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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
View Of The Lonely Mountain From The Carrock
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Barrow-Wight
Rohan

Mar 24 2013, 3:28pm

Post #1 of 28 (1035 views)
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View Of The Lonely Mountain From The Carrock Can't Post

A lot of people have said that the final scenes with the view of The Lonely Mountain in the distance was a bit unbelievable they say that there's no way you could see it from that distance. they say it was done for "artistic purpose",well I'm not much of an arguer but I'll state my case "it was in the book" a lot of people tend to forget it at least I've never seen anyone else mention it. At the end of the chapter "The Return Journey" Page 248 in my book says:

"At last they came up the long road, and reached the very pass where the goblins had captured them before. But they came to that high point at morning, and looking backward they saw a white sun shining over the outstretched lands. There behind lay Mirkwood, blue in the distance, and darkly green at the nearer edge even in the spring. There far away was the Lonely Mountain on the edge of eyesight. On it's highest peak snow yet unmelted was gleaming pale"

So in Tolkien's Hobbit you can see the Lonely Mountain from the High pass of the Misty mountains (at least on a good day) so why do people refuse to think it's possible? I know Jackson has moved mountains before (literally) he changed the landscape of Mordor so Barad-Dur was the first thing you see when you enter. and you can see Mordor from Helm's Deep, in the book Legolas glimpsed MInas Tirith and Mordor From Edoras albeit he has elf eyes though, but back on topic is it really that unbelievable to see the Lonely Mountain fron the Carrock?


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 24 2013, 3:45pm

Post #2 of 28 (414 views)
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Some of the views... [In reply to] Can't Post

... both in the book and in the movies are not possible if you assume Arda in the Third Age has the same shape as our planet Earth.

Seeing Erebor from Carrock did not bother me at all to be honest.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 24 2013, 3:51pm

Post #3 of 28 (370 views)
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On a clear day, [In reply to] Can't Post

at sea level, you can only see about 20 miles. I've also read that, theoretically, even on Mt. Everest, on the clearest day possible, you can only see just over 200 miles. The Carrock is 200 miles away from the lonely mountain, and it's not nearly as high as Mt. Everest. And at the end of TTT, when Gandalf sees Mordor from Helm's Deep, that's 400 miles away.

But i'm not complaining. I'm glad PJ let the company see the Lonely Mountain when they did-- it was a beautiful shot, and it set up the next movie perfectly. But i still like thinking about the geography of Middle-earth, and compairing PJ's films to Tolien's (and other's) maps.


Hamfast of Gamwich
Rivendell


Mar 24 2013, 3:51pm

Post #4 of 28 (370 views)
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The view from the Carrock [In reply to] Can't Post

"There far away was the Lonely Mountain on the edge of eyesight."

Thats not quite what we get in the film. It's pretty big really. I'd rather it was half the size. But it's not exactly a major issue.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 4:08pm

Post #5 of 28 (351 views)
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Can a thrush really fly that far? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was wondering this when I saw the Lonely Mountain in this scene. That thrush flies nonstop all the way to the mountain. Can a thrush really fly that far without resting? Of course, it is pretty hungry when it gets there and has to eat a snail :)

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Mar 24 2013, 4:15pm

Post #6 of 28 (325 views)
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i thought similarly [In reply to] Can't Post

 
...but let it go, for it's a lovely artistic device.

but i have the same thoughts about gandalf's moths.... they're slower than thrushes. at least in lotr, there's a distinct gap of time. the moth he makes use of in th:auj must have met up with an eagle (or intermediary) very quickly.

my other, persistent thought about gandalf's moths... he's pretty darn lucky that when sends them on this important missions that they're not gobbled up by owls or bats. seriously.


cheers --


.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 24 2013, 4:18pm

Post #7 of 28 (327 views)
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According to the internet [In reply to] Can't Post

(wikipedia, google, yahoo), a bird that size could fly around 200 miles in 10 or so hours. So it could make it from the Carrock to the Lonely Mountain in a day.

I was surprised by this. I had assumed it was impossible, and decided that it was just a different bird knocking on Smaug's door.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Mar 24 2013, 4:20pm)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 4:18pm

Post #8 of 28 (313 views)
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Oh I agree, [In reply to] Can't Post

It is lovely imagery, and the end result of the thrush's appetite is truly awesome.

I had the same thought about the moths, only I imagined them delivering their messages--then getting gobbled up by the Eagles! They are probably much faster than they appear.

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Kimtc
Rohan


Mar 24 2013, 4:23pm

Post #9 of 28 (316 views)
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Well, a swallow can fly south while carrying a coconut...... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I was wondering this when I saw the Lonely Mountain in this scene. That thrush flies nonstop all the way to the mountain. Can a thrush really fly that far without resting? Of course, it is pretty hungry when it gets there and has to eat a snail :)



Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 4:25pm

Post #10 of 28 (313 views)
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Wait a minute! [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought coconuts were migratory? So do they really need swallows? Wink

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 24 2013, 4:25pm

Post #11 of 28 (312 views)
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What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen thrush? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know, but it sets up some great Monty Python jokes! Cool



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Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 4:28pm

Post #12 of 28 (288 views)
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Sigh...too late :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 24 2013, 4:28pm

Post #13 of 28 (292 views)
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GMTA! And also, I type too slowly! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 24 2013, 4:31pm

Post #14 of 28 (291 views)
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That's what I get for trying to be funny from a smartphone! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



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Kirly
Lorien


Mar 24 2013, 4:31pm

Post #15 of 28 (331 views)
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Do you mean [In reply to] Can't Post

that they are so far away that they are below the horizon as a result of the curvature of the Earth?

My avatar photo is Lake Tekapo in New Zealand's South Island. Taken by me in 2004 on a Red Carpet Tours LOTR Movie Location Tour. 'Twas the Vacation of a Lifetime!

pictures taken while on the tour are here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/Kirly7/LOTRNewZealandTour#


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 24 2013, 4:32pm

Post #16 of 28 (305 views)
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African or European? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 4:34pm

Post #17 of 28 (286 views)
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Oh I sympathise! [In reply to] Can't Post

Usually it takes me a good half-hour to type one sentence. Occasionally I get fits of brilliance (at least that's what I call it). I can't imagine trying to use a cell phone, as I'm too cheap to get a Smartphone, so I'm stuck with my Stupidphone. Smile

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Kimtc
Rohan


Mar 24 2013, 4:38pm

Post #18 of 28 (296 views)
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Perhaps the Gondorian swallow.... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Mar 24 2013, 4:55pm

Post #19 of 28 (265 views)
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"stupidphone" *lol* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Mar 24 2013, 5:02pm

Post #20 of 28 (274 views)
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Good catch! [In reply to] Can't Post

I had forgotten that, too, though, living in Colorado, I know you can see a lo-o-o-o-ong way if you're standing in the right place so I was never in the disbeliever camp. Wink Of course, it doesn't mean that Tolkien was exaggerating a tadge, but it was his landscape and he had the right to do so. The important thing is not whether it's possible for us to see that far in the real world, the important thing, as you pointed out, is that it was obviously possible in Middle-earth.

Thanks!


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





QuackingTroll
Valinor


Mar 24 2013, 5:22pm

Post #21 of 28 (263 views)
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Awesome stuff!! [In reply to] Can't Post

This bothered me a little, not whether it was possible or not but just because if it was visible it would have been mentioned in the book. So this is great to know Smile


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 24 2013, 5:34pm

Post #22 of 28 (264 views)
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You might enjoy this previous discussion on it: [In reply to] Can't Post

Link

Smile


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Mar 24 2013, 5:46pm

Post #23 of 28 (242 views)
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Mirkwood Thrushes [In reply to] Can't Post

If they're anything like Rhosgobel Rabbits, they'd get to the Mountain at warp speed.

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 24 2013, 5:55pm

Post #24 of 28 (223 views)
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I forgot about that one... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Mar 25 2013, 2:29am

Post #25 of 28 (130 views)
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Yes, but [In reply to] Can't Post

In the movie we only see the outline. IN the book Bilbo can make out that is is still snow-capped!

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