Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Spoilers ahead.RA's climactic scene.
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

ShireHorse
Rohan

Mar 30 2013, 8:46pm

Post #26 of 85 (490 views)
Shortcut
I had to read this twice before I understood: [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
watch out richard..think you might need some sort of court order for this one :P


In spite of the "wry smile" accompanying the remark, I still find it below the belt and uncalled for, jimmy fenn. Over the years, I've seen quite a few of the cast members of The Hobbit in quite a few of their shows. So, what are you going to read into that? And please don't tell me that I haven't a sense of humour because I've just missed the new Dr Who and am feeling very grumpy tonight.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Mar 30 2013, 8:46pm

Post #27 of 85 (464 views)
Shortcut
Strike Back (the UK first season) [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved his performance in this. After the UK first season, the series was Americanised and he only appeared at the very beginning of the second series (first US series). The US Strike Back is nowhere near as good as the UK one – and that is largely down to RA's great performance in the UK season.


In Reply To
And in Strike Back, he was asked to play the strong but vulnerable soldier: and he played him.

I expect to be very moved by Thorin's last scene..



(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Mar 30 2013, 8:47pm)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Mar 30 2013, 8:51pm

Post #28 of 85 (462 views)
Shortcut
oh [In reply to] Can't Post

obsessive and quick to anger.... thats a stalker right there!

oh chillax were all friends, it was a joke, and there is a thing called iplayer.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 30 2013, 9:29pm

Post #29 of 85 (456 views)
Shortcut
Tissues Please [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Regardless, RA and MF are going to ensure massive profits for the tissue industry. It will be epic.


i'm buying stock in the Kleenex corporation then I'm going to go to every theatre in the state and ask if I can set up a concession stand selling them. I'm sure I'll be a millionaire.

Oh. and I wish WB had the foresight (but I know they probably don't) to have Hobbit Handkerchiefs to give away to the midnight showing of the opening of TABA sort of like New Line did the Film Frame Collectible for Trilogy Tuesday. That would be awesome.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Mar 30 2013, 10:00pm

Post #30 of 85 (485 views)
Shortcut
RA will be just as good as Sean Bean [In reply to] Can't Post

whose death scene, although good, was not among the most convincing I've ever seen.

"True courage is about knowing not when to take a life, but when to spare one."


marillaraina
Rohan


Mar 31 2013, 2:11am

Post #31 of 85 (375 views)
Shortcut
Agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
.

I couldn't judge myself. For starters, the sound and lip movements are slightly out of sync in that clip, which makes it distracting, and as I didn't watch Robin Hood and have no idea how the characters and story had been written I find it impossible to judge that scene in isolation. Any death scene surely takes its power from what comes before. If you don't already know the character, if you haven't built up a response to him through the film or series then you're not going to feel anything much when he dies. You have to be involved already for it to touch you.
.


Darn, wish I still had it. Back then I actually made a little edit of JUST Guy's death scene in Robin Hood, to show someone. I didn't do anything to it, it was just the straight death scene and everything was in sync. I could have posted it for those who want to see it when everything is "in order".

That said you are right. It's nearly impossible to really judge a death scene out of context when you aren't really "involved" with the story or the characters. It's really a lovely. moving scene, imo, especially within the context of THAT show which let's face it was made as a kid's show to be shown in the very early evening hours on Saturday(I'm not in the UK but I seem to remember it used to show pretty early, like at 6PM or something).

Also I noticed someone mentioning his voice, the reason it's so quiet is because he's been run through the lung with a sword and stabbed with a poison dagger(the sheriff and his sister, who are now in cahoots, manage to get him from back and front when he pushes I think it was his half brother out of the way while he himself had no weapon) as shown.

So again, I think within the context of the scene, his voice was used well, in those circumstances it might be expected that a person wouldn't have much strength left to talk with.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Mar 31 2013, 2:20am)


Kimtc
Rohan


Mar 31 2013, 3:43am

Post #32 of 85 (395 views)
Shortcut
This line really stuck with me. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
For instance, in TH map reading scene, when he says to Elrond "Can you read them?" he says it with an undercurrent of breathlessness, hope against hope, fighting to stay calm - all in just four simple words.


When I heard it, I kept getting this feeling of déjà vu. I had heard something like it before, but couldn't put my finger on it. Then I saw "Master and Commander" (the movie that should have won the Oscar for best picture if ROTK hadn't been in the mix). The scene where Lord Blakeney is trying to sew up his friend's funeral shroud, and says "Can you help me?" It is almost the same inflection, although one comes from hope and one from sorrow. Kind of eerie.

Two types of scenes are hard to pull off: calls to battle (they are almost never stirring) and death scenes. I think Debra Winger in Terms of Endearment pulled it off.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Mar 31 2013, 3:48am

Post #33 of 85 (387 views)
Shortcut
guy of gisborne, thorin, armitage -- non-issue [In reply to] Can't Post

 
just saw the final episode of robin hood this morning.

because i'd not seen any of armitage's work before the hobbit, i have been watching robin hood -- just to view armitage's work.

i watched the first episode and i thought the show was so awful (so awful) that i didn't return for some time. but it wasn't because of armitage's acting. i found the show cheesy, silly, and the writing and directing poor. i also thought they made the robin hood character +way+ too smarmy (first episode impression). and i just didn't believe that this robin hood, physically or emotionally, was a hardened knight who fought in the holy land.

i returned to watch (again, because of armitage), and i'm so glad i did.

the show itself is +so+ uneven. i really want to be respectful of the creative work of others, but the entire cast (which was of extremely varied experience and skill and age) was drastically under-served by the writing and the directing.

armitage, throughout the series, was clearly working hard to build his character over the long term, and he really elevated the material in many scenes. often when i was watching him, it seemed like he was in a different production than the writers, producers, and directors envisioned -- a good thing, in my opinion.

the show itself really jumped in quality halfway through the second season. everything got better, though it was still very uneven in quality. there was another jump in quality halfway through the third season, and by the last two or three episodes, it was just not the same show anymore -- another good thing.

armitage also often made the work of his castmates better. he's not an egotistic scene-stealer, and seems generous with his colleagues. i think jonas armstrong in particular benefited from his work throughout the series with their mutual scenes.

armitage's/gisborne's dying scene was... unbelievably moving. an accomplishment, seeing as how i found the show overall rather lightweight.

the show gave armitage a cardboard villain to play, and he tore that up, hauled out his marble, and with every episode chipped and polished and left the series with the most rounded and believable character on the show.

and i really feel compelled to repeat -- the writing on the show was often... without a lot of depth.

i had no doubt -- no doubt -- just watching the hobbit that armitage will deliver, deliver deliver in the 2nd and 3rd films. i'm very happy that i stuck with the robin hood series, because i was rewarded with a cumulative performance and a closing performance that was +incredibly+ moving, and kept with me for long afterwards.

thank you, richard.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel


bborchar
Rohan


Mar 31 2013, 4:19am

Post #34 of 85 (343 views)
Shortcut
MF was outstanding in that episode... [In reply to] Can't Post

(of course, so was Benedict Cumberbatch). So much emotion in that one phone call. I have absolutely no doubt that I will cry my eyes out during the last movie- both Freeman and Armitage are wonderful actors, and they've done a great job so far.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 31 2013, 4:28am

Post #35 of 85 (340 views)
Shortcut
Totally [In reply to] Can't Post

Both of them were perfect during that last 20 minutes. From the whole "This phone call, this is my note" on I was in tears. And MF, how he takes the phone away from his ear briefly to say "Leave a note..when" and "Goodbye John". So awesome. And BC on the verge of tears as he tells John he's a fake. And I won't even go into that whole soliloquy at the graveside by Freeman.

The last hobbit film..yeah. It's gonna be a tear jerker and a half. I might as well do as Bilbo does there at the end, bring a blanket, cover myself and cry till my eyes are red and my throat is hoarse.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Mar 31 2013, 5:01am

Post #36 of 85 (402 views)
Shortcut
idrilofgondor [In reply to] Can't Post

this is interesting question imo. i wonder too. a guess could be that thorin is overwhelmed by goblins and warg hosts
and is struck down. he is stranded, cut off from the floundering armies of dwarves, goblins, ect. the bad monsters are about
to fall upon him once and for all, but like the scene provided in AUJ when the dwarves of the blazing tree rally to the aid of Bilbo
and Thorin, Fili and Kili charge against the host before them and rally before the fallen uncle's standard. Alas, the goblin and warg and bat
are too many and simply overwhelm them and thorin watches as fili and kili fall in battle before his helpless eyes. just as the the goblins and wargs rush to
swallow up and finish the last surviving member of the immediate party, Beorn charges in and scatters the host, just seconds too late to save fili and kili too. He
grabs thorin and off they go, having to abandon the recently fallen fil and kil!
i wonder how sir jackson and witers and company will translate it to the screen if it is included. i think it could be interesting.

but your question of fili and kili deaths and the handling piqued a larger question and theme for me too. that is the deaths in lotr. recently i had perused the scenes of both
boromir and thorin's departures. I was struck at the terse style. It is terse, but incisive. there is just something
about it that is entertaining and fits well with the whole of the story imo. it serves the literary purposes well across the theme of death of all characters in all situations. but how does one translate that into a cinematic version? i think
this is where it gets tricky in sorting out how to present scenes. for instance, i think of when the fellowship stumbles upon moria chamber. balin is dead, and so is ori our dwarf scholar. their ends, from accounts, was
not the most hopeful. ori in his record talks about the goblins shooting balin and then invading the kingdom of moria. they tried to keep them out but they just kept coming. like an old ship with a hole, the water keeps flowing in and while the cappy tries to shut the compartments to contain the flooding, the seepage is inexorable. they tried to shut off parts of the kingdom, but the gobbies took the bridge and then the second hall, and then the chamber! meanwhile couriers were sent back and forth from all corners of the kingdom and they brought back more bad news of how gobbies were coming and the way out was blocked by an octopus. how unfortunate! even as ori is writting his dreary account, a gobby probably shot him with arrows, and could not finish the tome of doom for the fellowship to stumble upon. boooo! this would be interesting to watch on screen i think, but it probably would have a slightly different flavor than the departure of boromir, cinematically speaking. which brings me back to fili and kili. theatrically, is this going to be difficult to translate from the book? because we see fili and kili in AuJ and the dwarves are enthusiastic about their mission and such but to see them dead would be weird. as far as the book, i don't think they survive like thorin to make good-byes and such. the characters which we like to follow on this adventure are just one day dead.... that's it...it works in the book, but i agree with you that this could be challenging to go through all this material for the film version. thoughts?


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 31 2013, 11:21am

Post #37 of 85 (347 views)
Shortcut
I like RA and think he is a good actor [In reply to] Can't Post

but he just does a good job and then goes back to his trailer. Viggo lived the part of Aragorn. I felt it in every pore of his being, and thats the difference, I felt I was looking at Aragorn not some hunky actor in a costume. With RA I feel I am looking at an actor, with unaccountably large feet and not much nuance, he seems to vary 'The Broody', its either minor broody or full on broody, and thats it. He has expressive eyes but I want to see more of Thorins character, but thats the problem, its not Thorin, he is so much changed from the book that they will have to invent most of a new character, and there lies the problem.I havent actually seen any of his inner being or character apart from him being angry at Smaug, Elrond, Azog, Thranduil, erm.. everybody he meets.


dormouse
Half-elven


Mar 31 2013, 11:26am

Post #38 of 85 (348 views)
Shortcut
But that's Thorin, isn't it? [In reply to] Can't Post

He is grumpy in the book. Proud, demanding, expects a lot from his companions. Angry. I don't think you'd pick him out as having a sense of humour.... Seems to me they're created a much deeper, more shaded character for the film by exploring the reasons why he is as he is.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 31 2013, 1:27pm

Post #39 of 85 (311 views)
Shortcut
yes book Thorin was grumpy [In reply to] Can't Post

but he was also a bit of a noodle, he wasnt much of a leader, he relied on others to get things done. First he relied on Gandalf to lead them and when Gandalf left them he was very dismayed. He gradually became dependant on Bilbo to lead them and demanded Bilbo find solutions to their problems. Thorin in the film is firmly in control of every situation, he is their leader and he decides everything, he doesnt need Bilbo a all. Bilbo is just in the way and a nuisance. Thats why they invented the fake rescue when bilbo kills the goblin, to try to introduce and shoehorn some kind of relationship between them that had been removed with the change in Thorins character.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 31 2013, 1:37pm

Post #40 of 85 (347 views)
Shortcut
The events you describe haven't happened yet. [In reply to] Can't Post

We don't know if the Thorin we've seen in the first movie is the Thorin that is in the next two. Thorin has been depending on Gandalf to lead them so far, so he might be dismayed when Gandalf leaves. Thorin might become dependent on Bilbo and demand that Bilbo find solutions to the company's problems.

If anything, the last scene between Bilbo and Thorin could portend the changes in Thorin. I don't think you could expect that a character arc that develops through an entire whole story and expect it to be displayed in the first of three movies.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 31 2013, 1:58pm

Post #41 of 85 (309 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, one of the problems they had with the films [In reply to] Can't Post

is the portrayal of not just Thorin, but all the dwarves, in the book. In LotR, Tolkien portrayed a proud people with a vast and epic history, with many long hurts and hard won victories. But in TH, they were a silly, incompetent bunch with barely any personality beyond broad stereotypes. The dwarves of LotR had strong personalities, sure, but also had subtler shadings. There wasn't much room for subtlety in TH (rightly so, as a fable). And even though i'm not as enamored of R. Armitage's performance as Thorin as some around these parts, i thought he was fine, and i thought that PJ & Co. did a rather brilliant job of bringing Tolkien's sketch of a race as presented in the book to life. They struck the right balance-- a rag-tag bunch of well-meaning but ill-prepared dwarves probably getting in over thier heads but who might just pull it off. And they looked fantastic (apart from Thorin not looking quite old (or bearded) enough, and Kili not being a dwarf at all), with most of the actors doing a wonderful job.


The Grey Elf
Gondor


Mar 31 2013, 2:30pm

Post #42 of 85 (288 views)
Shortcut
Poor RA -- he seems destined to always be a Thorin in somebody's side .... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 31 2013, 2:34pm

Post #43 of 85 (316 views)
Shortcut
!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Good one!

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


tarasaurus
Rohan


Mar 31 2013, 2:49pm

Post #44 of 85 (276 views)
Shortcut
RA and his beard [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And they looked fantastic (apart from Thorin not looking quite old (or bearded) enough


There's a video of RA saying to give him a piece of mind about Thorin not having the long beard (it is longer in the flashbacks), that he suspects Thorin cut it off in respects to all of his kin dying in the orcs vs. dwarves battle. I quite like that idea....a lot. :D


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 31 2013, 3:07pm

Post #45 of 85 (281 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, i saw that. [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked that explanation, and it did help a bit. And i think the character does look cool, i just wish they'd at least given him more beard somehow (maybe braided close to his body, to keep a similar profile), and made him look a bit older. I guess if you look like you're in your (human)50s, you won't be sexy enough ha ha. He's fine as is though, and doesn't really bother me (like Kili does).


tarasaurus
Rohan


Mar 31 2013, 3:09pm

Post #46 of 85 (270 views)
Shortcut
Haha yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not bothered either way cause I think they all look great, I like that they created individual looks and silhouettes for them all, beards or not. But I'm seeing that I disagree with most peoples' opinions on the forum about the movie haha. RA says that when Thorin becomes king, he'd regrow his beard back....but....Frown


Kirly
Lorien


Mar 31 2013, 3:09pm

Post #47 of 85 (275 views)
Shortcut
He does look like he's in his (human) 50s in this role [In reply to] Can't Post

Even late 50s / early 60s

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 31 2013, 3:18pm

Post #48 of 85 (281 views)
Shortcut
No way... [In reply to] Can't Post

mid-forties. And it's a very well-preserved mid-forties at that. That's how old i am, and a lot of my friends, too.


tarasaurus
Rohan


Mar 31 2013, 3:20pm

Post #49 of 85 (240 views)
Shortcut
yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the prosthetics aged him a bit (though I'm sure on purpose) but not in a bad way, he looks more dwarvish definitely.


dormouse
Half-elven


Mar 31 2013, 3:22pm

Post #50 of 85 (254 views)
Shortcut
I don't agree about their reasons for inventing the final scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd say that in the book all the dwarves treat Bilbo as baggage, and pretty useless baggage at that, until he rescues them from the spiders. Then, and only then, do they begin to see that he isn't just a waste of space, and start looking to him for ideas. And as Thorin has already been taken prisoner at that point it isn't until Bilbo finds him in the Elvenking's dungeon that he, Thorin, begins to take notice:
'"Upon my word!" said Thorin, when Bilbo whispered to him to come out and join his friends, "Gandalf spoke true, as usual! A pretty fine burglar you make, it seems, when the time comes. . ."'
That's when they start looking to Bilbo for leadership, and the barrel escape seals it.

In the two-part adaptation, so far as we know, they would have ended film one with the barrel escape, so, the first film would have ended with Bilbo proving himself to Thorin (and the rest of the dwarves) and their relationship with him changing. But when PJ decided on three films he lost that moment. The film would have ended on the Carrock with Bilbo still being the useless piece of luggage the dwarves feel responsible for: '"I can't always be carrying burglars on my back," said Dori, . . . . "He'll be eaten if we don't do something," said Thorin' . Bilbo's story wouldn't have progessed in the first film. So I don't think the Azog scene has as much to do with the development of Thorin's character as it does with Bilbo's. I reckon that, rightly or wrongly, PJ and co. felt they had to do something at the climax of film one to replace the spider rescue as the moment at which the dwarves stop seeing Bilbo as a nuisance and start to see him in a new light, and he starts to understand his own abilities. Bilbo had to do something brave at the end of the first film, wherever it ended.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.