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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What did they get right?
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Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 8:56pm

Post #1 of 111 (1418 views)
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What did they get right? Can't Post

There has been some past threads about what small moments were your favorites, and there's also been plenty of talk about what the movie got wrong from the books, so I thought it would be fun to hear what people think AUJ got spot on. And especially those small moments that to you felt like they were lifted right from the page.

Couple of little moments that come to mind for me are (perhapse obious ones), like the "good morning" scene between Gandalf and Bilbo, and Bilbo feeling pity for Gollum.

But one small moment, where they absolutely nailed the feel of the book for me was when we see the troll walk amongst the trees, and past the bushes behind which Bilbo is hiding, carrying the ponies. For some reason that small moment had the exact quality I feel the whole story in the book has, a sort of Grimm's fairytale vibe, only set in a more rich and nuanced world.


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 2 2013, 8:58pm)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 2 2013, 9:02pm

Post #2 of 111 (678 views)
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Well i loved every bit of the movie [In reply to] Can't Post

But to add to your post, they had the elves playing the music during their feast which is a small detail but so awesome they didn't leave it out! Also, definitely the pity of Bilbo for Gollum, that scene makes me tear up every time. The stone giants, some of the lines directly from the book...riddles in the dark was spot on as well. I just loved the whole dang thing! Smile


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 9:09pm

Post #3 of 111 (668 views)
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Yes, the elves playing the music is a good one! [In reply to] Can't Post

Another small moment that felt just right. I loved most of the movie, and hated not a single second of it, but it is tiny little things like the troll carrying the ponies, and the elves playing, that I just suddenly felt like it's precisely the feeling I had when I first read the story.


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 2 2013, 9:13pm)


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 9:12pm

Post #4 of 111 (655 views)
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And with the troll... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it's not so much that they nailed that particular moment (I actually can't even remember right now if there even was a troll carrying ponies in the book), but in that moment they captured the feeling of the entire story perfectly, for me at least.


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 2 2013, 9:19pm

Post #5 of 111 (653 views)
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Another troll observation [In reply to] Can't Post

is they didn't forget that the trolls had to be stoned into the same position as they were in FOTR Smile

I'm actually glad that the eagles didn't talk, I know for some it would be bothersome and a small moment they would like, but I just think they are way more BA without talking Cool


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 9:30pm

Post #6 of 111 (617 views)
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Yes, that's a good little detail [In reply to] Can't Post

especially for the movie fans.

BTW, were the stone trolls stoned because they got stoned?Tongue (sorry, I couldn't resist, that just made me giggle a little they way I read it from your post)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 2 2013, 9:39pm

Post #7 of 111 (576 views)
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LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

It was the first word I could think of and even I thought it sounded odd. But them being "half-wits", who knows what they are getting themselves into Tongue


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 9:47pm

Post #8 of 111 (566 views)
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Haha! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, maybe they are using a bit of Old Toby as seasoning for their pony stew .Smile


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 2 2013, 9:49pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:08pm

Post #9 of 111 (604 views)
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The next morning [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo and his Tookishness adrenaline sprint!

Dwalin, the brute and barbarian bursting into this comfy hobbits hole and stealing his dinner, GNHAM! Laugh

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 10:14pm

Post #10 of 111 (614 views)
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The Tookish sprint [In reply to] Can't Post

was also one of the moments where they captured the innocent and exciting adventurous feel of the story, definitely.

And yes, Dwalin eating poor Bilbo's dinner was another one. In fact, pretty much all of bag end felt spot on to me.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:19pm

Post #11 of 111 (556 views)
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Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

by far the bets part of the film, imo. Very hobbit like and Tolkien like. If only it had remained like that for the whole film.


Another that comes to mind is the fall of erebor. Though it is not in the book, it feels very fantastical, fairytalish, imbued with a sense of magical wonder, yet familiarly historical.

Just remembered one of my favourite shots from the first trailer is not in the final cut Shocked That shot after the smahs the bottles song, when Bilbo is standing next to the pile of plates and fiddles with his suspenders, while smiling at something...He looks very bagginsish in that moment. Pity it didnt make it.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Apr 2 2013, 10:20pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:24pm

Post #12 of 111 (580 views)
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IMO what they got right [In reply to] Can't Post

was from the "good morning" sequence right thru Thorin and Balin talking about losing their burgler. That whole section, even the bits they changed, felt like the book to me. I Loved the songs, liked the change of Thorin arriving late on his own, all that part of the film was spot on. The trolls was so so. I liked the look of the trolls but thought they should have kept the scenario from the book. It seemed odd to me that nobody heard this huge troll uprooting and breaking off trees while grabbing up ponies. And all the while Kili and Fili were supposed to be on watch, the two youngest dwarfs with the best eyes. The stone giants sequence was pretty good before the dwarfs started riding on them and they were all in your face, I thought they looked cool but once they became a Six Flags amusement park ride it was just too much and OTT for me. The parts of Goblin town that didn't use all the swooping camera angles, and just focused on telling the story instead of showing off the effects or 3D was pretty good. (other than the Goblin Kings last one liner which I hated) The constant falling and swooping camera shots and super busy roller coaster stuff I could have done with out. Riddles in the dark for the most part was good but I'm not a fan of the schizophrenic, multiple personality Gollum since I never got that impression all the years I have read the book. I think they should have just stuck with creepy Gollum and kept the scene very tense with mild spots of humor, instead of the having the whole audience cracking up at Gollum several times. Other than that I would have liked them to keep the finding of the ring like it was in FOTR, and have Gollum refer to it as his "birthday present" and having him go back to his island looking for it, then have the Bilbo chase scene ensue. But overall it was acceptable. For the most part I liked the eagles but wish they had omitted the moth since I found it just a cheap tie in to the LOTR trilogy and completely unnecessary. I would have preferred a scene with the lord of the eagles and Gandalf talking about them seeing the fires.

Those were the scenes I thought they got right, or mostly right. Everything else to me was not so good and IMO could have been much better while staying closer to the source material. Or in the case of the White Council and Radagast much better written.Wink


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:30pm

Post #13 of 111 (562 views)
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I prefer the other way... [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought they should have had Bilbo relaxing thinking its all over and up shows Gandalf, rushing him out the door no pack, no pocket handkerchiefs, no walking stick, scrambling to catch up to the dwarfs. Which by the way took the contract with them because according to Balin to Thorin they had "lost their burgler". Then we could have had Bilbo catching up, signing the contract on the spot, dwarfs grumbling because they lost the bet and picking up with the betting scene we got in the film which I didn't mind by the way.Wink

I just thought Bilbo never told anyone he was going on an adventure but in Jackson's version he is running thru Hobbiton yelling he's going on an adventure waving some quarter mile long contract behind him. Just a bit much for me. Unsure


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 10:41pm

Post #14 of 111 (518 views)
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Oh, yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

the fiddling with the suspenders, I had forgotten about that. You are right, it had a very charming Bagginshis feel.

I'm not sure it's possible for the movie to be from start to finish exactly the way one pictures when reading the book (though I'm pretty sure it's pretty darn close the way Peter Jackson pictures itSmile), but I do agree that it differs more from the book in the latter parts than it does in the bag end stuff. But I also think that there is more The Hobbit throughout the whole film than there isn't, a lot more. Sometimes even when they deviate from the book. For instance when the stone giants arise and one of the dwarves (I forgot who) yells "the legends are true!", it was another moment where I felt the same kind of wonder that I felt when I first read the book, even though the stone giants and the whole sequence were nothing like I pictured, or really what was written by Tolkien.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:44pm

Post #15 of 111 (519 views)
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I would prefer that as well [In reply to] Can't Post

but this version infuses the tokishness of bilbo with a wonderfull consequence : he realized how empty his life would be without the dwarves, the gold, the mountains, the adventure etc...I love that moment, despite the fact that it is a change.


Making him not quite so grumpy and having him decide by himself that he should go on this adventure, centers his motivations and adventurer impulse right on Bilbo. I like that.


And then he goes and complains about the handkierchief, just like in the book. Sly Love that moment.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:48pm

Post #16 of 111 (519 views)
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Oh yeah I forgot [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwalin (I think) giving Bilbo his spare hood and cloak for the journey. seeing Bilbo in a hood and cloak too big for him would have been priceless.Wink


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 10:53pm

Post #17 of 111 (597 views)
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I can understand where you're coming from [In reply to] Can't Post

and I actually even agree, for the most part. But, like I said to Lusitano, I'm not sure it's possible for the movie to feel completely from start to finish like it felt when I read the book. And for the most part it did feel right. Some parts didn't feel right, yes, mostly the so called roller coaster ride parts, but even those I thought were at least entertaining, so I can forgive. And there were a lot more moments throughout that I thought felt presicely right, even if they were different, than there were things that felt wrong.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 2 2013, 10:57pm

Post #18 of 111 (499 views)
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I think for me anyways [In reply to] Can't Post

its the fact the chose to deliberately change things instead of even just trying to keep them remotely like they were in the book. At least they could have tried them like that if they didn't work, no biggie, go with plan B. They were constantly changing things anyways why not try what worked best for them. Sticking to Tolkien IMO.


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 11:14pm

Post #19 of 111 (474 views)
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Yes, I agree with that also [In reply to] Can't Post

but I can't really say how the long script writing process went (I'd guess they would have at least started the writing with the intention of sticking as close to the book as possible). And I think I went into the movie already with the mindset that it wasn't goin to be the book, that at the closest it was goin to be the book plus something more (and for the most part I think that's what I got)

I also don't think I would have really liked to have had the book exactly the way it is. I feel adaptations in any form of art need to be different from the piece of art they are based on, otherwise it feels a bit pointless and would be slightly boring. What I mean is that there are, for example, numerous paintings by different painters on the same subject matter from legends and myths (even examples of painters painting what could in modern times be called remakes of older paintings) and if they would have just stick to what had already been done it wouldn't be interesting. We already have the original.
EDIT: and with every artist making their own vision is how we eventually get the vast richness of points of views in art history.

But, like I said. I agree with your points for the most part. I guess it's just we have slightly different ways of approaching them.

And at least you did find quite a few things that you felt they got right, even if it was all downhill from there.Smile


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 2 2013, 11:23pm)


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 2 2013, 11:34pm

Post #20 of 111 (471 views)
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Oh, yes the handkierchief moment... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you just made it even better for me than it already was. I hadn't really thought about it like that, juxtaposing it with Bilbo's adventurous spirit when he runs out the door to explore the wide wild world. I love how you see and describe the whole thing. So, thanks!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Apr 2 2013, 11:50pm

Post #21 of 111 (486 views)
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Erebor (excellent, even with the changes), The first Goodmorning right on [In reply to] Can't Post

until Balin begins his fireside story.

A caveat here: I HATED some of the more eggregious changes to the history given in that fireside accounting, but I thought the acting, the battle sans the misinformation, and the overall tone and feel were excellent.

Back in love in the trot through the rain, and stayed that way right up until the second before the warg/orc chase began, with the exception of Radagast's eye rolling, and stick insect suckling. Otherwise I really enjoyed Radagast as well (minus the bird poop), I just wish he hadn't been quite so addled. Take out the eye roll during his spell, and get rid of that 10 second segment of him being flustered that served no purpose save the introduction of the bug, and his scenes actually worked rather well for me. . . well, minus the inaccuracy about Dol Guldur.

Rivendell. . . there were things I loved and things I didn't. Lindir but no Glorfindel was an expected offense. The dwarves burning furniture was a bit much, though other parts of the scene were funny. I cannot see dwarves being so ungracious as to ruin a thing beyond their ability to repair. Hard to repair torched wood. I very much liked Elrond's graceful return of Orcrist to Thorin with his blessing. I think, much as a Wizard intended, Thorin "looked into the face of an enemy and found a friend," in that moment, and Elrond's behaviour here will contrast pertinently with Thranduil's later ( we know that Thranduil will not be so gracious and will take this blade to which he has far less claim than Elrond would).

I WOULD have loved the White Council scene, if A) The filmakers had not made Gandalf seem rather like some inferior field officer of Galadriel, and B) if there had not been so many inaccuracies in what was said. I really liked the feel and look of the scene otherwise.

Loved Bilbo's scene with Bofur.

Greatly enjoyed Dame Ednas re-enactment of The Goblin King, I thought it was inspired.

LOVED Gandalf's entrance into Goblintown . .. not quite as awesome as in the book, but FAR better than the robbery I thought Peter might pull on the old Wizard. It was a truly epic moment, and a truly impressive display.

Enjoyed the Riddles scene, though it is not my favourite part of my movie, and really was never going to be.

I like that the pinecones were included, though I thought the presentation was underwhelming.

The flight of the Eagles paired with the music was very lovely. Smaug's moment was also great.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jun 7 2013, 4:05am)


tarasaurus
Rohan


Apr 3 2013, 12:02am

Post #22 of 111 (440 views)
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Radagast [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah I really enjoyed Radagast although some of the scenes (i.e, stick insect) could have went better without...I do love his quirkyness/oddness and Sylvester McCoy seems to be a lot like his character in a way.


Kullervo
Rivendell


Apr 3 2013, 12:06am

Post #23 of 111 (440 views)
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That's quite a lot of "right" [In reply to] Can't Post

even if it is peppered with quite a bit "not right".

I very much appreciated the pinecones as well. That's one of those things that I could have easily seen them loosing as they might feel it isn't "cool" enough for the modern audience and especially to the audience who comes to this story expecting it to feel exactly like LoTR. But it's small things like that, a great wizard fighting with burning pinecones instead of Harry Potteresque exploding laser beams that give the Hobbit it's whimsy and charm.


(This post was edited by Kullervo on Apr 3 2013, 12:07am)


Brethil
Half-elven


Apr 3 2013, 12:09am

Post #24 of 111 (435 views)
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I had a similar "fairytale" type moment Kullervo [In reply to] Can't Post

At the end of Blunt the Knives, with the Dwarves all laughing at Bilbo. It just felt to lifted from text, so magical, so right. Oddly enough the moment (when I finally took off my coat in first FOTR viewing, being very ready to bolt at any second) was also in the Bag End kitchen, where Bilbo speaks of being "butter, scraped over too much bread."

I love Erebor - like Moria, such a thrill to see it. The Dwarves trying to hold the gate.

Thorin and Balin in Bag End.

Gandalf looking exasperated in Bag End!

"Good Morning" is utterly perfect. And as I have said so many times I feel blessed in our Mithrandir.

I love Riddles - only thing I miss is that my favorite isn't used - the Fish riddle.

I enjoy the Rivendell dinner scene, if nothing else for seeing more of Gandalf out and about, being Gandalf.

The Blue Blast in Goblintown, and Gandalf appearing from the silence.

Bilbo and Bofur. A beautiful addition to the characters of both.

"Why did you come back?"

The pity of Bilbo. another flawless piece.

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Apr 3 2013, 12:14am

Post #25 of 111 (431 views)
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the pity of Bilbo.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel wasn't so much the pity of Bilbo in the film but the wisdom of Gandalf. I think they could have done without the Gandalf scene telling Bilbo its also about when not to take a life because I felt it just took away from Bilbo's pity. When it happened all I could here was Gandalf telling Bilbo that info all over again. Maybe it was just me thoughCrazy

Have to admit I loved the lines of Gandalf and Thorin about where Gandalf went and what brought him back and the Blunt the knives song was so much fun I loved it.Wink


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Apr 3 2013, 12:16am)

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