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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Hobbit discussion
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RangerLady23
Lorien

Mar 21 2013, 8:20pm

Post #1 of 47 (1284 views)
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Hobbit discussion Can't Post

Okay, so I realize that I may be a little behind here, but I only got to see the Hobbit in theaters once and now having bought it and seen it a few times, I'd like to mention a few things...
1. I think that the song the Dwarves sing in Bag End is totally awesome and it really matches Tolkien's description of the Dwarven voices. I think it is a haunting song and it gives me goosebumps every time.
2.Maybe I am old fashioned, but I think that they went a little overboard on the digital and motion capture stuff. All the goblins, the Wargs, even the Elven horses on the plains outside of Rivendell are CGI. I realize that they have to do it with the dangerous stuff but the trilogy had real horses and the lead Orcs were actually on set and in makeup and i think I like it much better that way.
3. I think the scene where Bilbo is contemplating killing Gollum is played to perfection and I really did feel extreme pity for Gollum in that moment. The look on Martin Freeman's face and in his eyes as he realizes that he cannot kill this creature before him is spectacular.
Bravo Martin and well done!
4. I noticed some time ago when looking at a Noble Collection catalog that Sting is different. The etching down the blade is more of a simple leaf design instead of being a Elvish-like script like Frodo's version. Explain how a sword magically changed over a 60 year period? Very mysterious...
Like I said, I may be behind on these subjects and they may have already been talked about but I wanted to add my two cents after knowing what I was talking about. I felt wrong joining a conversation back in December when I wasn't really educated on it. (Except for a few dozen readings of the book.)


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 21 2013, 8:34pm

Post #2 of 47 (715 views)
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I believe the change in Sting was deliberate [In reply to] Can't Post

Frodo's version has etching naming the sword as Sting along the blade. Since the sword isn't named Sting until Mirkwood, the filmmakers had to remove the inscription for The Hobbit.



My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Ardamr
Valinor


Mar 21 2013, 8:37pm

Post #3 of 47 (661 views)
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Always good to discuss again! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've actually only seen the movie once, and that was in theaters on opening day. But today I actually was able to watch the first 10 minutes again. It was a free preview on DirecTV cinema. So I watched it.

And I totally agree about the CG. I had thought maybe my theater was just old and made the movie look bad, but I'm convinced now that it's just the film that looks atrocious. It is far too digital, too crisp, and too fake-looking. Even the landscape shots in the Shire looked horrible, and I know that they are real! I'm assuming it's a problem of the 5K resolution.

Another thing I noticed was that when the camera would pan (especially during landscape shots) the image seemed to stutter. I've noticed this every single time I've watched the pan around Dale. I'm beginning to wonder if the HFR is responsible for this. I've never noticed stutter before, but I saw it at least three times in the 10 minute preview alone.

Then of course, I saw Frodo. I thought seeing the film a second time would make me more forgiving, but I think it's actually just making me more aware of the flaws and the things I don't like.

"Now this babe was of greatest beauty; his skin of a shining white and his eyes of a blue surpassing that of the sky in southern lands - bluer than the sapphires of the raiment of Manw; and the envy of Meglin was deep at his birth, but the joy of Turgon and all the people very great indeed." -The Fall of Gondolin


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Mar 21 2013, 8:45pm

Post #4 of 47 (680 views)
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True, and it's good they did (SPOILER) [In reply to] Can't Post

could you imagine the outcry if Sting came pre-named and pre-etched? I'm betting the etching will be done at the First Homely House on the way back.


DanielLB
Immortal


Mar 21 2013, 9:09pm

Post #5 of 47 (616 views)
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Not all the Goblins were CGI [In reply to] Can't Post

The ones climbing the walls, or swinging on ropes were CGI. But the majority of the Goblins they interact with were real (excluding the faces).

I hadn't realised the horses were CGI. How do you know that?

Smile


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 21 2013, 9:30pm

Post #6 of 47 (617 views)
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You know.... [In reply to] Can't Post

"And I totally agree about the CG. I had thought maybe my theater was just old and made the movie look bad, but I'm convinced now that it's just the film that looks atrocious. It is far too digital, too crisp, and too fake-looking. Even the landscape shots in the Shire looked horrible, and I know that they are real! I'm assuming it's a problem of the 5K resolution.

Another thing I noticed was that when the camera would pan (especially during landscape shots) the image seemed to stutter. I've noticed this every single time I've watched the pan around Dale. I'm beginning to wonder if the HFR is responsible for this. I've never noticed stutter before, but I saw it at least three times in the 10 minute preview alone."


The last shot of gandalfs beautifull speech " Home is now behindyou" is a zoom out on a green hill filled with some trees and rocks and a stream...it is AMAZING, how bad, how fake, the landscape looks. The foilage of the trees, the hills, are imbued with a feel of fakeness and unnaturalness and on overly saturated colour pallette. The landscape looks like a real estate maquette with little houses and trees and fake grass...

- 43 minutes and 37 seconds.

Just grab some HD screencaps from lotr and compare the shire shots...its amazing, how different it looks. The lotr's shire looks natural, beautifull, green, with a real feel that it is a real landscape...TH's shire looks as if its been sanitized, digitalized and stretched.

Theres another shot, when the company stops due to Bilbos complaints about his handkierchief, you can see how ridiculouusly saturated the ground especially the trees are.

Comparing these two sources of footage is like comparing a Ferrari and and Opel Corsa.


And then there are other shots, that suffer from 3D cardboard symptom, such as the first aerial pan of the warg chase in the rocky landscape, in which we can see the rock formations take an almost cardboardish quality, rather than being part of a composed photograph.

But thatts the result of 3D.

1 hour, 17 minutes and 29 secs

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Mar 21 2013, 9:32pm)


bborchar
Rohan


Mar 21 2013, 9:49pm

Post #7 of 47 (587 views)
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Easy way to fix this... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is to watch the dvd version instead of the blu-ray if it bothers you. The dvd version has much less saturation and much more "flatness" to it. Great thing about having more than one version is that it gives people choices. Just choose what works for you.


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Mar 21 2013, 9:58pm

Post #8 of 47 (564 views)
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It's A Matter of Taste [In reply to] Can't Post

or something. I can't watch 3D so I've seen AUJ only in 2D every time I've seen it. The landscape is beautiful and doesn't look in the least fake. Saw AUJ in Blu-Ray yesterday and on my TV and with the SONY player I have it was gorgeous. And there were many CGI horses in LOTR. You can tell which they are in the Ride of the Rohirrim without too much trouble, but that doesn't ruin the majesty of that part of ROTK. The horses in Rivendell don't look CGI to me.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 21 2013, 10:05pm

Post #9 of 47 (535 views)
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That's my view as well [In reply to] Can't Post

I just enjoy it. I think it's magical and I love it. I don't get too caught up in the details. But I totally get it if it's not someone's taste and there are those for whom it bothers them very much, and I respect that. Actually I thought the movie did very well on home video. I really enjoyed the Blu Ray disc and have now watched it 3 times.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 21 2013, 10:15pm

Post #10 of 47 (528 views)
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You know, i thought the same thing about that shot, [In reply to] Can't Post

the one at 43:37. Even when it was in one of the trailers, there was something unusual about that shot. So just now i put in the blu-ray to check it out, and then remembered seeing it in one of the documentaries. And sure enough, at the end of New Zealand: Home of Middle-earth, there's a series of shots right at the end showing actual locations, some with a before-and-after visual effects and color grading, and there's THAT shot, minus the effects (the company and color grading as far as i can tell), and that is a real place. I find that amazing, because that shot looks too good to be true, but it's not.

That doc is pretty good, especially that last sequence, because some of those shots look like they'd have to be cg enhanced, but they're pretty much as is, with just the characters placed in the shot. New Zealand is very, very impressive. I really must go there some day...


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Mar 21 2013, 10:18pm)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 21 2013, 10:38pm

Post #11 of 47 (520 views)
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Not really [In reply to] Can't Post

since i saw this at the theatre as well. Actually i had noticed it way back in a tv spot but i really noticed it at the cinema.

Its not a matter of the bluray vs dvd. Its the movie that looks like that. Also i only have the dvd, so far.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Mar 21 2013, 10:44pm

Post #12 of 47 (488 views)
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I saw it [In reply to] Can't Post

and thought some of those landscape shots were actually more impressive than those in the movie.

Must watch it again to make sure.

Take a look at the 1hour and 43 minutes shot. That shot was used in the trailers and we had seen part of it in one vblog because it is a combination of two different shots. The place where the dwarves are walking is different than the green planes and mountains. Thats why it looks so bad. Thats the landscape shot i most dislike.

We can see the origonal in that NZ Home video.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


bborchar
Rohan


Mar 21 2013, 11:00pm

Post #13 of 47 (486 views)
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I've seen both versions... [In reply to] Can't Post

And in every format but IMAX. There's a HUGE difference between the HD and DVD version...mainly in the color saturation and 3Dness. If you watch the HD then go down to the DVD, you lose the bright colors and everything feels flat (nothing stands out against its background). You lose a lot of detail, but some people find it easier to watch that way. If someone watching the bluesy doesn't like the color saturation or image crispness, watching the DVD will alleviate that.


imin
Valinor


Mar 22 2013, 12:15am

Post #14 of 47 (458 views)
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There is such a big difference [In reply to] Can't Post

Very over saturated in blu-ray - gives a sugary fake feeling. The dvd appears to have colours which occur in real life, lol.

Things like the beards - especially balin's to me look better in dvd than HD as it is harder to see the make up/prosthetics.

I am watching both of these on my GF laptop so it could just be her laptop's display configuration i dunno - i prefer the crisp image overall though in the Blu-ray especially for wide landscape shots, looks magnificent for those.


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 22 2013, 12:24am

Post #15 of 47 (444 views)
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I sort of adjusted for mid-settings [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Very over saturated in blu-ray - gives a sugary fake feeling. The dvd appears to have colours which occur in real life, lol.

Things like the beards - especially balin's to me look better in dvd than HD as it is harder to see the make up/prosthetics.

I am watching both of these on my GF laptop so it could just be her laptop's display configuration i dunno - i prefer the crisp image overall though in the Blu-ray especially for wide landscape shots, looks magnificent for those.


Got some hints to improve my viewing via the player (Smile) and then since up close the facial coloring was a bit strong changed it from Personal coloring to Natural on the HDTV settings (seems to drop some red and yellow out). Thats worked nicely - on laptop not sure how many color adjustments you can make. Agree, the landscapes on BluRay are stunning no matter what setting.


(Heehee I just love that you are watching it!)Angelic

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.

(This post was edited by Brethil on Mar 22 2013, 12:24am)


imin
Valinor


Mar 22 2013, 12:34am

Post #16 of 47 (438 views)
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It's that Thorin - cant keep myself away, haha [In reply to] Can't Post

Will have to try and change the settings - though i have no idea how! Her laptop lets you play blu-rays so i figured it would just optimise itself to the correct level - the easiest way i have found is just to move the screen to adjust levels of saturation/screen brightness Tongue


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 22 2013, 12:35am

Post #17 of 47 (431 views)
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Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

You can't get oversaturated with Thorin. Not at any time Tongue

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 22 2013, 12:36am

Post #18 of 47 (418 views)
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Blu-Ray [In reply to] Can't Post

I've watched it twice since it became available on the 12th.once was on my MacBook and one on Blu. The quality of what was on screen for the BR version was fantastic. Everything was crisp, clear, and stunning to the eye. Besides the movie being fantastic it looked fantastic.

Sorry just some rambling thoughts.



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Mar 22 2013, 12:41am

Post #19 of 47 (417 views)
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Just popped in the dvd to check it out, [In reply to] Can't Post

and watched the prologue. The image was softer (but not too soft), so the visual effects blended a little better. The colors were fine, with plenty of saturation, but there was less color variation, and they were not quite as bright. I noticed this especially in Dale, which is very colorful. The colors didn't pop as much on the dvd, which i missed-- i like the more vivid colors of blu-ray. But the one thing i couldn't stand was the very noticable edge enhancement, that horrible ghostly outline around figures and objects. That always drivess me crazy. But other than that, i thought the dvd looked fine, and would work really well on a smaller screen, like on a computer monitor or laptop. But as far as home viewing goes, on a large screen in your living room, i'd highly recommend the blu-ray for AUJ, which is the best looking blu-ray i've yet seen. It really looks fantastic.


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 22 2013, 12:43am

Post #20 of 47 (416 views)
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***laughing like Bofur***** [In reply to] Can't Post

(In reply to:)

It's that Thorin - cant keep myself away, haha

_____________________________________

Wink !!!!!!!

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 22 2013, 12:52am

Post #21 of 47 (396 views)
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Love reading them, Elessar! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really impressed too. I got a digitial copy last Saturday evening, and was so thrilled, and now I am loving the Blu-ray. I think it does translate very, very well to the format. I think it sounds amazing too, and I am enjoying the Foley work in all its little details now that I can rewind and check things out again - like Azog's metal hand swishing over his warg's fur, and all the goblin's clicking toes. A great attention to detail.

Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 22 2013, 12:55am

Post #22 of 47 (400 views)
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Well stated, my friend! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You can't get oversaturated with Thorin. Not at any time Tongue ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Nope. Never. Ever.


Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.


imin
Valinor


Mar 22 2013, 12:58am

Post #23 of 47 (395 views)
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Maybe that will make the difference [In reply to] Can't Post

as i am only on a small laptop screen - bout 14 inches so not exactly the same as a TV, lol.

I have noticed i think i prefer what i would call more natural colours (see it especially in the faces of the characters) but what others may call less bright colouration - some of you would have loved my first viewing - colour saturation and brightness of the charts :P

I am waiting to get the dvd/blu-ray proper when it comes out in EE - by that point i hope to have a bit more disposable cash as well so might treat myself to a blu-ray player, and finally live in HD - have about 400 DVD's but not 1 Blu-ray!


imin
Valinor


Mar 22 2013, 1:03am

Post #24 of 47 (389 views)
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Lol, thought you might like that :P [In reply to] Can't Post

I have watched the part up to Radagast about 5 times now - quick skip to some white council, then on to riddles in the dark, skip on to eagles then im done - movie in an hour Tongue


imin
Valinor


Mar 22 2013, 1:06am

Post #25 of 47 (394 views)
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Lol it seems to be the case [In reply to] Can't Post

I am going to buy a card board Thorin - you know the ones they have at the cinema when the movie was out and i am going to auction it for you fine women of TORn so you can have and swoon over him to your hearts content - plus i would be a millionaire Tongue

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