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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
**Call for Geeky Observations**
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Apr 6 2013, 11:41am

Post #1 of 38 (1198 views)
**Call for Geeky Observations** Can't Post

Howdy All!

Now that we have The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey in our own machines at home, I'm sure that pause button has gotten a workout ;) So I'm expecting quite an impressive bunch of additions for our Geeky Observation List (latest update in link at bottom of my post).

*rubs hands together* OK! LET THEM COME!

3rd draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observation List - updated for DVD release!!!


I'm SO HAPPY these new films take me back to that magical world!!

TIME Google Calendar
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists (updated soon)

The Prancing Pony

Apr 6 2013, 12:57pm

Post #2 of 38 (622 views)
I'd really love to contribute [In reply to] Can't Post

some more geeky observations about the little things and attention to detail that make AUJ so great. But unfortunately I still have to wait nearly two weeks till I can finally buy the DVD. Crazy
As it is, the only thing that makes the wait bearable is reading other people's observations so that I can check them when I have the opportunity, and getting myself spoilt as much as possible for DOS.

Keep up the great work Smile

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."


Apr 6 2013, 1:21pm

Post #3 of 38 (590 views)
Same here [In reply to] Can't Post

Still waiting (in the UK)......... Unimpressed


Apr 6 2013, 1:21pm

Post #4 of 38 (651 views)
Kili arriving at Bag End.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see this one that i emailed on your list yet. I think it goes somewhere around number 120.....I slipped in some opinion there, sorry. Edit at will, of course.

Of all the Dwarves entering Bag End, only Kili comments on Bilbo's hobbit hole when he says "This is nice. Did you do it yourself" a statement quite odd for a Dwarf since the hobbit hole is completely lined with wood. There is definitely something coming with Kili and his (lovely) open minded attitude towards Elves and wood.

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:

Riven Delve
Tol Eressea

Apr 6 2013, 1:53pm

Post #5 of 38 (619 views)
Not sure if this counts [In reply to] Can't Post

but I didn't see it on the list...

During old Bilbo's narration about the loss of Erebor, he says of Thorin, "But always, he remembered the mountain smoke beneath the moon, the trees like torches blazing bright."

These are references to the Misty Mountains song from the book, where the corresponding words are:

"The mountains smoked beneath the moon"
"The trees like torches blazed with light." (This is the only one that makes it into the movie song.)

The rest of old Bilbo's words in the narration, "where he had seen dragon fire in the sky, and a city turn to ash," are more general but can also refer to the book song: "The bells were ringing in the dale/And men looked up with faces pale;/The dragon's ire more fierce than fire/Laid low their towers and houses frail."

I'm afraid you might have to condense that. Wink

Thanks for your lovely list!

"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


Apr 6 2013, 2:52pm

Post #6 of 38 (579 views)
Gandalf's conjuring trick [In reply to] Can't Post

While I would never call him a 'conjurer of cheap tricks', when Gandalf shows Thorin the key to the hidden door, Gandalf presents the key with a motion very like a stage magician conjuring an object out of thin air. A nice flourish.


Apr 6 2013, 3:44pm

Post #7 of 38 (569 views)
Some observations for you Gramma! and a close up of the Orcrist pommel detail [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is a shot of the pommel design on Orcrist. It appears to be four trees growing with their leaves dividing and in the center of the version I have are four black negative-relief jewel shapes cut into the metal.

In Bag End, when Balin and Dwalin are greeting each other, Bilbo leans out the door in befuddlement, and looks around, as if to say "How many MORE of these are out here?"
Beneath the Fir trees Bifur saves Bilbo by taking out a Warg (headed right for him) with a rock just as Gandalf yells "Climb!" the second time.
Add to #686: We see the first glint of hope on Thorin's eyes when he sees the thrush for himself.

I love reading the list Gramma, thank you so much and looking forward to Draft 3!!!!!!Heart

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


Apr 6 2013, 3:54pm

Post #8 of 38 (539 views)
You own Orcrist? Awesome! Very jealous :-)/ [In reply to] Can't Post



Apr 6 2013, 4:04pm

Post #9 of 38 (533 views)
Thanks Daniel! It was a lovely birthday gift! [In reply to] Can't Post

They did a wonderful job with the sword, I couldn't be happier with it! Its very front-weighted, they got the 'cleaver' aspect quite perfect. Smile

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


Apr 6 2013, 4:22pm

Post #10 of 38 (558 views)
cool screencap site [In reply to] Can't Post

redgiraffe linked to this site earlier in the week and I was impressed with the screencaps its gathered.

The only drawbacks are, they have gathered so many, often just seconds apart, that it would take a long time to view them all. And the images are larger than my widescreen monitor and I have to constantly scroll left or right to get at the 'next' buttons.

But they could be a good asset for geeky observations.


It looks like you can rate images and/or register to keep track of your favorites. I would recommend that people rate pictures they think are particularly good in some way which could make those appear in the 'Top Rated' sorting for people who don't have time to look at everything.

I spent too much time yesterday just looking through prologue images. There part of the prologue that shows life in Erebor can be compared to similar scenes in FOTR that show life in Hobbiton, particularly scenes in the village common area of Hobbiton. Erebor seemed particularly to be a marketplace. I suppose Hobbiton might have been, too. But it's interesting that I never got that vibe of 'selling'.

I noticed lots of toys and childlike amusements, many mechanical in nature. The merry go round. Some wooden (I presume) toys that looked like they could be jointed. Erebor marketplace Have you guys noted which animals are in the merry-go-round? I can see a rooster and something with curled horns similar to a ram. And a horse like creature with blue spots (a horse of a different color?)

And a vendor selling jewelry. In Hobbiton, I mostly remember (I'm not going to go check screencaps, forgive me) produce and animals.

So, Hobbiton, very agrarian. Erebor, more 'urban', if you will. These are products and amusements that are manufactured. (although, there is produce shown in Erebor) And I think they illustrate a fascination with both mechanical contraptions (I have a husband who's an engineer... he's got a mechanical mind!) and jewels and metals (the jewelry).

The dress and hairstyles of some in Erebor is also much fancier than in Hobbiton. And there's more adornment.

The other thing we notice immediately is that there are big folk mixed with the Dwarves. We only saw Hobbits in Hobbiton. So we get a sense of how much each culture is mixing with others.

In this picture, we can see a minstrel/musician. I'm not sure we saw that in Hobbiton. (outside of the party)

All the tall people in these marketplace scenes seem to be Men, to me. But the person at the top right of this picture looks Elvish to me. It's the hairstyle - quite long, fairly straight, and parted so the ear shows - that makes me think this.

Could someone who has the dvd take a look at the people in the open space next to the musician take a look and see if they are just milling around or dancing? It's hard to tell from the screenshots.

I also see a peacock in this area with the musician and Elf-ish character. :-)

My last observation is, we saw lots of drinking and smoking in Hobbiton but I don't think I saw either in Erebor. :-) I'd have to go back to the FOTR screenshots to take note but I bet we saw people eating, right? But I'm not sure I saw any eating going in Erebor. Again, if this pans out by taking a fresh look at each scene on DVD, it serves to establish (in sometimes subtle ways) the differences between the two cultures and cities/villages.

LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Apr 6 2013, 4:24pm

Post #11 of 38 (536 views)
check out the link to screencaps I posted elsewhere in this thread [In reply to] Can't Post

If you want to check them out before the dvd comes.

But perhaps you want to view the dvd fresh w/o going over the screenshots. :-)

LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

The Shire

Apr 6 2013, 4:49pm

Post #12 of 38 (525 views)
I don't know if this will qualify as a geeky observation [In reply to] Can't Post

But I noticed that the dwarves have a tendency to refer to each other as "Brother". At first I noticed it when Dwalin and Balin greet each other at Bagend but then I noticed it also throughout the film and that while they seem to usually refer to their actual blood kin in this manner they also use it in general for other members of the comany. I believe one of them says something like "Run Brothers!" when they are being chased by the wargs either before they reach Rivendell or at the very end when they are fleeing Azog. (I have to watch it again to be sure.)

Aragalen the Green

Apr 6 2013, 4:53pm

Post #13 of 38 (522 views)
Lines from the Book [In reply to] Can't Post

I have noticed that some of the lines from the book have been changed, most notably for me is Bilbo's description of Bag-End. In the movie he ends the line "and all the comforts of home", whereas in the book the description reads "it was a Hobbit hole, and that means comfort". I missed the original Frown

However, many of the lines from the book are used for the Troll scene, including "mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer". And the "sit on them and squash them into jelly" line, and "he wouldn't make above a mouthful, not when he was skinned and boned".

My favorite lines are from the "Good morning" scene! Especially Bilbo's comment to Gandalf: "I had no idea you were still in business" Gandalf replies: "where else should I be?"

But my very favorite line from AUJ that comes straight from the book, although slightly changed, is when Bilbo tells Gandalf "we don't want any adventures here, thank you! You might try over The Hill or across The Water". (in the movie Bilbo says "we do not want any adventures here, thank you, not today! I suggest you try over The Hill or across The Water"). The mention of the areas around Hobbiton--The Hill and The Water--really brings the magic from the Book into the movie home for me.

Not sure how this fits into geeky observations, but I dearly love to pick out the book-dialogue used in the movie!!

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Apr 6 2013, 5:07pm

Post #14 of 38 (521 views)
just after radagast joins up with the company [In reply to] Can't Post

they are attacked by a warg... which makes a +beeline+ for thorin.

stalking him? under someone's orders?

cheers ---


aka. fili orc-enshield
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel


Apr 6 2013, 5:19pm

Post #15 of 38 (518 views)
I think Ori should have been the only dwarf to be open-minded toward elves [In reply to] Can't Post

In Moria in FotR Gandalf recognises Ori's hand-writing because it is clear and he preferred to use elf-runes. I think it would've been cool to make him more fond of elves than the others because of this. But we can't expect PJ to pick up on every tiny detail.

(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 6 2013, 5:19pm)

Tol Eressea

Apr 6 2013, 6:02pm

Post #16 of 38 (493 views)
sparks [In reply to] Can't Post

I noticed (and my usual observation disclaimer-if anyone has noted it already I just missed it and I apologize)

That fire sparks are used from what I can see three times- you see sparks flying up outside of Erebor's front gate when the dwarves are escaping the dragon, you see sparks flying up out of Bilbo's chimney, and you see sparks flying up as Thorin is running slow motion towards Azog in the confrontation after Goblintown. Great reminder of the theme of fire throughout the movie Smile

Also, Bilbo's fireplace has pine cones in a basket next to it while the dwarves are singing- apparently pine cones make very good fire starters Wink Nice nod to the pine cones later on in the warg fight.

When Gandalf talks about all good stories deserve some embellishment, you see Oin and (I think) Gloin in the background with Ori, Ori is writing, and Oin points to his book and leans back laughing-perhaps he is embellishing a story he is telling Ori so Ori can record it in his book?

When the dwarves cross the bridge into Rivendell, You see that some of the dwarves' gear is messed up. What looks like either Fili's cloak or blanket is dragging on the ground behind him.

Just before the dwarves tumble through the trap doors in Goblin town, you see that Fili has a rolled up blanket and what looks like a blue folded blanket under his head as well as a blanket laid under him, yet Kili, who is sleeping next to him, has nothing under him or over him except what looks like a blanket under his lower legs (and Fili's too I think but not sure). Also, Kili's theme color seems to be blue but Fili's is a burnt red-and the blanket under Fili's head is blue but I believe the blanket under his body is red. Perhaps Fili was a little sore after being smashed in the mountain (YES it was Fili even though Thorin yells Kili!) or Kili was concerned about his brother so gave him his blankets for the night to cradle his head and neck? Nice show of brotherly concern and affection (and perhaps an indication that no dwarves are not indestructible as Goblintown suggests!)

That's all I can think of for now but I will keep my eyes open and my finger on the pause button! Cool

Half Elven Daughter of Celethian of the Woodland Realm


Apr 6 2013, 8:24pm

Post #17 of 38 (464 views)
Both the warts in one attack go straight for Thorin /// [In reply to] Can't Post


My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:

Registered User

Apr 6 2013, 8:48pm

Post #18 of 38 (471 views)
Dwarf 'climbing the walls' in "Blunt the Knives" scene... [In reply to] Can't Post

As the words "pantry floor" are sung, and Kili throws a plate that Fili catches over his shoulder -- just before Fili pops into the frame from being bent down, you cna see that Kili is actually completely perched in the door frame, feet off the floor and holding himself up with his back against one side of the door frame.

(I like how both Fili and Bifur can catch something from behind without watching it, and then later Bifur managing to not only turn at precisely the right moment--with a stack of dishes in the other hand no less--from being faced in entirely the opposite direction to catch the utensil Kili throws to him...and just below the forked end rather than getting speared by it. Nori also manages to duck without really looking up)

In that same moment off th the right on the shelf, along with yellow goo spilled in several places, you can see the label on the bottle of wine. It says "XXXXXX wine" and has the date 1341 or 1361, and two initials below [perhaps someone with a larger screen or higher def can read what the first word is and more clearly see the rest of the content? Smile]

Branching geekdom: don't know a particular scene, but under the right circumstances, a wrinkle joins the two parallel, diagonal scars on Balin's forehead, resembling a Harry Potter lightning bolt Wink


Apr 6 2013, 8:49pm

Post #19 of 38 (450 views)
You can get a treatment for that [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone should tell him. Wink


Apr 6 2013, 10:01pm

Post #20 of 38 (440 views)
Dwarf tossing! And some Azog stuff [In reply to] Can't Post

At Azanulbizar, there is an Orc throwing a Dwarf off a cliff (I believe it's during the part of the narration where Balin is talking about the Orcs getting the upper hand, and defeat being upon the Dwarves). I know it's totally inappropriate, but I giggle inwardly every time I see it. Laugh

Also, here are some Azog observations. For some reason most of them are about what he's doing with his hands. (Don't look at me, I only notice this stuff!)
  • After beheading Thror, Azog is holding the Dwarf King's head in one hand and a knife in the other. I guess the knife is what he used to cut off Thror's head and carve his name on it with. (Nope, no matter how cool Azog is, I'm pretty sure he didn't behead Thror with his mace.)
  • Azog appears to be right-handed, but it's his left arm that's cut off by Thorin. Just before that happens, he wields the mace with both hands and then switches it to his left hand. So that's how it's his left arm that ends up severed.
  • Azog pets his Warg during the Weathertop scene. Aww! Blush
  • Just before Azog kills Yazneg, he kind of strokes the other Orc's head with his right hand. So when he picks Yazneg up to throw him, Azog is using his left hand. That's the claw hand. Although you can't see it clearly, it seems that Azog actually stabs Yazneg through the throat with his claw! Ouch. Crazy
  • In the scene with Azog tracking the Company's scent through the mountain passes, the White Warg is sniffing out their trail... and so is Azog from on top of the Warg. I thought that was cute.
  • Okay, last one! When the Company is chased up the trees and Azog delivers his "Do you smell it?" line, he briefly runs his claw hand through the White Warg's fur. I guess it doubles as a comb? Laugh

Orcs are mammals!

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


Apr 7 2013, 12:32am

Post #21 of 38 (395 views)
Possibly Elderflower Wine, 1341 [In reply to] Can't Post

Link to screencap


Apr 7 2013, 12:46am

Post #22 of 38 (383 views)
Hey! That vendor is a bearded lady -- [In reply to] Can't Post

the rumours are true after all. Thanks Magpie.


Apr 7 2013, 5:42am

Post #23 of 38 (381 views)
Don't know if anybody has mentioned this [In reply to] Can't Post

We start into the AUJ prologue panning out of Bilbo writing in his book and fade into a map of Middle Earth. In the Fellowship we get just the opposite at the end of the prologue with Bilbo sitting in the same position pulling out from the map and focusing on Bilbo. (It might be only like that in the EE, haven't seen the theatrical in so long that I don't even remember.)


Apr 7 2013, 5:51am

Post #24 of 38 (341 views)
LOL some typos are funny! /// [In reply to] Can't Post


My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:


Apr 7 2013, 1:48pm

Post #25 of 38 (315 views)
Pommel carving [In reply to] Can't Post

Not trees, but fountains. Presumably the makers wanted to link it to Ecthelion of the Fountain, an elf-lord of Gondolin, though there is no written documentation that he originally wielded Orcrist. But if it was Ecthelion, the sword would have slain a Balrog (Gothmog), just like Glamdring :D.

Such a gorgeous sword. Very jealous. Though I have my Sting letter-opener, which makes me smile even when I'm opening bills! :).

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