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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Do you think that Thorins role at the lonely mountain will be increased.
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Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:32am

Post #1 of 34 (1074 views)
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Do you think that Thorins role at the lonely mountain will be increased. Can't Post

As i mentioned in another post ,WAYYYY back.I don't think it's a very heroic thing, to allow Bilbo to go in Smaugs lair alone.How will they justify this, without the Dwarves looking cowardly? Will Thorin maybe go in (but behind Bilbo) with him.Seeing as Thorin as been portrayed as this BA warrior with no fear of anything (including trolls) I can't see him waiting outside the mountain, telling Bilbo on to go into Smaugs lair alone as it will seem cowardy on Thorins part.How will they make the indomitable Movie Thorin, still look like the courageous leader that he is without relying on Bilbo too much. So now that we've seen the movie and what Thorins portryal is like what do you think.?

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Apr 3 2013, 1:41am)


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Apr 3 2013, 1:42am

Post #2 of 34 (687 views)
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It's already been explained! [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo has a scent that is unfamiliar to Smaug.

I don't find this bit a problem anyway. They're not expecting him to slay Smaug for them, after all...just check out the situation. And they know about his ring by this point, IIRC.


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:47am

Post #3 of 34 (565 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

it'll be something like, Thorin will say as per the contract you signed, you go in and we'll stand watch behind you (since Smaug doesn't know the scent of a hobbit, as mentioned by the person above me) Smile


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:49am

Post #4 of 34 (606 views)
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Yes i know about the ring and all that. [In reply to] Can't Post

But from a cinematic perspective, are they really going to use that reason, that his smell is unrecognisable.It seems silly.What is Thorin going to do in the mean time? Wait outside cursing Smaug and getting frustrated with the Dwarves because he can't go in.lol
I've got a feeling, when RA said he'll go face to face with Cumberbatch he meant something else.Cool I truly believe he'll confront Smaug face to face, mono e mono and Smaug will tantalize Thorin about his past.It seems theres an ongoing pattern of enemies exasperating Thorin.The goblin king,Azog and now Smaug.

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Apr 3 2013, 1:55am)


Kimtc
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:56am

Post #5 of 34 (576 views)
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Do you think this confrontation will be a la Azog? [In reply to] Can't Post

"I've got a feeling, when RA said he'll go face to face with Cumberbatch he meant something else.Cool I truly beleive he'll confront Smaug face to face, mono e mono"

His confrontation with Azog didn't go well, and Bilbo (and eagles) came in to save the day. Will he try to confront/fight Smaug, only to almost get his posterior handed to him, and Bard comes in to save the day?



tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:56am

Post #6 of 34 (554 views)
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I can see that too [In reply to] Can't Post

since Thorin's movie character is a little bit ahead of book Thorin, I can see him joining Bilbo in the confrontation. But then there's that still of Bilbo in all the gold by himself looking up at (what's presumably) Smaug, so who knows!!


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 3 2013, 1:59am

Post #7 of 34 (557 views)
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Like I've said earlier, I'm expecting the confrontation [In reply to] Can't Post

will happen (if it will happen) outside on mountainside, when Smaug bursts out from his lair. It's especially likely if this will indeed be the end point of DoS for Bilbo and the company.
I hope Bilbo goes to meet Smaug alone. The dragon's impact will be greater the more vulnerable Bilbo seems, and also because Bilbo was alone during the riddles scene and I hope the movies will play on these two moments of the story being "sisters" to eachothers, and show how the journey has changed Bilbo.


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 3 2013, 2:03am)


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 2:15am

Post #8 of 34 (574 views)
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Richard said face to face. [In reply to] Can't Post

So i'm thinking up close and personal is the way they'll go.Perhaps even after the exchange between Bilbo and Smaug, Thorin comes in.It seems they are focusing alot on Thorin's story and Smaug's depredation is a part of Thorins history, so Smaug will have a thing or two to say to poor thorin and degrade him to the utmost.From a cinematic perspective, i can see this happening in order to get the audience to sympathise with Thorin.I'm not saying it's a good thing but it may happen.Frown Wink

Edit: As a matter of fact i bet my Left leg, that Smaug will in someway confront Thorin, Face to Face in the movie.

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Apr 3 2013, 2:18am)


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 3 2013, 2:23am

Post #9 of 34 (521 views)
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You could very well be right [In reply to] Can't Post

and the way you describe it, I wouldn't really have a problem with that (I think it might actually work very well if that is indeed the end of the second movie). As long as Bilbo has his time alone with Smaug first.Smile


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 2:25am

Post #10 of 34 (531 views)
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The Dwarves need something to do. [In reply to] Can't Post

Rather than just Huddle in fear they need to do something while Bilbo confronts Smaug.Perhaps Kili will try and shoot the dragon lol.Laugh
But in all seriousness the Dwarves need to be doing something from a cinematic point of view but what is the question.This is why i think Azog will confront them on the lonely mountain again.Yes there i said i,t i think that Azog will turn up with his minions and Thorin kills Azog then and there and a small battle between the orcs and 13 Dwarves ensues.

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 3 2013, 2:40am

Post #11 of 34 (521 views)
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I don't necessarily agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think the dwarves really need anything spectacular to do. We could leave the Dwarves as Bilbo enters the mountain and the audience would quickly forget them while being engaged with the confrontation with Bilbo and Smaug. It's only if that confrontation is not done well will the audience's mind start to wander and start thinking: "Hey, I wonder what the dwarves are up to?". If that happens, that part of the story is in serious trouble and no amount of dwarf on orc action can save it.
That's why I don't think the confrontation between Thorin and Smaug needs to happen until Smaug bursts outside.


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 3 2013, 2:42am)


Thorins_apprentice
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 2:44am

Post #12 of 34 (503 views)
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Yeh, you could be right. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just realised something.Hilarious really.Thorin has no ring so he can't go in.LMAO!Laugh

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Apr 3 2013, 2:49am)


Kelly of Water's Edge
Lorien

Apr 3 2013, 10:41am

Post #13 of 34 (412 views)
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Well, that is what Bilbo signed up for. [In reply to] Can't Post

He knew that he was joining up to be the group's thief and scout. They just wanted to scope out the area. Keep in mind that the priority at the time was trying not to wake Smaug up. Balin following far enough to call the group in if he heard Bilbo get into trouble was enough for what they were trying to accomplish at that point. Trying to keep quiet isn't cowardly - it's smart. Of course things didn't end up going that way, but that was the intention.

Considering that they're stretching things out to three movies I suspect that there's going to be alot for all the dwarves to do, but I don't think they'll be involved in Bilbo's little scouting mission. This is "The Hobbit" after all, and Riddles in the Dark and the confrontation with Smaug are Bilbo's two really big signature moments.

It will be interesting to see what Richard Armitage's comment means though. If there's a skirmish it won't go very well for the Dwarves since we know how things will eventually play out with Smaug.


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Apr 3 2013, 10:51am

Post #14 of 34 (407 views)
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From what we've seen from Smaug's Lair, [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo is there all by himself

Vocalist in the progressive metal band Renamed.


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 11:32am

Post #15 of 34 (379 views)
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book [In reply to] Can't Post

if you read the book its explained pretty well in there!

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 12:43pm

Post #16 of 34 (360 views)
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Honestly I hope not [In reply to] Can't Post

I want it to remain as close to the book as possible since that is one of the key moments from the book. Bilbo all alone with Smaug. Having Armitage facing the dragon really doesn't do anything for the story IMO. Only thing I see it doing is taking away from Bilbo which would be a bad thing. Besides haven't they added to and changed Thorin's story enough already? I say bilbo and Smaug alone will be good enough.


Macfeast
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 1:55pm

Post #17 of 34 (327 views)
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Indeed. [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the dwarves going with Bilbo would have rendered perhaps the company's only advantage - that Smaug would not notice a fleet-footed Hobbit of an unfamiliar smell (something which Gandalf explicitly spells out in the film, so going back on that now would be weird) - moot. Courageous? Maybe. Stupid? Most certainly; You don't throw away your only advantage for the sake of looking brave.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Apr 3 2013, 1:58pm)


Loresilme
Valinor


Apr 3 2013, 2:19pm

Post #18 of 34 (345 views)
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Bilbo's three key moments (*spoilers*) [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book I can think of three key moments that are completely Bilbo's moment, alone. Each event changes the course of the story, and in each event, his actions illustrate how he is changing.

1. Bilbo and Gollum
2. Bilbo and Smaug
3. Bilbo giving the Arkenstone to Thranduil / Bard

1. Bilbo and Gollum. Bilbo finds himself in this predicament entirely involuntarily. He uses his wits (and a little luck from the Ring) to make his way out.

2. Bilbo and Smaug. With some encouragement - or, prodding - from the Dwarves, he faces another test. Again uses his wits (and again with a little luck, finds the Arkenstone) to handle the situation.

3. Bilbo giving the Arkenstone to Thranduil /Bard. By this point, Bilbo works entirely on his own. He voluntarily makes his choice entirely on his own. He has confidence enough now to rely on his own wits and judgment.

Three key scenes - three movies. #1 is in AUJ, #2 will be in DOS, #3 will be in TABA.

So I think Bilbo will be alone with Smaug because it's key to both the story and to his character.

Regarding how it's going to be done so that the dwarves don’t look like cowards for not going with him, if they emphasize the hobbit smell vs dwarf smell properly, then in the film it would not seem cowardly. Because technically that's a really strong reason in itself, it's just that in the book there's all that about the dwarves being cowardly about going in there and no one volunteering to go with him, etc., except Balin for a certain distance. But if they don't present it that way, if they instead present it as they all *want* to go with him, but they can't go because of that reason, it would seem perfectly plausible. And they might have Thorin (instead of Balin) insist on accompanying him partway anyway, but then he stops because of the dwarf scent issue.

I do think there could be other points in the action where Thorin could have a Smaug moment of his own, and I wouldn't mind that. Smaug is such an awesome creature to see and hear on film, it would be a shame to under-utilize him. I want lots and lots of Smaug in "Desolation of Smaug" :-).


Marionette
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 2:51pm

Post #19 of 34 (299 views)
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I hope so! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think there are chances for the dwarves and Thorin to face Smaug after Bilbo, even though the book donīt detail that, hopefully the movie will show it.

But Bilbo must enter the cave alone, as people already said.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 2:57pm

Post #20 of 34 (296 views)
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Maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin will face Zombie Smaug at the BO5A after the necromancer shows up and reanimates Smaugs corpse thereAngelic... OH god I hope notWink


LordotRings93
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 4:42pm

Post #21 of 34 (272 views)
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Definitely not [In reply to] Can't Post

In the behind the scenes of DoS, you only see Bilbo sneaking through Smaug's hoard, with no one else in sight. What would be the point of Bilbo sneaking in there if Thorin were to follow him? It would give him away, and the point of Bilbo coming on the journey is to throw off the scent of Smaug. I don't think Thorin would go in there just because of dwarvish pride. He know Smaug will kill him, so why risk dying when you're so close to reclaiming your gold?

I think people are taking this interview with RA about Smaug in the wrong way. RA probably meant he wanted to meet Ben on set while they were filming, not distinctively his character he's playing.

Lover of Medieval Fantasy
"I know what I must do. It's just... I'm afraid to do it."


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 4:45pm

Post #22 of 34 (276 views)
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If Sauron didn't appear to face Aragorn at the Black Gate... [In reply to] Can't Post

then it follows Thorin and Smaug could never come face to face despite his being the Dwarf King's arch nemesis (plus they're already given him an antagonist to confront in a more immediate way in Azog - and possibly Bolg).

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Clifton8
The Shire

Apr 3 2013, 5:26pm

Post #23 of 34 (262 views)
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Balin [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book, Balin offers to go part way down the passage with Bilbo to relay message if Bilbo encounters any trouble.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 5:43pm

Post #24 of 34 (251 views)
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Hopefully the do leave that in. [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin goes like halfway down, that would show some development between the two since they supposedly remain friends after the quest is over. Who knows Peter Jackson will probably have Balin heading straight for Moria once they retake Erobor. Angelic


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Apr 3 2013, 5:43pm)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 5:44pm

Post #25 of 34 (247 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

"My cousin Balin would give us a ROYAL welcome!"

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