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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Bilbo & Frodo scene
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CathrineB
Rohan


Apr 6 2013, 6:51pm

Post #1 of 40 (1122 views)
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The Bilbo & Frodo scene Can't Post

Am I the only one that thinks the scene between Frodo and old Bilbo at the start of the movie is rather... awkward?
I can't pinpoint what it is, but it feels almost... wooden. Maybe not the right word.

I loved the acting in the rest of the movie, but that scene itself feels so weird. Unsure


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 6:58pm

Post #2 of 40 (620 views)
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yup.. it doesn't help that Bilbo's face has been digitally de-aged (badly) [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.theoutage.com/...11/bilbo-v-bilbo.jpg

They really should've removed this scene, but I guess they didn't want to disappoint the fans who were looking forward to seeing Frodo again... all 5 of them would've been very upset.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 6 2013, 6:59pm)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 6 2013, 7:00pm

Post #3 of 40 (580 views)
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I thought it was a nice tie-in [In reply to] Can't Post

and I imagine will be used again for the ending of TABA, maybe.

Maybe it seemed awkward because Frodo's part was very small and just helped guide Bilbo's narration about the history of Erebor and etc.


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 6 2013, 7:05pm

Post #4 of 40 (576 views)
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Awkwardness [In reply to] Can't Post

I sensed some, too. I feel like it was micro-machine-man-rushed. Do you realize how much content was packed into those few minutes? It seems like it could have been longer and less awkward, but if it were then it would have annoyed people who want to "get on with things" more. I also think it could have been less awkward if it was worked into the story a little bit more, which again would have taken more time that they really didn't seem to have.

At the same time, I really did get a thrill out of all the tie-ins within that short clip so I'm glad it was there!


Erally
Bree

Apr 6 2013, 7:32pm

Post #5 of 40 (534 views)
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For me [In reply to] Can't Post

It was the smile that Frodo gave Bilbo when he saw him writing... That's so fake, If he would he see his uncle everyday and loved him he didn't need to laugh everytime he saw him there ! that was such poor acting or directing, really just horrible..


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Apr 6 2013, 7:38pm

Post #6 of 40 (513 views)
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indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

i think the vastness of information we receive in such a short time is necessary for the the three films. it establishes the points of signifcance and gets that out of the way for when the narrative encounters those parts of the stories. the film won't have to stop and explain as much. and the vastness of the information delivered ties in with this being bilbo's recollection of the story in its establishment of key events before his own participation began. thus, the events before his own participation will come fast and furious to give the general essentials of what happened before the real story begins. i think i understand your point though. i wonder if they thought about the erebor part of the prologue being presented complete without any narrative dialogue. we would see what we need to without it running the risk of information overload. what is significant in the plot will truly be signficant if it deserves to be, thus we the audience don't need to be told explicitly that something is significant LOL. or maybe we do because the arkenstone bit would need a bit of explaining for its significance. but the wealth sickness, smaug the dragon, and elf betrayal sort of goes without saying lol. we can see it, don't need to hear it lol and still maintain the idea that bilbo is writing it. does what i say make sense?


(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on Apr 6 2013, 7:45pm)


Escapist
Gondor


Apr 6 2013, 7:38pm

Post #7 of 40 (547 views)
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It reminds me of what I consider to be some Americanisms [In reply to] Can't Post

when in doubt, smile and nod ... when you meet someone new, smile as a default reaction ... if a situation is at all awkward smile and hope it bounces off you ...


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 7:44pm

Post #8 of 40 (526 views)
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But Frodo wouldn't have seen him there everyday... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo had become reclusive and odd. Frodo smiles because he sees, for the first time, Bilbo sat in his study, beginning to write the book that he'd planned to start years ago.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 6 2013, 7:45pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 7:59pm

Post #9 of 40 (504 views)
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The way they move... [In reply to] Can't Post

That seemed very odd to me. Almost like they were waddling, I think - at least Frodo.

I'd have rather they just dropped the scene entirely.

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive." -Arwen


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 6 2013, 9:30pm

Post #10 of 40 (444 views)
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Old Bilbo seemed very tired... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ian Holm seemed very lethargic during the whole scene. And he didn't look the same to me. I'm aware that he's now in his 80s, but nevertheless it was striking to me how different he looked from FOTR, at least it was when I first saw AUJ. His hair looked wet and a lot stringier, and he obviously packed on a few pounds. I really didn't notice much of a difference in Frodo.


Elizabeth
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 9:34pm

Post #11 of 40 (452 views)
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It was a challenge. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's probably impossible to conceal the fact that this conversation is an artificial construct, deemed necessary to convey a whole lot of exposition to the viewers, in a conversation that would never have taken place in real life. It makes matters worse that this is constructed to link Hobbit to LotR assuming viewers have seen LotR first. Today that is true for many (but by no means all) viewers. In the future, much less so. So it will "age" the movie a lot.








Elizabeth
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 9:36pm

Post #12 of 40 (435 views)
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(Should I be celebrating?) [In reply to] Can't Post

The post above marked my landing on the shores of the Blessed Land at last!








Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Apr 6 2013, 9:36pm

Post #13 of 40 (489 views)
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Holy crap!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

The difference really is striking....


I can recall reading a few years ago that Guillermo del Toro had hoped to use Ian Holm as young Bilbo. No offense to Mr. Holm, who did a fine job as older Bilbo, but thank heavens we got Martin Freeman.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Apr 6 2013, 9:41pm)


vexx801
Rivendell


Apr 6 2013, 9:47pm

Post #14 of 40 (433 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

As much as I loved this scene, it felt... I don't know... maybe a little forced? I hesitate to say that, but I suppose I mean that when I looked at Frodo, I didn't see FotR Frodo but RotK Frodo. Granted, there's only so much you can do with CGI and makeup and his voice is of course aged by about a decade so of course he'll have had much more acting experiences and look and sound a little different (same with Ian, really), but I'm not sure if it was just the tone of the scene or what, but it felt "acted."

Does that make sense? I really enjoyed the scene, don't get me wrong, but after seeing it so many times I still get that feeling - that they were acting like Frodo and Bilbo and maybe not the ones I'd come to love over the years. Maybe it was the way the scene was directed, or maybe it was because in the trilogy they'd had much more time to get into the characters whereas this time they'd had all of the experience from the trilogy with those characters and had to act as if none of that had happened yet. Don't know, just feels forced.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Apr 6 2013, 9:52pm

Post #15 of 40 (459 views)
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I think Sir Ian Holm [In reply to] Can't Post

… would have been great as Bilbo perhaps 20 years ago. He does, after all, know the material inside out, and he is terrific as older Bilbo in FOTR. However, he has been ill and I don't think he could have played younger Bilbo now. Taking everything into consideration, I didn't have that much of a problem with his appearance in AUJ, and I loved his voiceover of the Erebor sequence.


In Reply To
The difference really is striking....


I can recall reading a few years ago that Guillermo del Toro had hoped to use Ian Holm as young Bilbo. No offense to Mr. Holm, who did a fine job as older Bilbo, but thank heavens we got Martin Freeman.



Starling
Half-elven


Apr 6 2013, 10:27pm

Post #16 of 40 (389 views)
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Most definitely [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations! Smile


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 6 2013, 11:09pm

Post #17 of 40 (396 views)
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I agree, and [In reply to] Can't Post

it would have been awesome for Ian Holm to be able to play young Bilbo (which I had actually assumed he would when it was announced TH would be a film, but I wasn't too aware of his age at the time), but Martin Freeman, I must say, is absolutely perfect for young Bilbo....in my opinion. Smile


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 6 2013, 11:35pm

Post #18 of 40 (363 views)
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Oh, my! [In reply to] Can't Post

*gets several glasses, retrieves bottle of bubbly miruvor from Fiesta refrigerator, pops cork* Congratulations, and welcome! And your arrival is well-earned, and well-deserved. Smile


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"






SirDennisC
Half-elven


Apr 6 2013, 11:50pm

Post #19 of 40 (389 views)
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"Felt acted" [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a thread about this back in January link. At the time I said it seemed like Elijah phoned in his performance. Yet I hesitate to pan the decision to include the bookend scene since it was done expressly for the fans. Perhaps we all learned something from this?


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Apr 6 2013, 11:51pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 7 2013, 12:31am

Post #20 of 40 (381 views)
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The difference is less obvious [In reply to] Can't Post

When comparing with a more flattering picture of Holm from AUJ.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Apr 7 2013, 12:59am

Post #21 of 40 (359 views)
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Fat chance of that. [In reply to] Can't Post

;)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Apr 7 2013, 1:10am

Post #22 of 40 (325 views)
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Congratulations Elizabeth! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 7 2013, 1:19am

Post #23 of 40 (358 views)
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When I watched AUJ the first time [In reply to] Can't Post

on blu ray, I'm not sure if it was my TV settings, but I thought Holm's face almost looked...cartoony? Is that how you guys are seeing the age editing?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 7 2013, 1:24am

Post #24 of 40 (350 views)
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The de-aging is most obvious on Balin in the flashback. It looks very creepy // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 7 2013, 1:29am

Post #25 of 40 (347 views)
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Oh! [In reply to] Can't Post

I do think I noticed that, it wasn't super obvious to me but I can recall his face in that scene now that I've seen it a gazillion times.

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