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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Where in Middle Earth are the High Fells?
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easterlingchief1
Rivendell


Apr 5 2013, 5:39am

Post #1 of 33 (2046 views)
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Where in Middle Earth are the High Fells? Can't Post

There's been a lot of talk about the High Fells lately, what with that scene between Gandalf and Radagast being screen as part of the live event lat week. But I've been wondering for a while now, where are the High Fells in Middle Earth? I've been a ringer for a long time now, and this is a location I've never heard of.


Fredeghar Wayfarer
Lorien


Apr 5 2013, 5:45am

Post #2 of 33 (1278 views)
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Invented for the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

As far as I can recall, Tolkien never uses the term "High Fells." In the movie, they're referred to as the High Fells of Rhudaur. That would put them in the Trollshaws area, since that was once part of the kingdom of Rhudaur (one of the three states that split off of Arnor during a civil war).

However, that scene's in movie 2 now so I'm not sure how that will work.Will Gandalf go back across the Misty Mountains? I wonder if the movie version of Rhudaur has wider borders. Maybe the High Fells are in the mountains themselves or in Rhovanion.


(This post was edited by Fredeghar Wayfarer on Apr 5 2013, 5:50am)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 5 2013, 5:56am

Post #3 of 33 (1174 views)
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they're beneath the misty mountains [In reply to] Can't Post

in the script it says...."As the dwarves journey across the misty mountains, Gandalf ventures under them."


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


DanielLB
Immortal


Apr 5 2013, 8:44am

Post #4 of 33 (1079 views)
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Unlikely to be at Trollshaws [In reply to] Can't Post

A Fell is often used to describe a mountainous region/area. Trollshaws wasn't very mountain-y.

That puts the High Fells anywhere between Angmar and the Ettenmoors, to the Misty Mountains. It could even be near the Weather Hills.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 5 2013, 11:01am

Post #5 of 33 (1054 views)
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west of the Misty Mountains, between Ettenmoors and Rivendell [In reply to] Can't Post

Galadriel stated that the tombs of the High Fells were in Rhudaur, which does have a place called the Coldfells.
So I believe they renamed it for the movie with the more dramatic name of High Fells. You can see it on the attached
map, which has Rhudaur outlined in red.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.

Attachments: rhudaur_map.jpg (46.6 KB)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 5 2013, 11:37am

Post #6 of 33 (980 views)
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But Coldfells is a more dramatic name // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Apr 5 2013, 11:41am

Post #7 of 33 (1017 views)
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Is it "High Fells," a place-name? Or is it just a description ("high fells")? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just wondering, from the map (thank you for that, by the way!), whether some of the other mountains on the borders could be the "high fells" Galadriel spoke of, rather than Coldfells.

I had been assuming, being rather fuzzy on where the borders of Rhudaur were, that these "high fells" were further north, near Angmar's kingdom (which seems a logical place for the burial). That would have been a bit of a trek for Gandalf, but in the past PJ hasn't been overly concerned with long distances traveled in short times! Wink


"I left the night, with its remote and singing stars, and came in, to the glow of the fire, and the chair where he had been sitting, and the unstrung harp." --The Last Enchantment


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 5 2013, 11:57am

Post #8 of 33 (1032 views)
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So that's DoS's intro, then? [In reply to] Can't Post

The scene we saw in the sneak peek (http://youtu.be/bwFldZ6-9jI) will be the prologue (as it happened in AUJ's timeframe) then will cut to the dwarves and Gandalf smoking and pondering what he found. Or something similar

It could even start similarly to TTT, showing the misty mountains and then zooming inside them.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 5 2013, 11:58am)


Glum
Bree

Apr 5 2013, 12:02pm

Post #9 of 33 (987 views)
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What??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who made this scene available? I didn't know it was on youtube, thank you :)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Apr 5 2013, 12:46pm

Post #10 of 33 (942 views)
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huh [In reply to] Can't Post

im confused as well, the nazgul were buried in the high fells? in rhudaur?

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 5 2013, 1:15pm

Post #11 of 33 (952 views)
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MordorCasst video... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.thelandofshadow.com/...fells-of-of-rhudaur/


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Æ Victoria Monfort






DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 5 2013, 1:32pm

Post #12 of 33 (952 views)
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There is another factor: [In reply to] Can't Post

... which is, the difficulty of understanding the alternative line as it would be spoken by Galadriel. I would bet that 99% of the audience
did not catch the word "Rhudaur" when she spoke it for the first time in the movie. Couple that with "Coldfells" and a line
such as "...in the Coldfells of Rhudaur" might sound like "...in the Coleslaw of Rhubarb" to the average movie goer. "High Fells",
on the other hand, is easily understood as a place name.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 5 2013, 1:34pm

Post #13 of 33 (978 views)
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When does/did Gandalf visit the High Fells? [In reply to] Can't Post

If the High Fells are near the Ettenmoors doesn't it make sense that Gandalf visited them shortly after the trolls, after seeing the Morgul Blade? He even says of the trolls "They must've come down from the Ettenmoors" which is kind of a big hint that something is going on up there that they should check-out.

But since they've apparently shifted the narrative will this scene now be a flashback, perhaps a prologue, or will the tomb simply be relocated to somewhere the other side of the Misty Mountains?

Surely Gandalf won't travel all the way back to look at the tomb? Although I guess there does need to be another White Council meeting at some point?


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 5 2013, 1:36pm)


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Apr 5 2013, 1:58pm

Post #14 of 33 (945 views)
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It HAS to be a flashback.... [In reply to] Can't Post

If it isn't, then either Jackson's redrawn the borders of Rhudaur, or Gandalf has gone back over the mountains, which would be ridiculous considering what just happened in Goblin-Town with the company barely escaping with their necks. Of course, Gandalf and Radagast ARE both Ainur, so maybe it is possible. Just seems unlikely.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Apr 5 2013, 2:48pm

Post #15 of 33 (877 views)
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Thanks for the link to the video. [In reply to] Can't Post

It was pretty well done (cheesy narration and all), and very informative.

I have yet to get any of the books, so i hadn't seen those images. The High Fells look great, very sinister and haunting-- i can't wait to see them in DoS. And it does indeed seem that we'll be seeing these scenes in flashback, otherwise it makes no sense. I know this plot thread is an invention of Jackson's, so i remain somewhat skeptical. But everything i've seen of this storyline so far looks awesome, very moody and atmospheric, and i for one think The Hobbit films could use a bit more of that sort of thing, so i'm optimistic.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 5 2013, 3:21pm

Post #16 of 33 (909 views)
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But when was it supposed to have happened? [In reply to] Can't Post

When watching the Troll scene, there's really nowhere the events would fit. It can't be before Radagast, because Radagast is in the scene and hasn't told Gandalf about the Morgul Blade. But as soon as the Morgul Blade is shown the wargs attack.

The only other place is after Rivendell... So Gandalf goes all the way back up and then heads for Misty Mountains in time to save the group...


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Apr 5 2013, 3:26pm

Post #17 of 33 (881 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

It was supposed to have happened after Rivendell, and was supposedly the reason Gandalf was late joining the group in Goblin-Town. Since we're now past that point geographically, it could only work in DoS as a flashback. That is, of course, assuming that the Rhudaur of the film has the same borders as the Rhudaur from the books.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 5 2013, 3:32pm

Post #18 of 33 (907 views)
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Yes, it has to be that way [In reply to] Can't Post

Because only at the WC does Gandalf learn, via Galadriel, that the Witch-King was buried in a tomb
"deep within the High Fells of Rhudaur". Saruman then asks what proof they have that the blade
came from Angmar's grave, and Gandalf replies, "I have none". And, of course, after the meeting ends,
Galadriel tells Gandalf that "The riddle of the Morgul Blade must be answered". None of this would make
sense if Gandalf had already been there. Ergo this scene will probably happen in flashback to the time before
Goblin Town but after the WC, or if not then Gandalf will have to recross the Misty Mountains at some point.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



QuackingTroll
Valinor


Apr 5 2013, 3:37pm

Post #19 of 33 (904 views)
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Ah of course. That makes sense. But... [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf covers a lot of space in a short space of time (unless as suggested before, the tomb is under the Misty Mountains, not up near the Ettenmoors). How does he manage to go so far back but still catch-up? Hope they don't introduce another silly animal to ride.

also when will the flashback happen? As a prologue or (I prefer) when Gandalf's telling the tale to Beorn.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Apr 5 2013, 3:38pm)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Apr 5 2013, 4:12pm

Post #20 of 33 (896 views)
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Answers... [In reply to] Can't Post

...to the best of my ability:

1) There is enough time for Gandalf to have gone off to investigate the High Fells after Rivendell, because we
are not actually told how much time passes between the Dwarves leaving Rivendell and their encounter with the
goblins. All we see is a montage of travel shots. It simply requires Gandalf to be able to travel faster than the
Company, which is not unreasonable.

2) The High Fells are not under the Misty Mountains. Check out the concept art illustration of the High Fells
in the Weta book, shown at point 4:11 of the MordorCast video referenced in Eleniel's post above.

3) Probably the High Fells scene will not be the prologue beginning of DOS, because it is too slow and creepy;
I would bet that it will happen some time around the Beorn scene, possibly, as you suggest, as a tale told
at Beorn's house, perhaps after some prompting by Bilbo and / or the Dwarves.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Apr 5 2013, 5:36pm

Post #21 of 33 (831 views)
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Sorry, I forgot the link gets contracted when posted... [In reply to] Can't Post

I should have put a proper description of what the video was in my post! It discusses the possible location of the "High Fells of Rhudaur" in terms of what canon can tell us and how much is movie only, and includes visuals from the Weta Chronicles and the clips we've seen so far in the various teasers and trailers.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Æ Victoria Monfort






NoelGallagher
Rohan

Apr 5 2013, 8:32pm

Post #22 of 33 (799 views)
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By the fact [In reply to] Can't Post

that the High Fells are totally invented and PJ is directing i assume that this scene will be in "real time" and not a flashback. . Why ? Because its the most unlikely possibility ! Does that makes sense ? ;)

For a Prologue its to slow and IMO not the best way to introduce the second movie, i prefer the Beorn-Torture-Bolg-Idea.

I also remember Peter says in the DoS "Gandalf GOES" to the High Fells. Thats maybe not a big fact but i guess it also can mean that he will do it in the movie and not as a flashback. I think we will see this scene happening right after the company leaves Beorn and Gandalf leaves the company.

Maybe Radagast discovers Gandalf while he was on his way back to Rhosgobel and follows him..thats why hes in the Fells too. Just my idea...


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 6 2013, 12:24am

Post #23 of 33 (796 views)
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Mostly descriptive, I think. [In reply to] Can't Post

Like saying "in the foothills". That's a descriptive term, but often will have a place-name element to it if one is near a particular mountain range.

A "fell" is a highland moor or plateau. The Ettenmoors were also referred to as the Troll-fells, so from that map I'd say that the High Fells could be located in several places: the North Downs, the Weather Hills, or anywhere from the Ettenmoors south through the Coldfells.

I agree with you, Riven Delve. My pick would be on the northern end of the North Downs. The battle in which the Witch-king was defeated and forced to flee to Mordor (and presumably in the new movie canon defeated and entombed) took place on the plains to the West of the North Downs. So a tomb in the uplands (High Fells) of the North Downs, on the borders of Rhudaur, Angmar and Arthedain (the major players in the wars) seems the most likely place for a tomb for the fallen Nazgul. And distances don't really matter: geography is sacrificed for plot reasons on a regular basis, when it isn't being gotten totally wrong *coughLegolascough*. My guess is they'll leave it vague and never show us exactly where it is in the films.

Silverlode

Dark is the water of Kheled-zāram,' said Gimli, 'and cold are the springs of Kibil-nāla.



MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Apr 6 2013, 1:12am

Post #24 of 33 (1058 views)
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High Fells will be a flashback [In reply to] Can't Post

how will PJ show Gandalf going to the High Fells in real-time?? i doubt it. Unless he goes there after he leaves the dwarves at the edge of mirkwood.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


NoelGallagher
Rohan

Apr 6 2013, 7:14am

Post #25 of 33 (756 views)
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just like you said [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess right after leaving Beorn.

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