|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
dijomaja
Lorien
Apr 12 2013, 1:40am
Post #1 of 23
(1431 views)
Shortcut
|
|
voices and accents
|
Can't Post
|
|
A lot of the voice-over in the early scenes sounded different, as if Ian Holm's voice had changed (a possibility) or another actor was brought in. Any information?
Also, as with LOTR, the accents seemed all over the map. Some of the Dwarves had Gimli's Scottish accent and some sounded Irish.
For another example, Martin Freeman's accent sounded (to this American, anyway) like a Southern English accent (I kept thinking of Justin Hayward of The Moody Blues) while neither Old nor new Bilbo sounded that way. Any help?
|
|
|
Chubb-Baggins
The Shire
Apr 12 2013, 2:11am
Post #2 of 23
(1008 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Martin Freeman's natural accent is Estuary English
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
While he sounded more posh or RP-ish in the Hobbit than his natural one, I believe.
|
|
|
tarasaurus
Rohan
Apr 12 2013, 2:21am
Post #3 of 23
(986 views)
Shortcut
|
But I think with Aidan Turner, even though he didn't talk a ton, seemed to have more of a British accent to me than Irish. And I believe they have Gloin in a different accent to sound like Gimli's (I saw this in an interview, can't remember where or what the exact accent was they were achieving).
|
|
|
Seaber
Rivendell
Apr 12 2013, 3:24am
Post #4 of 23
(968 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Very general terms for accents, but
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Bilbo - South England, received pronunciation
Nori - Southern England, Estuary accent (probably going for a cockney vibe)
Dori - Northern England, possibly Yorkshire/Lancashire
Thorin, Kili, Fili - Northern/Midlands England
Balin, Dwalin, Oin, Gloin - Scottish, possibly Edinburugh
Bofur - Northern Ireland
Bifur and Bombur are hard to say! Ori has a rather non descript accent.
|
|
|
Arandiel
Grey Havens
Apr 12 2013, 4:00am
Post #5 of 23
(983 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Turner and O'Gorman both shifted
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
to a northern English accent, the better to match with Richard Armitage's voice and give support to the kinship between their characters. At least, that's what my official movie guide says...
Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - traveling through Middle Earth with thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit
Join us, Thursdays on Main!
|
|
|
marillaraina
Rohan
Apr 12 2013, 4:59am
Post #6 of 23
(937 views)
Shortcut
|
to a northern English accent, the better to match with Richard Armitage's voice and give support to the kinship between their characters. At least, that's what my official movie guide says...
We didn't get to hear them string too many words together, unfortunately, but when we did, that's what it sounded like to me. Kili didn't sound Irish and Fili didn't sound Kiwi. :) Hopefully next time, they get to say more dialogue.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Apr 12 2013, 9:46am
Post #8 of 23
(853 views)
Shortcut
|
One thing I did notice when seeing the BR DVD for the first time was that old Bilbo's voice in the Erebor voiceover seems weaker than it does when you watch the film at the cinema. This may be because there is a stereo effect in cinemas, which I certainly don't have at home…
|
|
|
ShireHorse
Rohan
Apr 12 2013, 10:31am
Post #9 of 23
(846 views)
Shortcut
|
Bilbo - South England, received pronunciation
Nori - Southern England, Estuary accent (probably going for a cockney vibe)
Dori - Northern England, possibly Yorkshire/Lancashire
Thorin, Kili, Fili - Northern/Midlands England
Balin, Dwalin, Oin, Gloin - Scottish, possibly Edinburugh
Bofur - Northern Ireland
Bifur and Bombur are hard to say! Ori has a rather non descript accent.
Ori sounds London/estuary to me. (Estuary=an accent used by those born around the Thames estuary).
RA uses a north Yorkshire accent. This is his father's accent which he is adept at imitating. His own "natural" accent is a bit hard to pin down since he is so good at doing accents from all over the country but I've always thought that it is a softer version of a northern accent since he was born further south. IIRC, when PJ was advertising the part of Thorin, one of the requirements was that the actor could speak with a north of England/Yorkshire accent. This is a well-liked accent in the UK and is associated with a rough integrity and toughness.
AT and DO have definitely changed their accents to match Thorin's. AT has always been quite good at doing English accents and I noticed the Yorkshire twang the minute they opened their mouths on the doorstep.
Dori is West Yorkshire. I believe he discussed this with Prince Charles when he visited the set in NZ. He does it very well. Aren't the brothers Ri supposed to have different mothers? Perhaps this explains why they have been brought up in different parts of England. (I like a sensible narrative behind my accents, LOL.)
Although I like listening to Balin and Dwalin, I'd appreciate a "sensible narrative" behind their Scottishness when they are relatives(?) of Thorin and apparently spent so much time with him in Erebor. (Were the actors unable to do a Yorkshire accent and so fell back on their native Scots?)
It might be because Dwalin and Balin are cousins of OIn and Gloin who are, of course, stuck with a Scottish accent as the uncle and father of Gimli (who, in LotR, strangely and annoyingly swerved from his native Welsh accent to the eventual Scottish one.)
I think that PJ has tried to be sensible, I suppose, and has given the dwarves - the wanderers of Middle-earth - accents that represent the general mixed blood of the British Isles.
|
|
|
TheHutt
Gondor
Apr 12 2013, 10:42am
Post #10 of 23
(855 views)
Shortcut
|
McTavish doesn't have a Scotch accent in real life. According to him (at HobbitCon), he based Dwalin's dialect on his father's manner of speech.
Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru
|
|
|
Seaber
Rivendell
Apr 12 2013, 11:40am
Post #11 of 23
(806 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I find Ori hard to place because
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
He's putting on a sort of childish voice, but he is definitely from the south!
Having been born pretty much on the Thames, I know the accent well :D
It's pretty cool how their accents suit their characters too. Balin's Scotch accent is far more gentle than the fireier Dwalin's or Gloin's. Nori sounds like a crook and Bofur's singsongy voice matches his character well
|
|
|
ShireHorse
Rohan
Apr 12 2013, 11:51am
Post #12 of 23
(803 views)
Shortcut
|
I know that he speaks with a perfect English accent (perhaps that makes him more marketable) but he was born in Glasgow. And what with the Scottish father, I'm sure that a Scottish accent is pretty "native" for him, just as RA finds it easy to talk with a Yorkshire accent. I wonder if his father was a Glaswegian because the city's accent is pretty impenetrable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXGP4Sez_Us
Glasgow is a beautiful but rough, tough city. I found it interesting that Dwalin and Balin bang heads when they first meet. This is known in the UK as a "Glasgow kiss", LOL, reflecting the city's violent reputation! I wonder whose idea that was?
|
|
|
TheHutt
Gondor
Apr 12 2013, 12:49pm
Post #13 of 23
(797 views)
Shortcut
|
...not to do the headbutt, but for Dwalin to pick up Balin and shake him violently. However, Ken Stott wasn't fond of that idea.
Also from HobbitCon.
Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Apr 12 2013, 5:34pm
Post #15 of 23
(733 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Do you mean East End by 'Estuary'?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
This is basically known as a Cockney accent (sadly now disappearing). I've never heard of an 'Estuary' accent (and I'm a Londoner, though not a Cockney from the East End). Is using the term 'Estuary' some kind of a PC thing?
|
|
|
ShireHorse
Rohan
Apr 12 2013, 5:56pm
Post #16 of 23
(736 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Perhaps people from within London
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
don't know what people from outside London say about their accent, LOL!
It's a pretty standard term for a south-east accent which has originated from the banks of the Thames estuary. I suppose it has elements of Cockney but I much prefer Cockney and find Estuary very ugly. It is apparently beginning to stretch beyond London because of popular TV shows.
Here is an explanation with examples, although I don't think that the Spanish presenter with her particular accent helps to get the pronunciation across:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2X9L5llhTQ
|
|
|
Seaber
Rivendell
Apr 12 2013, 8:00pm
Post #17 of 23
(710 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Estuary is East End London, Eastern parts of Greater London and areas of Kent and Essex (mostly)
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It sounds similar, but different to Cockney
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Apr 12 2013, 10:18pm
Post #18 of 23
(683 views)
Shortcut
|
So basically it is a 'working class' accent, sharing many characteristics of Cockney. I hadn't heard of it before today, but then I live right across from East London, in West London.
Interesting. I wonder whether it spread out of the East End and into Essex with the demise of industry, the docks, etc, on the Thames Estuary in London, when many people moved away from the East End…
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Apr 12 2013, 10:22pm)
|
|
|
dijomaja
Lorien
Apr 13 2013, 10:46am
Post #19 of 23
(640 views)
Shortcut
|
...for the information on accents; "Estuary" English was a new term for me.
My other question, though, was the difference between Ian Holm's Bilbo and Martin Freeman's. I'm guessing they'd both be considered RP but there's a difference I can't put my finger on (acknowledging that they're different people, of course).
Also, Ian Holm's voice-overs sounded different from his original portrayal. Passage of time?
(This post was edited by dijomaja on Apr 13 2013, 10:46am)
|
|
|
ShireHorse
Rohan
Apr 13 2013, 12:04pm
Post #20 of 23
(628 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Estuary is not totally working-class, Glorfindela.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
In that YT vid I put up a few posts back, it explains how Estuary is an interesting "coming together" of a posh accent from one end and a "common" accent from the other. Estuary is what you get when they meet in the middle which explains why it sounds a bit strangled, LOL!
Posh people like Prince Harry have attempted to moderate their posh accent so that he can be one of the lads (he's in the army) and Cockneys have tried to move upmarket and so no longer drop their "h" at the beginning of a word, for instance.
I think that both Bilbos have similar accents: RP but with a touch of London - definitely not posh. Ian Holm was born in Essex (very Estuary) and MF in Aldershot, south of London. I reckon that they are using their own accents, where Essex is more Estuary than Aldershot and that accounts for any small differences.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Apr 13 2013, 12:14pm
Post #21 of 23
(627 views)
Shortcut
|
One learns something new every day (I think I must lead a sheltered life!).
Apparently the term was first coined in the 1980s, which would make sense given the social history of the East End.
Shame about the demise of the old accents, but I suppose that is 'progress' in languages.
Just as well no one in AUJ speaks Cockney, including Rhyming Slang – or uses a Gorbals accent for that matter. 
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Apr 13 2013, 12:15pm)
|
|
|
ShireHorse
Rohan
Apr 13 2013, 12:46pm
Post #22 of 23
(619 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Well, the Trolls have Cockney accents, LOL,
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
just as Tolkien wrote it in the book.
I'll shut up now. I started off trying to be helpful because accents/language/dialects have been a study of mine in the past, but I've started to come across as a bit officious.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Apr 13 2013, 1:12pm
Post #23 of 23
(612 views)
Shortcut
|
What you've said is very interesting.
I'd forgotten about the Trolls – but at least they don't use Rhyming Slang.
just as Tolkien wrote it in the book.
I'll shut up now. I started off trying to be helpful because accents/language/dialects have been a study of mine in the past, but I've started to come across as a bit officious.
|
|
|
|
|
No, you haven't at all
[