports my old theory [In reply to] Can't Post

Interesting. In case you missed it in January: http://newboards.theonering.net/...s_Blue_When_P567609/


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