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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
SCOD - The Evenstar (and other magical things)

One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 12:56pm

Post #1 of 17 (645 views)
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SCOD - The Evenstar (and other magical things) Can't Post

Mae govannen. Today's screencap I feel is a peculiar one - one that I'd like some opinions about.



So here we have Aragorn being returned the Evenstar

Now, how exactly is Aragorn holding it? I can see that the necklace is draped over the crevice by his thumb, but I sincerely doubt that that alone would hold the Evenstar in place. Also, it's evident that the Evenstar itself is sort of cradled in his palm (note the shadows and the way it touches his skin). Now, I doubt anybody would normally hold something this way (or maybe I'm wrong), so what is trying to be said here?

Is this meant solely for Eowyn's point-of-view?

Is there something I've missed entirely? (perhaps the actually weight or nature of the Evenstar)

A similar instance happens in Fellowship of the Ring with Bilbo:



This sequence is probably much easier to determine in terms of gravity and magic, but between both the Ring and the Evenstar, what can we make about the jewellery of Middle-Earth?


Stigmata Script, a bastion for aspiring writers - http://stigmatascript.com/

"You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Ah, it is the fault of our science that it wants to explain all; and if it explain not, then it says there is nothing to explain."


Tigero
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 3:52pm

Post #2 of 17 (413 views)
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For me the thing that stands out the most [In reply to] Can't Post

is the contrast between the pure white and gray Evenstar and Aragorn's wrecked hand and leather vambraces. I guess it singals about how Aragorn still is Strider and a ranger, yet Arwen still loves him.

Pessimists have no disappointments.


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 2 2013, 7:17pm

Post #3 of 17 (388 views)
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I'm not sure if I'm following your confusion [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe his hand is parallel to the ground, not held perpendicular to the ground. So the camera is looking down at the hand from Aragorn's perspective. With that scenario, there doesn't seem to be any mystery.


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Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 2 2013, 7:43pm

Post #4 of 17 (381 views)
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Very compelling, One Ringer [In reply to] Can't Post

I think my most visceral and immediate interpretation is that he holds it without controlling it. He accepts it into his open hand, and your right, the its own weight is what holds it there. A metaphor for the pure love of two beings - the solidifying force of deep love without possession? (Which seems to reflect JRRT's views on romantic love, certainly his own.)

And Bilbo dropping the Ring - the same open-palm of peace. (And ITS weight seems to want to stay put; it only slowly slides away.)

So both pieces perhaps are visual metaphors, that celebrating pure love and rejecting evil are the same passive, peaceful movement? Fascinating set of clips One Ringer. Thanks! Angelic

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 8:34pm

Post #5 of 17 (372 views)
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I've always been under the impression [In reply to] Can't Post

that it's placed perpendicular to the ground, triggering Eowyn's reserved reaction. Or maybe it's just me. Crazy

Stigmata Script, a bastion for aspiring writers - http://stigmatascript.com/

"You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Ah, it is the fault of our science that it wants to explain all; and if it explain not, then it says there is nothing to explain."


One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 8:38pm

Post #6 of 17 (359 views)
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I full-heartedly agree with this, [In reply to] Can't Post

and very well said, too, Brethil. Smile

Stigmata Script, a bastion for aspiring writers - http://stigmatascript.com/

"You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Ah, it is the fault of our science that it wants to explain all; and if it explain not, then it says there is nothing to explain."


Magpie
Immortal


Apr 2 2013, 9:36pm

Post #7 of 17 (363 views)
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I'm just going off that shot [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't noticed it one way or another in the movie. But it doesn't make sense if it's perpendicular... which I guess would be consistent with your confusion if it is.

However, it's possible that it's a bit of a 'goof' if the implication is that it's perpendicular and they used a 'close up' that is actually the hand being parallel.


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zarabia
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 6:10am

Post #8 of 17 (355 views)
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This is from Aragorn's POV, looking down [In reply to] Can't Post

After Legolas and Aragorn embrace, Legolas places something in Aragorn's hand. Aragorn looks puzzled at first then opens his hand - palm upwards - and sees the Evenstar that he thought he had lost. Eowyn doesn't see the Evenstar, but she can see that something important has passed between the two. She probably can put what Aragorn has told her about Arwen together with the look of understanding that passes between the Elf and Man and figure out that Aragorn is thinking of Arwen. Even without seeing the Evenstar, she realizes that the joy she feels at the sight of him is not returned.

I think the juxtaposition of the delicate, ethereal looking necklace and his dirty, bloodied hand is a visual representation of Elf and Man, as well as eternal love and mortality.

"The question isn't where, Constable, but when." - Inspector Spacetime


dijomaja
Lorien

Apr 3 2013, 11:12am

Post #9 of 17 (333 views)
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book vs. film [In reply to] Can't Post

In general, the films tried to make a romantic triangle where book-Aragorn had no such indecision. The mixed feelings on movie-Aragorn's face when Legolas hands him the Evenstar support the idea that he's holding it tentatively, not sure how he feels about being reminded. I agree that the sight of the undamaged, unstained jewel against the weathered, dirty hand is a nice touch.


(This post was edited by dijomaja on Apr 3 2013, 11:12am)


One Ringer
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 11:54am

Post #10 of 17 (321 views)
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Weird, [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe it's just me, but I never thought this was meant to be Aragorn's POV. I really feel compelled to pop in the disc right now to confirm my confusion. Tongue

Stigmata Script, a bastion for aspiring writers - http://stigmatascript.com/

"You do not let your eyes see nor your ears hear, and that which is outside your daily life is not of account to you. Ah, it is the fault of our science that it wants to explain all; and if it explain not, then it says there is nothing to explain."


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 3 2013, 12:05pm

Post #11 of 17 (318 views)
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Maybe it just went over my head, [In reply to] Can't Post

but i never got the impression that Aragorn was remotely interested in Eowyn, and never considered her an option. To me, it was all on Eowyn's part. I'm not sure what the filmmakers intent was, but i felt that Aragorn's dilemna was to realize that his love for Arwen was something worth sacrificing for, and that her sacrifice for him was legitimate, and deserving of return. Not Aragorn choosing between Arwen and Eowyn. And for Eowyn part, it was just something for her to do before finding her place in the male-dominated Rohann hierarchy, and, let's be honest, to help make Aragorn look admired and kingly (a bit of a reminder for the audience). Her character didn't really have much to do until RotK anyway, once Grima was gone.

If Jackson/Walsh/Boyens' aim was to create tension in Aragorn's supposed choice, they did a pretty bad job of it.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 3 2013, 12:18pm

Post #12 of 17 (312 views)
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I'm with zarabia (and others), [In reply to] Can't Post

this is Aragorn's point of view, looking down, hand flat. As for Eowyn seeing it or not, i'm not sure, and i can't check right now. She obviously knows the significance of the jewel, if not the exact meaning, so if she can see it, she knows she doesn't have a chance. Even if she couldn't directly see it, she probably saw Legalas give him something, and, judging by the seriousness of their tone, could probably guess what it was.


elaen32
Gondor

Apr 3 2013, 1:43pm

Post #13 of 17 (304 views)
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I agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

I never got the impression from the movies that Aragorn was interested in Eowyn romantically. I felt that some of his hesitation and tentativeness when with her (mostly in EE scenes like the "stew scene" in TTT and the meduseld victory feast in ROTK) was down to the fact that he could see her interest in him and was concerned as to how hurt she would be when she realised that he did not reciprocate. This was illustrated in the farewell scene at Dunharrow in ROTK, when Aragorn tells Eowyn- "It is but a shadow and a thought whom you love" but then says " I have wished you joy since first I saw you". In the book, the latter phrase is said to her at Eowyn and Faramir's betrothal ie that Aragorn loves her platonically and wants her to be happy, but not that he wants anything more than this

"Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:56pm

Post #14 of 17 (335 views)
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exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

this is how i see it as well. I never once got the notion Aragorn was even remotely interested in her, just that he didn't want to outwardly hurt her feelings since he was in love and dedicated to Arwen and wouldn't abandon her even for a moment.


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 3 2013, 9:48pm

Post #15 of 17 (346 views)
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Had a look at the scene [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Maybe it's just me, but I never thought this was meant to be Aragorn's POV. I really feel compelled to pop in the disc right now to confirm my confusion. Tongue




It does appear to be Aragorn looking down, after his hand opens, with his palm about (guesstimating) 20 degrees tilted toward's Eowyn. So I think the issue of whether she could see what it is, I would guess yes, as Aragorn's hand is lower than her eyeline and it is slightly facing her direction in his left palm.

**(What I did refresh my memory with [although it is tangent-iitis to your initial comparison of the shots] is the stunned thankfulness of Aragorn, and the benevolent smile of Legolas. Acceptance of Aragorn's love for Arwen by an Elf prince?)**

All in all a lovely and complex bit of shots One Ringer (and thank you for the above kind words!) Angelic

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 8:30pm

Post #16 of 17 (257 views)
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Great observation! And I will add [In reply to] Can't Post

the contrast between the One Ring and Bilbo's hand. The One Ring is pristine looking, undamaged and unmarked despite its long history, but Bilbo's hands show lines, which are the effects of age and time passing.


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Apr 9 2013, 9:14pm

Post #17 of 17 (240 views)
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even if the point of view issue is not correct, it's still a pretty great comparison! [In reply to] Can't Post

And of course the Evenstar is such a wonderful object, especially in Aragorn's dirty hands and black surroundings. It's these tiny shots of stunning imagery which makes me captivated with the LOTR films!
Hope the Hobbit will have just as many... so far not too bad I suppose...

"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)
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